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Hesitation On Acceleration--2012 RX 350

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Old 09-24-12, 10:02 AM   #31
Jtanda
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As you see in my previous post, we experienced the exact same hesitation issues, have been alomst broadsided twice, once in the middle of an intersection. The dealerships standard answer is "can't duplicate, can't fix" (my guess is Toyota Corp provided the guidance on that " ") If they admit it's a problem then they have to fix it and put on their reliability measure. I have read all the comments and do understand how some can think, well you are accelerating to fast "gunning it", or put it in S3 or change where you buy gas, on and on...it's always the same response from the car. We can go days with no issue and then weeks with constant issues. The last time we took it in they kept it for 3-4 days and supposedly were going to have someone drive it for a long period (we told them let someone drive for a couple days), they claimed "still cant duplicate", we wrote down the odometer reading, prior to giving it to them....they only drove it 50 miles and same old answer, "can't duplicate", and we have told them on multiple occasions it may not happens when you "want it to" it's random. We have had them ride with us, they acknowledge it, video'd it, they acknowledge, etc. no good. We too are long time Lexus owners and will be disappointed to leave Lexus, but if they won't help and figure out how to fix their issue, I don't want an LS460that drives like this. Obviously many others are having it. It's great on the road, but in the city it's awful and dangerous. 2 questions,,, you mentioned the recall issue being extended to include 2009 LS460's, where did you find that it included 2009's and do you know what it takes to push for a recall, class action or any legal recourse (other than Lemon Law, we have been fighting this now for two years and I think that's outside the LL range). Does it take someone to get seriously hurt. One interesting thing, we took a look at our dealership service records,,,,no mention of the numerous times we have had it in for this issue (and it's been a lot). Again, if they don't acknowledge that they found a problem, there is no problem
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Old 09-24-12, 11:49 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Woodrow View Post
This is another case of an issue that qualifies as "not documented" simply because they choose to pretend it didn’t happen.
I won't ever say that you believe, with all your heart, that the car has an issue, but you can't expect a tech or corporate to try and fix something that...

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only happened once in 24K miles
.

...regardless of how many people complain about a hesitation. I know you're not complaining of an unintended acceleration OP, but the logic that corporate should open a can of worms on a car that they can't find a problem with is bad for customers and bad for business.

All of the unintended acceleration cases I've worked with (3) turned out to be 100% gas mashes when we got the black box report back from the car being quarantined. All three of them were stuck or incorrect floormats.

It's a fact that Toyota and Lexus have never had a crash as a result as a failure of the by-wire system going 100%. It's always been operator error. Always. I've fixed throttles, pedals, and harnesses, but the complaint has never been a UA with those fixes - it's always a CEL. The new throttles and pedals are so sensitive to bad data that they even throw "Rough Idle" codes when the RPMs are inconsistant enough.

tl;dr - bring your car back as many times as you feel neccessary - they're always happy to address your concerns and give you a loaner car (within reason) if you feel they need to keep it to try and figure it out. Judging by your complaint and that it's only happened one time in 24k, and that after numerous ride alongs, test drives, and dealer sleepovers they can't find anything, occum's razor holds that (on that one occasion it acted up enough to scare you) your shoes slipped for a second/you surprised the car in a high gear/etc. and the car is AOK. Maybe they'll release a shift or throttle update you can get (I bet they will if they get enough confirmed complaints).

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Old 09-24-12, 11:58 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by mark4009 View Post
I suspect that if a technician were able to reproduce the problem in my car, his report would find its way to deaf ears,
Techs create product reports on abnormal failures or behaviors when it stands out to us. We're trained that any drivability concerns, if their isn't already a bulletin for a remap or retune, gets called into Technician Assistance and a product report.

I'm reporting stuff to 'yota at least 5 times a month. We get $100 if they think our product report is the best written/fixed that month (yet to win that), $50 if it's 2nd, $25 if it's 3rd. They even pay us diag time for working with the Technician Assistance line if they're having you run tests.
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Old 09-24-12, 12:26 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by RandomTech View Post
Techs create product reports on abnormal failures or behaviors when it stands out to us. We're trained that any drivability concerns, if their isn't already a bulletin for a remap or retune, gets called into Technician Assistance and a product report.

