BuffNStuff

Okay so I tried again. Started the car and the timing was at 14 so I rotated the distributer a little bit past 10* and then connected the jumper and still nothing changed in how the car ran, I then rotated the distributer to see if my scanner values change with the crank pully and they didnt. The ecu seems to want to stay at 25* no matter what.

This is all after I disconnected my negative battery cable for about 2 minutes to reset the ecu.

While connecting the jumper wire, I also tried grounding it on the intake manifold and that didn't change anything either. I know I am getting 11.5v from the diagnostic port because I checked it.

All I know is that if I try and match the crank pully timing with my scanner, the car runs much worse and the surging comes back. If I rotate it all the way to the right, it runs better and idles down with no surging.

I found this on a Camry forum for OBDII 1998 timing, "The ECU varies the timing advance to control the idle speed. So, if you adjust the throttle, the ECU will just override it. If you put the throttle outside the range of the IDL pin in the TPS, then the ECU won't know when the engine needs to idle." I wonder if Toyota has a similar set up across all their OBDII systems and because I adjusted the throttle screw, it is preventing the ECU from knowing it needs to idle and then it overrides all timing changes?

I also found this on SupraMania.com "If you find you cannot get the timing matched up correctly then you will need to check the matchmarks on the cam and crank pulleys all line up and that the CPS is inserted correctly as per the TSRM. One other point of note is that if the TPS is incorrectly set up you may find it impossible to set the timing."

Maybe I need to reset my idle back down and play with the TPS some more.

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

what was the timing 14 on when you started it, the scanner? then you shuld have set the dizzy to 12 or so and left it and give it a chance to learn. The ecu likely keeps raising the timing because you have it turned back so far it will raise it up till it hears that knock so it knows its in the right range, but it sounds like you are like 10 degrees off.

yeah well the tps position where it idles the lowest and you will see it start to learn and idle down a few more hundred rpm's via the idle air control valve, that is the correct position. when in the wrong tps posittion where IDL is not activated it will have a high idle and won't do the fancy learning.

the scanner and ecu will never change with turning the distributor, it has no idea or way of knowing you are turning the distributor and will always display the timing the ecu thinks is correct. all that needs to be done is ecu saying same thing as crank, doesn't matter if it runs like crap, you have to reset it afterwards. The ecu should never be idling at more than 16-18 degrees advance anyways unless you have a super high idle like 12-1300 rpm's

BuffNStuff

Okay so I found out my tps was not in spec. I thought it was because it idled lowest in the position I had it in. After going out and getting a feeler gauge, and readjusting the tps, the car now responds to jumping the terminals on the diagnostic block. I looked at the crank pully timing with the pins jumped and it was at 10, and my scanner said 10* as well. So I rotated the distributor to 8* and took the jumper off.

However, I had to set the timing with the engine not fully warmed up because my air/fuel gauge indicated that it was all the way lean, and I got too scared to keep it running any longer. I do not know how to fix this lean issue. I could hear some slight popping in the exhaust.

I still need to re gap the plugs in 3 and 4 so I'll do that now.

Hopefully they are fouled and I am getting a false lean. Shouldn't the ecu be spitting out a lean code?

BuffNStuff

I can't figure out where my throttle stop screw should be at. If I adjust the stop screw do I need to readjust the tps? The smallest of a turn makes my idle go from 550 rpm to 900rpm. My scanner says the throttle is always above 10% even if it is idling below 600rpm.

I just full on replaced my spark plugs with NGK BKR5EIX plugs because mine were all fouled even though they were brand new. They come pre-gapped to .030 so hopefully these will work well. Will wait till tomorrow to see if anything changed with how the car runs.

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

likely it wont throw a lean code unless it persists for a long time and its less sensitive at idle.
It probably went lean because it got confused from all the adjustments. I would let it cool down, maybe reset it, and see what the afr's are on the next cold start and warming up.

Glad you got it to respond to the jumper, I will have to remember that one about tps position and being able to set timing.
set the timing cold thats fine just remember when you eventually get it warmed up to set it again, it should be fairly close if not good already.

Idle and that screw should only be messed with on a fully warm motor that is idling. If you screw it in too far then yes you may need to readjust the TPS, as opening the throttle plate opens the tps up some.
Yes its a very tiny amount of adjustment at a time, its a bit frustrating the first few times you do it.

800-900 in park with the a/c off is probably about where you want it fully warmed up. The throttle should not be reading 10% you may need to readjust the tps or you could even have an issue with the actual tps. I would set the idle first, then set the tps, then reset the ecu, then start it up, verify timing, and hope it all jives together. soemtimes the ecu learns funny if it learns on a hot start, but give it a few minutes it will figure out its idling lean and you can;t really hurt the motor idling for short periods of time lean in the 16-17 range, although I wouldn't let it sit at 17 for like 30 minutes or something like that.

If you ever wondered why they put paint on the tps bolts and the idle screw bolts and such is to help when putting it back together to get these adjustments close because they play havoc on the EFI system when out of spec, but most of the time if you don;t have a wideband you wouldn't notice, and the ecu will do the best it can to sort it out. IF you get everything right it works really well. I think you are just a little bit of fiddling away from getting it perfect.

I ended up turning in my throttle screw just like a half turn where it bumped it up from like 500 to 900 rpm';s. I have a heavy clutch so I like it a bit higher on idle, 700 just makes it that more likely to stall If I am not paying attention to the giant on/off switch, oh wait I mean my 6 puck clutch and extreme pressure plate.

