wlpncp

Well, after spending days on this forum and on other web sites like Edmunds, Cars.com,True Car and AAA, plus dealer web sites in MD, TX, and GA, I am about ready to put my Lexus search on hold indefinitely.

Reasons:
(1) I visited my local dealer for the second time on Monday and requested that they search other dealer inventories for a RX with my desired options. They agreed to do so, but now five days later I have heard nothing from them, not even a status call like "We are still searching." How long should it take for such a search and a response from the dealer?

(2) I was about ready to buy one off the lot with the NAV system (even though I didn't want or need it), but after reading today's thread on the NAV system (update issues, getting to Wal-Mart, etc.), I want the NAV system even less. Not worried too much about NAV and resale value. We keep our cars for 8-10 years.

(3) After reading so many posts on this forum showing MSRP discounts of 8 to 12 %, I have little love for my dealer's offer off 4.5% off MSRP for the model with NAV (although the dealer's offer is in line with Cars.com, etc.).

(4) I know I could drive out of state if the desired car at the desired price were to exist, but that is just not worth the hassle to me.

I think I'll just go buy a Subaru Outback (good CR ratings) and be done with it!

Thanks for letting me vent my frustrations.

4482

I've had both a 2005 and a 2010 RX both with NAV. I don't find the Lexus NAV as bad as what has been recently written on this forum. I've traveled from Ohio to both Seattle and San Diego on the west coast, and have taken two trips to Florida with no problems. This does not include all the short trips using the NAV in between.

I just upgraded my 2010 NAV version 8.1 to the current 12.1 because of a trip coming up from Ohio to Key West, and then around Florida for a total of no doubt over 3000 miles. I thought it about time to upgrade.

Keep in mind on these forums you hear from mostly the vocal minority and not the silent happy majority !

dwlink

I've yet to drive in a car with a nav system as good as google maps. Given the so-so user interface and the difficulty of programming in customized routes coupled with the fact that you have to pay a few $100 to update obsolete maps is outrageous.

I'd hope to see more luxury cars go the Tesla route and give me a giant over-sized tablet-like touch screen. Then just integrate some apps such as Google maps that could be tethered to a smart phone or synced when the car is parked at home over your wifi.

If not, just give me a nice cradle to dock my tablet to and make an app for the car where I can access all the vehicle information, climate controls, navigation, communications, entertainment, cameras/pdc, etc. Geez tablets are a destructive technology for the current interfaces in cars!

LexBob2

I had a 2007 amd 2010 Lexus with NAV and found both to work well with no major issues. Both had minor glitches but IMO all systems to to one extent or another. Nether in any way were deal breakers.

We now have an Audi which has Google maps, POI's, Street View etc. It's a nice system but there are features from my last Lexus NAV that I miss. I think that will haapen any time you change though.

Woodrow

As a poster in the "I can't find Wal-Mart" thread, i think I may need to make myself a bit more clear. I have no issues with the navigation system in the RX! Any anomalies like the one I experienced looking for a Sam's Club in Rapid City, SD are the exception. I also believe you would find similar issues on just about ANY navigation system. I know I did with previous Garmin maps. Additionally, I believe there are other considerations when considering the fully integrated Nav system that you may want to investigate. personally, we use the Nav system on a regular basis, and although the price seems a bit steep, we still think it's worth the investment when you consider the additional benefits and increased resale value.

My only issue with the Lexus Nav, is the way they handle map upgrades.

BertL

I'm sorry you've become discouraged.

I would go to another dealer. Your sales person and/or dealer you're working with apparently don't care to go the distance. If you know exactly what you want, and having a sales relationship is not as important to you, perhaps consider working through your Credit Union, AAA or Costco or something to have them search for the best deal for you...