I'm reporting stuff to 'yota at least 5 times a month. We get $100 if they think our product report is the best written/fixed that month (yet to win that), $50 if it's 2nd, $25 if it's 3rd. They even pay us diag time for working with the Technician Assistance line if they're having you run tests.
Yes, there have been TERRIBLE failures; sorry to burst your bubble!! The whole Lexus/Toyota problem came to light when a California Highway Patrolman was killed along with his whole family at a dead end freeway. He was reminded on his cell phone to make sure he was NOT pushing on the wrong pedal; he was NOT! It was a Loaner from Bob Baker Lexus; it did NOT have a double Floor mat; it WAS a failure of the drive by wire system. It was going 110 MPH at the time of the deadly crash! Lexus and Toyota have succeeded in covering most of the deaths up; and handing out floormats and blaming drivers because their techs can fix it!!
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Old 09-24-12, 12:32 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Jtanda View Post
As you see in my previous post, we experienced the exact same hesitation issues, have been alomst broadsided twice, once in the middle of an intersection. The dealerships standard answer is "can't duplicate, can't fix" (my guess is Toyota Corp provided the guidance on that " ") If they admit it's a problem then they have to fix it and put on their reliability measure. I have read all the comments and do understand how some can think, well you are accelerating to fast "gunning it", or put it in S3 or change where you buy gas, on and on...it's always the same response from the car. We can go days with no issue and then weeks with constant issues. The last time we took it in they kept it for 3-4 days and supposedly were going to have someone drive it for a long period (we told them let someone drive for a couple days), they claimed "still cant duplicate", we wrote down the odometer reading, prior to giving it to them....they only drove it 50 miles and same old answer, "can't duplicate", and we have told them on multiple occasions it may not happens when you "want it to" it's random. We have had them ride with us, they acknowledge it, video'd it, they acknowledge, etc. no good. We too are long time Lexus owners and will be disappointed to leave Lexus, but if they won't help and figure out how to fix their issue, I don't want an LS460that drives like this. Obviously many others are having it. It's great on the road, but in the city it's awful and dangerous. 2 questions,,, you mentioned the recall issue being extended to include 2009 LS460's, where did you find that it included 2009's and do you know what it takes to push for a recall, class action or any legal recourse (other than Lemon Law, we have been fighting this now for two years and I think that's outside the LL range). Does it take someone to get seriously hurt. One interesting thing, we took a look at our dealership service records,,,,no mention of the numerous times we have had it in for this issue (and it's been a lot). Again, if they don't acknowledge that they found a problem, there is no problem
Have a look at L-SB-0033-08 Rev2 "Hesitation on Acceleration". It was first issued on June 6, 2008. Rev 2 was issued on July 18, 2012 and states: "Applicability has been updated to include 2009-2012 LS 460 and 2008-2012 LS 600h vehicles."
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Old 09-24-12, 12:39 PM   #36
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Might merge this thread with Hesitation on Acceleration 2012 RX 350
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Old 09-24-12, 03:43 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by RandomTech View Post
Techs create product reports on abnormal failures or behaviors when it stands out to us. We're trained that any drivability concerns, if their isn't already a bulletin for a remap or retune, gets called into Technician Assistance and a product report.

I'm reporting stuff to 'yota at least 5 times a month. We get $100 if they think our product report is the best written/fixed that month (yet to win that), $50 if it's 2nd, $25 if it's 3rd. They even pay us diag time for working with the Technician Assistance line if they're having you run tests.
Let me get this straight. You are given a bonus not simply for writing up a problem, but for fixing it. In other words, the more you encounter a problem that you've previously found you can't fix, the less likely you are to enter the contest. Seems like an incentive program not well designed to reveal the number of reported instances of a problem that you and your colleagues find they can't reproduce..

May I ask how many times you've encountered (not necessarily reported) the hesitation on acceleration problem (not unintended acceleration), over what period of time, and in what models/years?

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Old 09-24-12, 11:01 PM   #38
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IF i was as concerned as most of you here are regarding this issue,
whether Lexus/Toyota acknowledge that there IS a problem..
i will be trading it in a heart beat.. to a Non-Lexus/ Non- Toyota SUV.
End of story
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Old 09-25-12, 06:58 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by mark4009 View Post
May I ask how many times you've encountered (not necessarily reported) the hesitation on acceleration problem (not unintended acceleration), over what period of time, and in what models/years?
We report any that are duplicated that we don't have a fix for. Any hesitation gets the ATF level checked, but if we don't have an obvious mechanical cause (CEL, codes, leaks, etc), we call California. They note it, but if there is no reprogram available, unfortunately all we can do it say, "yep, that's how they designed it". I don't like telling customers that. I won't ever ship a car and shrug my shoulders.

