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Hesitation On Acceleration--2012 RX 350

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Old 09-23-12, 08:32 PM   #16
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I'm glad I'm not crazy. I can't wait for this lease to end. I'd been in the "make a right, add throttle, wait to get hit" situation enough times to know that I have to drive around it. Driving around town I leave the thing in S3 just to get some kind of throttle response. This thing drives like it was designed for Sunday drivers. Every chance it gets, it upshifts to 6th.
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Old 09-23-12, 08:50 PM   #17
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the RX 350 was not designed for a jack rabbit style of driving.. especially when you're on D mode.
it's not exclusive to Lexus, i noticed the same "delayed response" on toyotas as well ( 2009 Toyota Camry to be exact)
my guess is, mark4009 is flooring the accelerator as he makes the lane change.
have you tried smoothly depressing the gas pedal instead?
if you can't adjust to it, stay with S3 instead while in the city.

Last edited by markrivers; 09-23-12 at 08:54 PM..
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Old 09-23-12, 10:03 PM   #18
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My 2011 Camry SE had this problem on top of a thousand more and guess what the dealer said it was normal and that all sport edition camrys did it. It wasn't normal and I was tired of having my car in at the dealer then in my own garage so I got rid of that car in 14 months after I bought it.
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Old 09-23-12, 10:13 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbh1515 View Post
I have not been on this forum for quite some time, but my wife's 2010 RX350 has been in the dealer for a week for a transmission issue that has been going on for a while. The above description is I think what we are experiencing. Usually it happens in a residential area when you are coming up to an intersection--you slow down and as you finish the turn you slowly accelerate. Instead of the car accelerating though, it feels like the transmission slips, the engine revs up and then the transmission goes into gear and the car surges forward. When we first got the car new, I had my wife bring it in to get it checked out, and they could not reproduce the problem and told her that it was normal, and probably just the transmission "learning her driving patterns." Didn't make sense to me!?!? The problem is intermittent though, and started up again about a week ago. This time the dealership took it out with my wife and it did it 3 times. The car has been at the dealership for 1 week and they said there is definately a problem, but that Lexus is researching it, and trying to figure out what it is. Has anybody has this issue fixed?
This is our third RX. The first was the 400h--the hybrid system broke after 3 months and had to be replaced. It must have been a lemon because we could never get decent mileage out of it and we traded it in for a RX350, which was a great car (only annoyance was that it had the piston slap noise), but it was in an accident and was totalled.
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My rx350 does this sometimes, my dads always like quit punching the accelerator so much and I'm like it's not me it's the car. It's usually when ur slowing down at a stop light and want to make a turn. As soon as u turn and want to speed up again it almost hesitates and then jerks u back as it speeds up. Not what I expected from Lexus, but not really surprised either as our 2011 toyota Camry did something similar to this but was much more noticeable.
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Old 09-23-12, 10:38 PM   #20
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My 2007 RX did this exact same thing occasionally and so does my 2010 RX.
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Old 09-23-12, 10:44 PM   #21
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My hesitation issues on my '07 RX, and now the '10 RX did not involve potential life or death hazards. The hesitation that I get is when I'm slowing down at an intersection and maybe turning into a driveway of a shopping plaza or such, and then accelerate to advance forward at a slow speed, not a jack rabbit type of acceleration, i.e., looking for a parking space. I've never felt in danger, but I just figured this was a normal reaction on the RX, second gen and third gen.
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Old 09-23-12, 11:21 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by dctex99 View Post
I don't know if you are kidding, or not aware of the weakness of the drive by wire system!!
This IS, of course, what failed also and has killed people and Lexus has ONLY admitted that we customers don't know enough not to put our feet on the gas instead of the brake!
There has never been a documented case of the drive-by-wire system failing in any way resulting in acceleration. None. None whatsoever. The Department of Transportation, the FBI, and Congress all came to the same conclusion: http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/08/auto...port/index.htm

A drive-by-wire system is significantly safer that cable: a wire cannot stick like cables are so want to do. Redundant, contact free position sensors in the pedal and throttle prevent any abnormal data from causing abnormal behavior. Any fault codes or lack of power to the throttle limits the car to a high idle. All Lexus by-wire throttle have over-amperage motor precautions to detect a sticking throttle and immediately shut the throttle down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dctex99 View Post
Maybe they will increase the voltage to mirror the Ford system and you will get quicker response but they have had a couple of years to do it and it has not changed.
Ford used the same pedals you're *****ing about: http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2010...-acceleration/

And they also had issue with pedals, a CABLE system, sticking on a plastic cover: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_1...ky-gas-pedals/

That's an issue. Toyota's was a pedal that was too long and idiot guests who run aftermarket, doubled up floormats that catch the pedal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mark4009 View Post
Why do they need to duplicate a problem that they've seen hundreds or thousands of times?
You can't fix what you can't confirm you fixed. They would be doing you a disservice by telling you it's fixed when in actuality they just threw a part/reflash at it.

