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Lexus & a 3 Row Crossover? Possibly a RX350/450hXL?

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Old 07-17-13, 01:53 PM   #16
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Corrado, the current RAV4 is considerably bigger than when it first came out. The RX has grown a bit too. The first gen was 180 inches, same as the current RAV4 (179.9). Now the RX is up to 187 inches. According to your numbers, that puts the NX closer to the first gen RX size. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
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Old 07-17-13, 02:30 PM   #17
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Corrado, the current RAV4 is considerably bigger than when it first came out. The RX has grown a bit too. The first gen was 180 inches, same as the current RAV4 (179.9). Now the RX is up to 187 inches. According to your numbers, that puts the NX closer to the first gen RX size. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
The current Audi Q3 is 172.6 inches long and the BMW X1 is 176.5 inches long. Perhaps the NX will come somewhere in between those numbers and hopefully closer to the X1.
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Old 07-17-13, 03:25 PM   #18
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I agree with MjThind. BMW has the X1, X3 and X5. Audi has the Q3, Q5 and Q7. What does Lexus have which competes in those classes? Do they need to compete in those
Right now both the GX and LX are clearly differentiated from other 3-row SUVs on the market and while they maybe don't sell much in the US there is clearly a niche with enthusiasts who buy these.

The first issue is that LC/Prado are probably not going unibody any time soon because while it might win some sales in US they will loose big time worldwide. So unlikely to happen. What GX/LX are going to be based off of then? GX might go Highlander but there is absolutely nothing big enough unibody for LX?

The second issue is by going unibody they will loose all their differentiation value and pretty much all the current model enthusiasts. Would a new model sell well enough to offset it? Who knows. But the bigger issue is they will now have to compete in a crossover SUV class with everybody else on a level ground. Do they really want to do this? Can they keep their legendary reliability and dependability without the platform constantly tested in a harshest conditions elsewhere in the world?
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Old 07-17-13, 03:31 PM   #19
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See third world countries
Perhaps you should ask yourself how too much dependency on US market played out for some US car manufacturers during a recession.
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Old 07-17-13, 05:13 PM   #20
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Right now both the GX and LX are clearly differentiated from other 3-row SUVs on the market and while they maybe don't sell much in the US there is clearly a niche with enthusiasts who buy these.

The first issue is that LC/Prado are probably not going unibody any time soon because while it might win some sales in US they will loose big time worldwide. So unlikely to happen. What GX/LX are going to be based off of then? GX might go Highlander but there is absolutely nothing big enough unibody for LX?

The second issue is by going unibody they will loose all their differentiation value and pretty much all the current model enthusiasts. Would a new model sell well enough to offset it? Who knows. But the bigger issue is they will now have to compete in a crossover SUV class with everybody else on a level ground. Do they really want to do this? Can they keep their legendary reliability and dependability without the platform constantly tested in a harshest conditions elsewhere in the world?
It's why I say they won't drop either anyways GX and LX are for separate markets GX is a mid-size luxury SUV and the LX is large-size SUV. LX competes with Range Rover and G-Class maybe Escalade. GX IMO is more of a niche I haven't seen any mid size body-in-frame luxury SUV's on the market, GX comparable with many vehicles in price point but not similarity like the LX...
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Old 07-17-13, 05:42 PM   #21
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It's why I say they won't drop either anyways GX and LX are for separate markets GX is a mid-size luxury SUV and the LX is large-size SUV. LX competes with Range Rover and G-Class maybe Escalade. GX IMO is more of a niche I haven't seen any mid size body-in-frame luxury SUV's on the market, GX comparable with many vehicles in price point but not similarity like the LX...
Breeding models to satisfy certain domestic markets (regional model) probably has more downsides from a strategic point of view for a global company than many realize. Just remember how many models GM had versus Toyota and which one went bankrupt.

I'm sure they would have never done NX if they weren't sure it was going to sell well in a global market.
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Old 07-17-13, 06:52 PM   #22
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Lexus pursuing the NX is really playing catch-up to other luxury manufacturers at this point. Aside from the Audi and BMW options, other Japanese manufacturers already have compact SUVs available for a while now. Examples are the Acura RDX and Infiniti EX350, both of which are Rav4-sized and are relatively sportier than the RX.