I agree with previous posters here on the Nav. Forums like this allow anyone to voice an opinion, but as has been suggested, there is also a lot of lurkers and the "silent majority" you never hear from. As I said in another post, in my previous business days, the statistic was a dissatisfied person tells 10 people, a satisfied one only 1 other. Anyway, in my experience with Lexus Nav on 4 different vehicles (as well as Nav on my 2009 BMW) -- are they GREAT? No. Are they HORRIBLE? No. Do they do the basic job? Absolutely. Would I prefer Nav technology that used say Google Maps? Perhaps, IF I could afford the data plans and had confidence that data connection or the route guidance would be available even when that cellular connection was not available (I do travel in areas where it's spotty at best). Could you instead use a Garmin or something else in your vehicle? Yes. You need to also consider that Nav with Lexus as well as other brands does not just give you Navigation capability, but the way it's packaged, Nav comes with other "upgrades" or things you can't otherwise get. Are those important to you? I don't know. For me, I'll continue to have Nav on each of my vehicles, and I watch with interest as technologies are evolving with brands adding Internet App capabilities alongside it in their vehicles. I have tended to only update the map itself once, perhaps twice, in the 5-7 years I own each vehicle, and I acknowledge that with keeping my rides a bit longer than some, the Nav technology will become dated, or even outdated -- but that's OK with me. I have set my own expectations appropriately, I believe.

Discounts. My suggestion is don't get so hung up on it. You need to decide what is right for you, e.g. are you willing to work on the deal via the internet or drive to TX as others have suggested to a big dealership? It seems like that isn't what you want to do, and that's fine, but that also means you've perhaps made a decision you won't get the biggest discount from the biggest US dealer either. More importantly perhaps is, some people get great deals, others pay closer to MSRP, and some like me don't like or want to haggle extensively, so develop a feel of what I believe is reasonable for the dealer I want to work with as well as myself, and THAT becomes what's good for me -- something between MSRP and the walloping deals I sometimes read about. I never, ever talk about percentages off and the like on forums like this, as there are simply too many variables involved and while I want to believe everyone here is honest and giving their best advice, is there any real way for you to tell that is the case and it could apply to your situation -- it's sort of like being out with the guys drinking and talking -- does the conversation always stay 100% truthful and on-point or as things loosen up do the comments vary a bit more? ;-)

My last suggestion -- forums like this are great for research and to get help on a specific situation, but you can also get too many opinions or go into "analysis paralysis". Make a list for yourself of pros and cons on buying both a new Lexus and a Subaru, and write down the priorities you have of exactly what you do and don't need or want. Make your decision and move forward from there. That's what I do for every major decision or purchase in my life including my RX450h and even my new SLK250 that is now in production. Others may not agree with your priorities or decisions -- that's OK too. It's your money and decision that matters.

Good luck.

Droid13

I'm going to basically say "yea, what those other guys said". I've had a few different systems too, and none are perfect, but the Lexus one works fairly well overall. I too think nothing beats Google Maps, but I use the RX one because I always hated the portable mounted or phone ones simply because of the hassle and cosmetic issues of the portable mount/cables. I'm really seriously considering getting that VAISTECH system that lets you integrate your phone (and thusly, Google Maps) directly to the RX navigation screen. The best of both worlds!

GRAYM

There is another option, Lexus dealers use the RX for loaners...we just got a 2012 loaner with 7K on it and in perfect condition. With all options you could think of...and yes it has the nav...and I agree it stinks so we always take our Garmin just in case. Towson Lexus in Maryland gave us a great deal!

vlad_a

No need to give up. As overpriced as Nav is, it does perform basic functions. It is also integrated and looks much better on the interior than a handheld ever will. The upside is that you get a backup camera and an upgraded stereo, which is surprisingly good.

I had a similar story with my local Lexus dealer that sold me 2 Lexuses before. The salesperson never called me back and after 3 visits there, I gave up on the dealer.