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Originally Posted by mark4009 View Post
The question is upon whom does the burden fall when multiple models over multiple years manifest the same defect?
A shift pattern/shift hesitation that the TSB "fixes", like the one you described, isn't a defect. The TSB changes the shift patterns to make the customer happy. It's just tuning. The fact that they keep updating the TSB to include more models doesn't indicate an overreaching problem to me, but Lexus willing to tailor the car to make the guest happy. If your dealer, after multiple attempts to duplicate both with you driving, you riding, and them keeping the car for a while results in nothing, following your specific instructions, then either you're crazy (you don't seem like you are) or the car's acting as designed.

A small number of 2007 ES350s had shift hesitations. Slight, but noticeable when cold and they wouldn't respond to reprogramming. The problem? A clutch apply pack snap-ring was installed backwards. They bought nearly all of them back to make the customers happy. They identified the problem in under a month and had new transmissions out a few weeks later. Lexus is tops in dealer service and initial quality, not to mention repeat and overall purchases, every year, for stuff like this.

tl;dr - there's probably nothing wrong with your car, but I bet if they can duplicate it, they can reprogram it to better suit your driving.

Last edited by RandomTech; 09-23-12 at 11:37 PM..
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Old 09-24-12, 06:03 AM   #23
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I feel that SAME hesitation in my RX350 AWD as well. I can't never get it off smoothly at stop, corner, getting out of parking....and my spouse often asks me "do you know how to drive this car"....duh...it's like putting chilly salts on my wounds. When speed picks up it is so smooth. I have NO PROBLEM on my 450h though.
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Old 09-24-12, 06:58 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoHuskers View Post
I feel that SAME hesitation in my RX350 AWD as well. I can't never get it off smoothly at stop, corner, getting out of parking....and my spouse often asks me "do you know how to drive this car"....duh...it's like putting chilly salts on my wounds. When speed picks up it is so smooth. I have NO PROBLEM on my 450h though.
IIRC the 450h has a CVT. They don't have to play silly games to reduce shift shock.

I really think the problem is with the tune in the 6spd automatic. It is programmed to downshift as smoothly as possible AND aim for the highest gear to keep NVH down and MPG up, so you may be in 4th gear at 15 mph. If, all of the sudden, you go from 15% throttle to 75% throttle, the torque converter will completely release and the engine will SLOWLY wind up to 4500rpm to smoothly shift into 2nd. According to Toyota, reducing shift shock is more important than getting rear ended. That is the lag that I experience.
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Old 09-24-12, 07:14 AM   #25
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The issue is still there, just happened not as frequently. And yes I was also told by the dealer two years ago that my car was “learning my driving patterns”. Did anybody refer to the similar problem for RX Hybrid 450H?
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Old 09-24-12, 07:15 AM   #26
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In a couple of years of driving the Lexus I have never had the occasion to step on the gas pedal from a stop position. Having said that I am not saying there is no problem in this area. The fact that it can not be duplicated by the dealer says that the problem is intermittent, maybe random. Problems like this are very difficult to solve. Keep at it.
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Old 09-24-12, 07:44 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by RandomTech View Post
There has never been a documented case of the drive-by-wire system failing in any way resulting in acceleration. None. None whatsoever.
This doesn't mean a thing, if it actually happened to you! And it DID happen to us whether they can duplicate or not. They (or you) can choose to deny it, believe we're trying to scam someone, or simply think we're too stupid to know the difference, the simple fact is that it DID happen. No, they couldn't duplicate the issue and it only happened once in 24K miles on our 2010 RX, so I completely understand that they couldn't duplicate the issue. But it DID happen. Not a stuck mat, not accidentally stepping on the accelerator instead of the brake, and nothing else that has been mentioned as a possible cause of unintended acceleration. Even though we were literally coasting into a parking spot when the car suddenly accelerated by itself to the point we had to slam on the brakes to avoid crashing into a building, there is STILL no “documented case of the drive-by-wire system failing in any way resulting in acceleration. None. None whatsoever”. Except ... I can tell you without qualification, it did happen.

I could believe almost any excuse that makes SOME sense (including operator error), but they could offer nothing other than "we couldn't duplicate the issue", and “it’s working as designed at this time”. Even if we (the operator) did do something that caused this result, we need to know the circumstances under which the operator CAN cause unexpected acceleration. It’s a truly serious situation that really can happen, but you’re right. This is another case of an issue that qualifies as "not documented" simply because they choose to pretend it didn’t happen.

What if they’re wrong? Would you let your wife drive a car with that history? Or put your kids/grandkids in the car? It's not OK simply because they say there is nothing wrong. All that means is that they don't have a valid explanation. The official Lexus response was “there is nothing wrong with this car". What’s worse is that they’re going to sell that car to some unexpecting buyer without disclosing the POSSIBILITY there might indeed be an issue.