Infiniti introduced the JX350 last year which is equivalent in price and options to the RX but is longer and has a 3rd row. The FX remains a 5-passenger midsize SUV. Acura's MDX has always had a 3rd row but its size is somewhere between RX and GX.
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Old 07-17-13, 09:11 PM   #23
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It's why I say they won't drop either anyways GX and LX are for separate markets GX is a mid-size luxury SUV and the LX is large-size SUV. LX competes with Range Rover and G-Class maybe Escalade. GX IMO is more of a niche I haven't seen any mid size body-in-frame luxury SUV's on the market, GX comparable with many vehicles in price point but not similarity like the LX...
For the GX/LX competition you have to look at the Land Rover LR4, Range Rover Sport along with the Mercedes G class vehicles, though not necessarily on price. Throw in cheaper priced Toyota (Prado, Land Cruiser, FJ, 4Runner, Sequoia), Infiniti (QX56), Nissan (Armada, Xterra), Jeep (Wrangler), Ford (Expedition), and a variety of GM products (Suburban, Yukon, Tahoe and Escalade) for good measure. There may be more out there but those come to mind at the moment. Which competes with which I still need to sort out. Granted, not all can be considered luxury SUVs, however, most come with enough to be considered depending on needs.
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Old 07-17-13, 09:34 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Quadro View Post
Right now both the GX and LX are clearly differentiated from other 3-row SUVs on the market and while they maybe don't sell much in the US there is clearly a niche with enthusiasts who buy these.

The first issue is that LC/Prado are probably not going unibody any time soon because while it might win some sales in US they will loose big time worldwide. So unlikely to happen. What GX/LX are going to be based off of then? GX might go Highlander but there is absolutely nothing big enough unibody for LX?

The second issue is by going unibody they will loose all their differentiation value and pretty much all the current model enthusiasts. Would a new model sell well enough to offset it? Who knows. But the bigger issue is they will now have to compete in a crossover SUV class with everybody else on a level ground. Do they really want to do this? Can they keep their legendary reliability and dependability without the platform constantly tested in a harshest conditions elsewhere in the world?
Those are good points. Like I stated previous, I understand the capabilities of each of these vehicles and their heritage. Wouldn't these sell just as well only as Toyota and not with a Lexus badge especially for just the Prado/GX? Am thinking that Toyota/Lexus would still go along producing the Prado, Land Cruiser and LX and possibly drop the GX from Lexus and replacing just that one vehicle some time in the future. Could not find global sales numbers for the GX so I am unsure how important this vehicle is to Lexus as it is currently configured. It is funny to see that the Lexus LX does outsell the Toyota Land Cruiser here in the US, based on 2012 sales numbers, by nearly double.

The NX makes a great deal of sense due to possible sales numbers in Europe. For the US, it makes more sense than perhaps the CT (17,673 units sold in the US for 2012) as small wagons and hatches do not sell to the degree they do across the pond. Make a CUV/SUV and it sells well here. Getting that way elsewhere as well and especially in these smaller sizes. New vehicles such as these will need to sell on the global market or not at all. As the CT is a hybrid only vehicle it is definitely a niche product. They could get away with putting a small diesel in it for many markets to sell more.

If Lexus does go with a unibody larger than the RX, I guess we might be looking at something along the lines of the Infiniti JX (or whatever they are calling them these days since everything is a QX). Take a look at the 2014 Infiniti QX60 Hybrid.

http://www.infinitiusa.com/now/futur...s/qx60-hybrid/

Now, if that was a Lexus configuration I think it would sell very well in many markets and perhaps much better than the GX at least here in the States. Believe the Infiniti is based off the new unibody Pathfinder. Perhaps this new Lexus shares its platform with a larger Highlander. All the pieces are there to include the hybrid drivetrain. Sculpt a new body and interior, revise the suspension and you are well on your way. Personally, would like to see more storage space behind the rear seats than the Highlander has at the moment.

The Pathfinder, IMO, is no longer the rough and ready truck it once was in its youth especially with all models coming with a CVT transmission and it now being of unibody construction. I feel there will always be a place for a body-on-frame luxury SUV with dual-range capabilities. Just a matter if they will be financially feasible in the future.
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Old 07-18-13, 07:35 AM   #25
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I seems to be having trouble finding global GX numbers too. The global LX sales were from Lexus PR Europe tweet

https://twitter.com/Lexus_EU/statuses/295897879485247489

(I have no idea why the link above appears the way it does as I can't fix it)

Who would have thought LX sold 3x as many units as GS450h globally by looking at US-only numbers? There is one LX sold somewhere for every 6 RXs sold.