Note on UA:
Every UA case gets a call to California and a field technical specialist is contacted, doubly so if it's a model with the pedal/floormat modification recalls. Not one gets shipped (at least at my dealer) without Toyota being contacted.

If there was a crash as a result and the customer claims UA, the car gets quarantined from the guest and Toyota dispatches a special team who's only job is to look at UAs. They've been out once for an RX300 with high mileage (150k + if I remember correctly) and diagnosed it as a sticking throttle due to PCV deposits. A new throttle fixed it. It wouldn't stick open, it just wouldn't close all the way and the guest rolled into something in a parking lot. No one got to work on it but the UA team.


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Originally Posted by mark4009 View Post
Let me get this straight. You are given a bonus not simply for writing up a problem, but for fixing it. In other words,
Other way around: they reward the tech for writing a good product report, in terms of clarity, diagnostic procedure, and to a small extent how abnormal the problem is. An example: the winner from a few months back was a perfect written, with pictures, diag of a trans fluid leak on an RX450. A fitting for one of the ATF hard lines was only threaded 75% of the way (manufactured incorrectly), so when it was installed the flaired fitting wouldn't seal even though the threaded fitting was bottomed out. New fitting/line, fixed. Pretty simple, but the guy did a good job of explaining the problem, so he got $100.


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Originally Posted by dctex99 View Post
Yes, there have been TERRIBLE failures; sorry to burst your bubble!! The whole Lexus/Toyota problem came to light when a California Highway Patrolman was killed along with his whole family at a dead end freeway.
It was a floormat on that one:

http://santee.patch.com/articles/sur...files-lawsuit:

Quote:
The crash made headlines nationwide. An investigation found that an improper floor mat caused the gas pedal on the Lexus to become stuck and the driver, California Highway Patrol Officer Mark Saylor, was unable to slow the car down. Toyota recalled more than 4 million vehicles following the investigation’s findings.
I'm not saying that the UA doesn't happen - the floormat/pedal issue is messed up and Toyota screwed the pooch on it. In my experience, and having talked with the UA team and field specialists, and with congress investigating, there's no way it's the drive-by-wire going SkyNet.

BACK TO THE ORIGINAL TOPIC:

Shifting hesitation happens. Try a different dealer and see what they say. You may want to suggest they reset the transmission learned mapping and let it relearn your driving style - it's not a repair, but I have had it fix a guest's concern after they bought the car from someone with an entirely different driving style.

Last edited by RandomTech; 09-25-12 at 08:41 AM..
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Old 09-27-12, 02:51 PM   #40
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Has anyone experienced this problem after moving from Reverse into Drive?
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Old 09-27-12, 05:25 PM   #41
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[QUOTE=markrivers;7504449]IF i was as concerned as most of you here are regarding this issue,
whether Lexus/Toyota acknowledge that there IS a problem..
i will be trading it in a heart beat.. to a Non-Lexus/ Non- Toyota SUV.
End of story[/QUOTE


Many of us are concerned; but realize Lexus has done the politically correct thing; fixed the main problem quietly and given many of you new floor mats; as long as I know it won't kill ME as it has others, I love the vehicle. Many hate certain politicians but they don't immediately move to Canada; they adjust!!
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Old 09-27-12, 09:29 PM   #42
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Audi had a similar problem with their 2002 A6. Many people complained about it on their message boards. This was still fairly early in the "drive-by-wire" days. You'd think automobile engineers would have worked this out across the board by now.
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Old 09-28-12, 06:46 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by jarm View Post
First of all let me tell you that all dealerships are not the same. If the second dealership gives you the same BS then you go to plan B. I would write a letter to the president of Lexus in North America. When I wrote my letter he was in CA. I would send the letter to him certified. I would also tell him that you are a loyal Lexus customer and you are very unhappy. You want to leave Lexus altogether. I purchased a certified Lexus from a dealer (Westside Lexus in Houston) some time back. The dealer told me that the put new tires on the car. After looking at the tires, two were not new. After I complained to the dealer, they just said I did not need these two new tires. Since I was pissed off, I wrote the president of Lexus a certifed letter telling him how pissed of I was. He called me the day he received the letter. He told me to go to any tire dealer that I wanted and puchase 2 new tires to match the other 2 new tires and bring the bill to Westside with no questions asked. The owner of Northside Lexus called me too and apologized. I purchased two new tires paid by Westside Lexus and the service manager gave me two golf shirts and a free oil change. It pays to go to the top. jarm
Since i assumed you are from the Houston area like me , i purchase mine from Sterling Mccall Lexus, and i may have to go that route as well. Can you PM with the name of the president to be sure he is the one. let me know and thanks
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Old 09-28-12, 11:00 AM   #45
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Default Still more references to the hesitation problem, including YouTube clips

Here are some additional references re: the hesitation problem. I apologize to those who have already seen any or all.