I went online on Cars.com and found all of RXs for sale in the 300 mile area. I e-mailed sellers with a description of what I was looking for. I did not use a real phone number because I don't want pointless phone calls. Out of a couple dozen dealers, I found 2 that had competent internet sales people (read willing to make a deal). The one in Philadelphia gave a price that was $1,100 lower than what another local dealer could do. So I drove to Philly and got my new Lexus there.

I owned an Outback in the past (51 weeks). It was a fun car. But to give you a baseline, my complaints about torque steer in RX (normal for the platform) and Nav (again typical of any OEM) would be so miniscule, they would never get posted.

The two are measured on completely different levels and cost appropriately. Is the extra money spent on RX worth it? For its intended purpose, it is.

wlpncp

Thanks, BertL, for your detailed and excellent response. Think I could use you for my therapist on other issues too! Think I'll do the search one more time and also give the local dealer one more try at getting the RX I want. I really do want this car, but am not ready to drive all over the country for it. Thanks again.

sightdev

1. don't be a wimp, go shopping online for acceptable radius you will travel to purchase your dream.

2. who cares about Walmart, I can find Target anywhere in NE without a problem.

3. depends on your demographic/region. it's all about supply and demand. usually large cities will have "more". discounts are specific and it doesn't apply to all model/packages. its' all about supply and demand and timing.

4. don't need to. search inventory online and select your acceptable radius and negotiate price online and save ton of time and money.

kitlz

I'm glad you're giving the local dealer one more shot. Make sure you let them know it's their final opportunity to find what you want or else you're walking. And no, you don't have to drive all over the country. They can reroute an RX in transit, if not to your local dealer, then maybe to another dealer nearby.

Plumlaker

Have you considered special ordering a vehicle exactly the way you want it? I was faced with the same issue of not being able to find a 450h with the Levinson audio system. I decided that I would not give in this time so I did a special order with the equipment that I wanted. I was told it would probably be about a 3 month process and was given a February 4th build date which should put it arriving within the estimated time. I also was able to get a decent deal, especially or a special order which was $500 above invoice which I thought was fair. Good luck with your search!

shaolin

iTrader: (2)

And wait till the last weeked of each month if you're not in a hurry.

UCSB

I own the RX and the Outback. I use the RX like a luxury car and the Outback for fun adventures. While the vehicles have quite a bit of overlap, they are different enough that you should really understand why you are buying one over the other. I'm retired and fun adventures wins out over luxury and my Outback gets about 3x the use of the RX. Here is my take on your four issues:

(1) Just go back in and work with your dealer or other dealers. You have the responsibility to keep your search for a new car moving.
(2) NAV is a modern paradox. Not really needed, but integrated into the car. I have found that the system on my 450h has handled everything well in some complex situations. Outside of the cost, I would not worry about getting it. On the Outback do not get it ... it is a truly bad system on that car and a waste of money.
(3) Just forget about the really high discounts. They are not available in all locations at all times. I don't remember hearing about high discounts in TN. High discounts may have loyalty cash in them ($1,500). They may involve cars that have been on the dealers lot for six months and need to move. They may have been purchased during promotional periods where the dealer has invisible cash incentives from Lexus (December to Remember, Year-End). Set a reasonable goal here; just do what you can. The more work you put in, the more you will save up to a point.
(4) Good observation. Don't feel to bad. When I purchased my last car, my sales rep had just got back from delivering a new car to a buyers home ... they didn't even take the time to come down to the dealership to pickup the car. Do what is right for you.

If you are going to own your car for 8 to 10 years, you might be better off with the RX. On the other hand, Subarus really hold their value. You can go down every other year and get a new one for a surprising small upgrade cost on a trade-in. One area where the Outback will really outperform the RX is on gas mileage. I have the 2.5i with CVT and it is easy to average 26 MPG around town with mixed city/highway driving. At 65 MPH on the highway, you can get 30 - 33 MPG (this is higher than EPA rating, but not that hard to get) with a little care. One thing to look for on the Outback when you are test driving it is the really great highway ride quality.