anyone actually tried making a dual stage airbag work??
05-05-08, 03:27 PM
#1
anyone actually tried making a dual stage airbag work??
*********UPDATED JUNE 9th 2010***********
While this bag is still in my car and seems to be doing just fine (hasn't gone off), After finding out the following info in another thread I want to put a link here so people can know the alternatives.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-...e-airbags.html
If I had known about this, I would have probably gone this route, but you will need to buy the single stage airbag to transplant the module, or if you are 98+ you already have it (dunno if the pre 98 single stage modules will work, maybe someone can check).
Seems like a much less risky alternative without having to rewire anything.
*********UPDATED JUNE 6th 2008***********
Dual stage airbag was successfully installed in single stage car running only one igniter.
May be possible to run both stages, but I did not want that so someone else can experiment with that.
See page 2 for pix
==================================================================
ooriginal post:
Ok, i looked through all the threads and it seems no one really attempted this due to incompatibility.
I have been doing some research and from what i have gathered it is actually quite possible but there is one minor sacrifice (or benifit depending how you look at it).
I looked through all the design info and whatnot for dual stage airbags.
there is a primary and secondary chamber (Yes i know we all know this)
And there is a complex ECU that decides which chambers to deploy and a delay.
In the event the ECU decides its what they call a lower end collision, the ECU will send a detonate signal to the primary chamber which operates exactly like our single stages. HOWEVER The primary chamber going off by itself only results in 50-80% of the force of a full airbag deployment
In the case of a higher end collision, the ECU either sends a signal to the primary and secondary bags simultaneously (greatest force), or it will delay the deployment of the second chamber, resulting in slightly less force (time of delay calculated by ecu.
My point in all this is that the airbag pins function the same, it is the airbag ecu doing all the other deciding means.
If you were willing to have a dual stage airbag that can only deploy the primary chamber (50-80% force) I don't see why you couldnt do that.
Obviously you should not be trying to combine the chambers onto one harness or something like that (no no!) but i dont see why you couldnt have one hooked up only.
sure your dash light might be on, but the idea of an airbag hitting me with less than full force sounds better to me than no airbag at all or a 10 year old airbag hitting me in the face at 100% force.
I have not attempted or tried any of this so please dont go and try it and blame me, i am merely trying to get other peoples advice and info on this and should be used as informational only. I accept no liability for what anyone does to whomevers cars.
While this bag is still in my car and seems to be doing just fine (hasn't gone off), After finding out the following info in another thread I want to put a link here so people can know the alternatives.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-...e-airbags.html
If I had known about this, I would have probably gone this route, but you will need to buy the single stage airbag to transplant the module, or if you are 98+ you already have it (dunno if the pre 98 single stage modules will work, maybe someone can check).
Seems like a much less risky alternative without having to rewire anything.
*********UPDATED JUNE 6th 2008***********
Dual stage airbag was successfully installed in single stage car running only one igniter.
May be possible to run both stages, but I did not want that so someone else can experiment with that.
See page 2 for pix
==================================================================
ooriginal post:
Ok, i looked through all the threads and it seems no one really attempted this due to incompatibility.
I have been doing some research and from what i have gathered it is actually quite possible but there is one minor sacrifice (or benifit depending how you look at it).
I looked through all the design info and whatnot for dual stage airbags.
there is a primary and secondary chamber (Yes i know we all know this)
And there is a complex ECU that decides which chambers to deploy and a delay.
In the event the ECU decides its what they call a lower end collision, the ECU will send a detonate signal to the primary chamber which operates exactly like our single stages. HOWEVER The primary chamber going off by itself only results in 50-80% of the force of a full airbag deployment
In the case of a higher end collision, the ECU either sends a signal to the primary and secondary bags simultaneously (greatest force), or it will delay the deployment of the second chamber, resulting in slightly less force (time of delay calculated by ecu.
My point in all this is that the airbag pins function the same, it is the airbag ecu doing all the other deciding means.
If you were willing to have a dual stage airbag that can only deploy the primary chamber (50-80% force) I don't see why you couldnt do that.
Obviously you should not be trying to combine the chambers onto one harness or something like that (no no!) but i dont see why you couldnt have one hooked up only.
sure your dash light might be on, but the idea of an airbag hitting me with less than full force sounds better to me than no airbag at all or a 10 year old airbag hitting me in the face at 100% force.
I have not attempted or tried any of this so please dont go and try it and blame me, i am merely trying to get other peoples advice and info on this and should be used as informational only. I accept no liability for what anyone does to whomevers cars.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 06-10-10 at 04:13 PM.
05-05-08, 09:39 PM
#3
that would be awesome if you could find some info on it. i couldnt find anything concrete as to if the connector would fit or not, or had to be remade like when we have to use that yellow adapter or change the connector.
It would be good to find out if the connector on the main plug of a dual stage airbag was 2 wires like ours.
the single stage bags seem to be pretty scarce and/or highly priced. plus i figure you could get a much fresher looking bag off a newer car this way.