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx-t...-rx-350-a.html

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2010...bout-lexus-es/

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/13/bu...yota.html?_r=0



From: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/autom...us.html?page=4

Dustin of Farmington, UT on Aug. 19, 2010[/U]

We recently bought a 2010 Lexus GX 460 from Stevinson Lexus in Colorado. Recently, the car has developed a serious stalling problem when accelerating from a stop. We took the car to Larry H Miller Lexus in Murray, Utah. They told us that they were very familiar with the problem. It is a known problem to the model but Lexus doesn't have a fix. They admitted that it was a very dangerous problem and offered us a loaner while the matter was resolved. They said they had a number of customers that had the same problem and they also were in loaners. Lexus Corporate got involved and admitted they were working on a fix. They confirmed that NHTSA was aware of the problem. Lexus claimed the car was safe and demanded that I return the loaner. I am pursuing a lemon law claim.


From Edmunds.com


#1404 of 1407 Trasmission on Lexus es 330 - 04 by bboyles
Sep 17, 2012 (5:09 pm
)

Hello,
My name is B Boyles and I have been reading all of the forum posts regarding the ES Transmission problems. I could not find out if any of the other members on this forum have had these problems with the ES 330 - 04 model. That is the year that I have. I thought that I was crazy thinking that it was just me with the hesitation of my transmission. Everything that I have read on here is exactly what I have been dealing with. I have taken it into Lexus and also Toyota many times and they also tell me that there is noting wrong with it. Often times it jerks when shifting or when you are slowing down coming to a stop. I also have the problem of it when getting on to the freeway. I now have a faint exhaust problem in the cab- when I have the AC on. It is enough to give me a migraine swell up my glands and also makes my hair and clothes smell bad. I took it into both Lexus and Toyota and they say there is nothing wrong with it - they said there is zero smell. Has anyone had this exhaust problem? I don't know what to do with the car.....I was thinking of getting a used vehicle - this car works for me since I have had a severe spinal fusion- the ride and seats are comfortable and they work for me......but not if I have to smell exhaust when I drive the car of turn on the AC. I don't know if anyone knows of a better car to try that has a similar ride in the comfort of this car. Any help that anyone can give me - I would really appreciate it so much. I have been offered a small trade in value for my car- I don't want to keep it if the Transmission is going to go out or possibly get me into an accident by having the terrible hesitation. For some reason Microsoft email does not work on my computer- that is why I went ahead and registered on here. I hope that I am able to communicate with others on this site. Thank you for your help.
Sincerely, B Boyles


#1373 of 1407 2005 ES330 has the same transmission probs by firbird
Oct 11, 2009 (11:48 am)


I have a 2005 Lexus ES330 and have had it since day 1, and it has always had a hesitation and "kicking"" into gear issue, more pronounced now that the car is at 80,000 miles.

I'm overwhelmed by the amount of information and number of Lexus owners that have this issue and no resolution has been found.

I think we need to organize a grass-roots campaign and go to the top if need be to get this issue out in the open and addressed. Maybe we should enlist the media. Anyone have any ideas/contacts?

#1343 of 1407 Transmission Problems : 1995 ES300 by sdmillertime
Oct 09, 2007 (10:36 am)


I have a '95 ES300 in mostly sound mechanical shape. However, i've been experiencing some scary moments with my transmission.

Several times now while driving, my gas pedal will become unresponsive. The engine will rev, but the car will not move forward. I try to shift to a lower gear, and these will also not drive.

After pulling over and shutting the engine off, I will restart the engine, and the car will drive as normal. This has happened 4 times now. 3 of these times happened while I was driving on the freeway (2 going up a significant hill). The other time was driving through the city, going no more than 20 mph.

COMMENT: Is there any serious question that Lexus knows how the problem looks, feels and smells? Why, then, should customers continue to accept the "If-I-can't-reproduce-it--I-can't fix it" rubric?
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