Regarding Infiniti JX -- it's indeed looks based on Nissan Pathfinder after it got redesigned:

Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by Quadro; 07-18-13 at 07:45 AM..
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Old 07-18-13, 12:08 PM   #26
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For the GX/LX competition you have to look at the Land Rover LR4, Range Rover Sport along with the Mercedes G class vehicles, though not necessarily on price. Throw in cheaper priced Toyota (Prado, Land Cruiser, FJ, 4Runner, Sequoia), Infiniti (QX56), Nissan (Armada, Xterra), Jeep (Wrangler), Ford (Expedition), and a variety of GM products (Suburban, Yukon, Tahoe and Escalade) for good measure. There may be more out there but those come to mind at the moment. Which competes with which I still need to sort out. Granted, not all can be considered luxury SUVs, however, most come with enough to be considered depending on needs.
I was talking in the luxury mid-size body-on-frame SUV segment. I guess RR Sport is one and LR4 is too but not much in the segment to choose from if you want a luxury mid-size body-on-frame SUV. More brand choice in the large body-on-frame SUV segment...
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Old 07-22-13, 04:23 PM   #27
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So new developments on this story maybe they will be keeping the GX nameplate and converting to a CUV after all, here is the link read it...
http://lexusenthusiast.com/2012/05/2...crossover-cuv/
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Old 07-22-13, 05:15 PM   #28
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So new developments on this story maybe they will be keeping the GX nameplate and converting to a CUV after all, here is the link read it...
http://lexusenthusiast.com/2012/05/2...crossover-cuv/
Have you seen the 2014 Toyota Highlander yet?

http://www.toyota.com/upcoming-vehicles/highlander.html

Now, imagine this with a Lexus logo on it. Much like what Infiniti did with the Pathfinder/JX35, this is what you have to forward to in any future 3-row GX replacement.
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Old 07-23-13, 11:44 PM   #29
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7 seater RX is unlikely. But the replacement of GX460 might have a much more drastic changes and might follow the likes of the Infiniti JX/Pathfinder which essentially is a stretched version of the Murano. Where Lexus GX replacement technically could use the newly restyled Highlander (7seater) chassis and of course with Lexus unique Exterior and interior design and call it a day. Chopping the V8 powerplant and make it GX350 and GX450h would be perfect for anyone who wants the 7 seat capacity but with all the luxury and refinement of a Lexus CUV. The GX460 is great SUV with real off road capability. But nowadays do people really go offroading that much? With most people buying these thing to just cruise around Blvd is just wasteful. If they move the GX line towards CUV then it can be priced more competitively and save on cost since it's not based on anything else Toyota brings to North American market anyways. (Save the Landcruiser Prado JDM market)
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Old 07-24-13, 03:45 AM   #30
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7 seater is almost certainly not going to happen. There is no market for such vehicles. Ive yet to see an Audi Q7 customer who bought a Q7 because it was a 7 seater. The seats back there are very very cramped, anyone over 5 foot 4 WILL struggle. Obviously the GL is a completely different beast.

Over here in the UK, the Lexus RX does NOT compete with the Audi Q5. Instead it competes with the Q7, mainly because the Q5 is very small inside compared to an RX while the space in a Q7 is closer.

If Lexus did choose to add a 7 seater there will be many problems they would have to face. Firstly, they have to add enough length on the RX to be able to accommodate an extra 2 seats as well as luggage. In that case there would have to be a compromise somewhere. Adding a lot of length will increase the comfort and luggage space in the back BUT will increase the weight.

This will lead to most likely having to develop a new engine, something with at least 350hp combined, be it hybrid or petrol just to haul the thing around. Lexus wont be making diesels, therefore, they wont be able to get away with a low hp, high torque engine such as the ones in the GL AND Q7. Next, Lexus would most likely sell very few models in Europe and the UK of the "long" 7 seater mainly because itd be too big for our roads.

If Lexus decide to add little length, the 2 backseats will be uncomfortable and cramped, something that Lexus WILL get a lot of hammering for.
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