**edit** lol, i really think it is possible, but the real question is which one of the two plugs is the primary inflator. the red or the black one... at least the odds are better than vegas
It would be good to find out if the connector on the main plug of a dual stage airbag was 2 wires like ours.
the single stage bags seem to be pretty scarce and/or highly priced. plus i figure you could get a much fresher looking bag off a newer car this way.
**edit** lol, i really think it is possible, but the real question is which one of the two plugs is the primary inflator. the red or the black one... at least the odds are better than vegas
Last edited by Ali SC3; 05-05-08 at 09:51 PM.
05-05-08, 10:19 PM
#4
at this web page
http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/dec2002/collision.htm
under Dual-Stage Inflator Module Service Precautions, it says technicians can set off gm dual stage airbags by using that connector or pairing together the wires. very interesting...
http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/dec2002/collision.htm
under Dual-Stage Inflator Module Service Precautions, it says technicians can set off gm dual stage airbags by using that connector or pairing together the wires. very interesting...
05-05-08, 10:34 PM
#6
thanks for the concern, I definately do not plan on playing around with any airbags nor do i recommend anyone doing so. I want to do the proper research because there are instructions out there for people who repair these things everyday. it just needs to be done properly. and 1SICKSC it is apparently not illegal to disable your own airbag, and were not talking about disabling any here.
its not like the sensors are built into the airbag. it just takes a pulse.
you could drag your foot across your carpet while holding onto the terminals and probably deploy it. Very dangerous and simple
its not like the sensors are built into the airbag. it just takes a pulse.
you could drag your foot across your carpet while holding onto the terminals and probably deploy it. Very dangerous and simple
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05-06-08, 02:32 PM
#11
ok, just figured something new out.
In order to fire a chamber a pulse is generated. This pulse is generated in reference of the resistance of the ignitor.
so for poeple who dont have an airbag at all, you have to put in a resistor to get rid of the airbag light. same physics behind modern cars that have an on/off switch. in off it just switches over to a resistor.
basically what im saying is, whether to hook up only one stage or both stages will be readily apparent once you attatch it because when the resistance is right the dash light bulb will go away. if the light is on then its simply the other way around.
Interestingly enough, if you run two resistors in parralell you effectively reduce the resistance in half (if they are equal resistance). im pretty sure the same pulse would ignite both of them, but the dash light would not be happy.
What I am aiming for here, is if the dash light is happy with the airbag then i am happy with it too.
In order to fire a chamber a pulse is generated. This pulse is generated in reference of the resistance of the ignitor.
so for poeple who dont have an airbag at all, you have to put in a resistor to get rid of the airbag light. same physics behind modern cars that have an on/off switch. in off it just switches over to a resistor.
basically what im saying is, whether to hook up only one stage or both stages will be readily apparent once you attatch it because when the resistance is right the dash light bulb will go away. if the light is on then its simply the other way around.
Interestingly enough, if you run two resistors in parralell you effectively reduce the resistance in half (if they are equal resistance). im pretty sure the same pulse would ignite both of them, but the dash light would not be happy.
What I am aiming for here, is if the dash light is happy with the airbag then i am happy with it too.
05-07-08, 09:35 PM
#13
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Wow! I love the idea of being able to use a newer bag, but man I just can't get over those commercials where they test these bags over and over again to make sure they're right. One mistake on the install and it could be the last mistake you ever make. Anyone want to work part time as a crash test dummy? Thanks for all the work to try to figure this out. I'm curious even if I'm too chicken to try it.
05-08-08, 07:24 AM
#14
i already ordered my dual stage airbag. I will update you guys as soon as I have it working in the car. As an electrical person myself i am still very cautious about approaching this and I will be using a wrist grounding strap to ground any static charges.
05-10-08, 01:29 PM
#15
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I don't think that making the dash light go out is the correct way to determine whether or not the two stage bag is connected correctly.
You may well find that the resistance values of a two stage bag are different to a single stage bag. I would be looking for the wiring diagrams and specs to see which wires activate which stage and see if the resistance values can be found. You may be in the position where the dash light stays on.
Working with airbags isn't that difficult, ensure that there is no power applied to any circuit and that you aren't in the way of the bag deployment. Especially if you are on an angle as this could actually kill you.
The connector plugs on the bags are designed to prevent the pins from being exposed when they are disconnected so it's difficult to accidentally set them off. I would be extremely careful when modifying and wiring harness for the airbag system.
Good luck with your project.
Matt.
You may well find that the resistance values of a two stage bag are different to a single stage bag. I would be looking for the wiring diagrams and specs to see which wires activate which stage and see if the resistance values can be found. You may be in the position where the dash light stays on.
Working with airbags isn't that difficult, ensure that there is no power applied to any circuit and that you aren't in the way of the bag deployment. Especially if you are on an angle as this could actually kill you.
The connector plugs on the bags are designed to prevent the pins from being exposed when they are disconnected so it's difficult to accidentally set them off. I would be extremely careful when modifying and wiring harness for the airbag system.
Good luck with your project.
Matt.