BuffNStuff

I played with the throttle screw and tps for about 3 hours today. I learned how important that little nut is on the throttle screw. I knew it was there to prevent it from moving, but man does it move easily if there is no nut on it. I drove the car around the block and after a 1/4 mile the screw had vibrated itself down so that I was idling at 2800 rpm! I think I have the throttle and idle adjusted about right now. I have it idling at 900rpm and the ecu SLOWLY let the A/F ratio climb down to 14.5-15.5.

I finally gave it some gas and punched it and I noticed 2 things.

1. The transmission does not kick down...like at all in response to throttle changes. I mash the gas and it just stays in 3rd or 4th.

2. After I noticed what happened above, I put the transmission in low and shifted it manually. It will get into boost but above 5 psi, it sputters and kinda falls on its face. Also, I only have 3 O2 sensors correct? Because I looked at the cat (sounds like there is a leak somewhere) and the sensor is in front of the cat. Shouldn't the sensor sit behind the cat? (It's dark out and I didn't see a fourth sensor further down stream)

I am getting frustrated. I have been fiddling with this car nearly everyday for 3 weeks!!

ashtray

iTrader: (12)

If you're OBDII which you are, there should be 3 O2 sensors. 2 right near the cat, and one basically under the passenger floorboard which connects up into and on the right side of the center console where a passengers knee should be about. You are extremely close. Is your TT ecu auto or std.?

BuffNStuff

That's what I thought. I think the reason my A/F is lean and my ecu is trying to fight it is because the guys at the shop I had it at put the down stream O2 sensor IN FRONT of the cat. So now I have 3 O2 sensors in front of the cat and it's confusing my ecu. SON OF A...

My sc has the stock automatic and I have an auto tt ecu. I have 2 CELs for the auto transmission, but I don't think anyone has figured out how to make it work like stock.

spoolxexo

iTrader: (4)

There is a good chance one of your shift solenoids are shorted. Common problem.

I would like to verify how anyone got the tach to work with 1zz coils. IGF to TACO ? How do you guys do it?

SCereal

iTrader: (4)

If I'm not mistaken, the downstream cat does nothing for calculating AFR or running of the engine, it's there solely to make sure the cat is there and functioning properly.

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

Spool have you done the resistor mod on the cluster? IF you have tie all the IGF's together to get the 6 pulses and tap into that wire then for the tach signal. I think if you haven't done the reistor mod, then try just one of the IGF's (probably coil 1). haven't tried them but that is what I would try from looking at the stuff.

Buff sounds like another small wiring issue for the trans. can you tell what the trans codes are?
I had posted on how to fix the lock up converter but that won't explain your issue, so you have also an solenoid issue it sounds like. basically you are doing a custom harness re-wire at this point since there are so many differences for odb2.
The 3rd o2 sensor shouldn't affect how it runs, its just there for monitoring the cat. you can space it out some with a spark plug fouler so it won't trip the CEL if it is.

as to your sputtering problem, sounds like plugs to me. the ignition system has to be up to par the way these ecu's run rich.
BKR7eIX gapped at .032 (how they come). All of you guys on vvti or gte coils should be buying and dropping these in. you can also use the less expensive copper BKR7E also gapped at .032 but you will be changing them every 10k or so depending on how much turbo abuse they suffer, the gaps tend to get larger with time.

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

I have a question for you odb2 guys? what did you do to install the injectors in the odb2 lower runner?
the 96+ injectors have a different shape at the bottom, so are you guys swapping to the older runners or just sticking them in and hoping for the best. if you just stick them in you may have an air leak right there at the injectors cause that hose coming over from the idle air valve the runs to the rail needs to be sealed against the injector seals, and the older injectors don't have those seals.

could that be the cause of some of the issues the odb2 guys are having.
let me know what you did Buff? if you are not sure then take a picture of whatever injector you can get a good look at where it meets the rail.
If its not sealing ont he upper o-ring, then you need to delete that line coming from the idle valve, put a cap on it there, and on the other end of the hose on the rail, cap that off also. that will stop all the leaks cause most of the 2jzge injectors do not have the upper seal to seal the air part of the rail on the odb2, so stop the leak upstream at the idle valve.

BuffNStuff

Here is a pic of my 550cc injectors from oside tiger.



Also for anyone else with a 1997+ car, the resistor you need to jump to get the tach to work is R2. Our clusters are very different than the earlier years. You need to not only remove the cluster, but you need to remove like 15-20 screws to separate the outer circuit cover and the actual circuit boards. You must remove the 2 ribbons from their connectors in order to get the cover off. The R2 resistor looks like the resistors you are supposed to jump in the pre-97 cars, it will just say R2 next to it instead of r109, or whatever. I know this works because I did It last night and my tach now works!

I am not sure about 1998+ cars. They may have a different cluster as well, but as far as I know, 1997 cluster is different than every previous years cluster.

Also for my spark plugs, I am using the bkr6iex which came gapped at .030. I don't understand why I am sputtering in boost if I have these plugs. I had read that .030 should be a low enough gap?

I am using used coil packs. Could this be my issue? Or maybe because I am on the stock fuel pump?

My transmission codes are:

P1760
P1765

ashtray

iTrader: (12)

Do you have the 12v mod on the fuel pump ecu?

spoolxexo

iTrader: (4)

Well apparently the Aristo ECU has a pin called "TACO" that is missing from the GE ECU.

I imagine if that pin fed the dash it would work with zz coils, no?

This is my 2nd working TT ECU swap, thanks to you.
Luckily after the first fiasco, I have learned things like the GTE TPS being pinned in reverse, and not to blame a high idle on the IDL switch, when there is daylight shining between the two halfs of the intake manifold!

If the 2zz coils can report rpm without an ignitor, we're in business.

I have seen some Supra Guys do the 2zz's wiring into the GTE ignitor, and they can get the RPM.