I'm sorry to have hijacked the thread for my rant, but basically being called naive, stupid, or an "idiot guest" as suggested by RandomTech, for experiencing something no one wants to admit, is something I find very offensive. I love my 2 Lexus vehicles, and I greatly appreciate the help provided by our dealer, but simply denying an issue doesn’t mean it ain’t so!
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Old 09-24-12, 08:10 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Woodrow View Post
This doesn't mean a thing, if it actually happened to you! And it DID happen to us whether they can duplicate or not. They (or you) can choose to deny it, believe we're trying to scam someone, or simply think we're too stupid to know the difference, but the simple fact is that it DID happen. No, they couldn't duplicate the issue, and it only happened once in 24K miles on our 2010 RX, so I completely understand that they couldn't duplicate the issue, and I’m not at all surprised. But it DID happen. Not a stuck mat, not accidentally stepping on the accelerator instead of the brake, and nothing else that has been mentioned as a possible cause of unintended acceleration. Even though we were literally coasting into a parking spot when the car suddenly accelerated by itself to the point we had to slam on the brakes to avoid crashing into a building, there is STILL no “documented case of the drive-by-wire system failing in any way resulting in acceleration. None. None whatsoever”. Even though I can tell you without qualification, it did happen.

I could believe almost any excuse that makes SOME sense (including operator error), but they could offer nothing other than "we couldn't duplicate the issue", and “it’s working as designed at this time”. Even if we (the operator) did do something that had this result, we need to know the circumstances under which the operator CAN cause unexpected acceleration. It’s a truly serious situation that really can happen, but you’re right. This is another case of an issue that qualifies as "not documented" simply because they choose to pretend it didn’t happen.

What if they’re wrong? Would you let your wife drive a car with that history? Or put your kids/grandkids in the car? It's not OK simply because they say there is nothing wrong. All that means is that they don't have a valid explanation. The official Lexus response was “there is nothing wrong with this car. What’s worse is that they’re going to sell that car to some unexpecting buyer without disclosing the POSSIBILITY there might indeed be an issue.

I'm sorry to have hijacked the thread for my rant, but basically being called naive or stupid for experiencing something no one wants to admit, is something I find offensive. I love my 2 Lexus vehicles, and I greatly appreciate the help provided by our dealer, but simply denying an issue doesn’t mean it ain’t so!
He is a tech; he has to spout the party line.........Lexus uses a low voltage system; FORD a high voltage system, a much better way....Lexus won't change; I have learned to live with it...my earlier statements ring true.....they have ONLY fixed the brake overriding the Accel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-24-12, 08:37 AM   #29
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First of all let me tell you that all dealerships are not the same. If the second dealership gives you the same BS then you go to plan B. I would write a letter to the president of Lexus in North America. When I wrote my letter he was in CA. I would send the letter to him certified. I would also tell him that you are a loyal Lexus customer and you are very unhappy. You want to leave Lexus altogether. I purchased a certified Lexus from a dealer (Westside Lexus in Houston) some time back. The dealer told me that the put new tires on the car. After looking at the tires, two were not new. After I complained to the dealer, they just said I did not need these two new tires. Since I was pissed off, I wrote the president of Lexus a certifed letter telling him how pissed of I was. He called me the day he received the letter. He told me to go to any tire dealer that I wanted and puchase 2 new tires to match the other 2 new tires and bring the bill to Westside with no questions asked. The owner of Northside Lexus called me too and apologized. I purchased two new tires paid by Westside Lexus and the service manager gave me two golf shirts and a free oil change. It pays to go to the top. jarm
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Old 09-24-12, 09:07 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Woodrow View Post
This doesn't mean a thing, if it actually happened to you! And it DID happen to us whether they can duplicate or not. They (or you) can choose to deny it, believe we're trying to scam someone, or simply think we're too stupid to know the difference, but the simple fact is that it DID happen. No, they couldn't duplicate the issue, and it only happened once in 24K miles on our 2010 RX, so I completely understand that they couldn't duplicate the issue, and I’m not at all surprised. But it DID happen. Not a stuck mat, not accidentally stepping on the accelerator instead of the brake, and nothing else that has been mentioned as a possible cause of unintended acceleration. Even though we were literally coasting into a parking spot when the car suddenly accelerated by itself to the point we had to slam on the brakes to avoid crashing into a building, there is STILL no “documented case of the drive-by-wire system failing in any way resulting in acceleration. None. None whatsoever”. Even though I can tell you without qualification, it did happen.

I could believe almost any excuse that makes SOME sense (including operator error), but they could offer nothing other than "we couldn't duplicate the issue", and “it’s working as designed at this time”. Even if we (the operator) did do something that had this result, we need to know the circumstances under which the operator CAN cause unexpected acceleration. It’s a truly serious situation that really can happen, but you’re right. This is another case of an issue that qualifies as "not documented" simply because they choose to pretend it didn’t happen.

What if they’re wrong? Would you let your wife drive a car with that history? Or put your kids/grandkids in the car? It's not OK simply because they say there is nothing wrong. All that means is that they don't have a valid explanation. The official Lexus response was “there is nothing wrong with this car. What’s worse is that they’re going to sell that car to some unexpecting buyer without disclosing the POSSIBILITY there might indeed be an issue.

I'm sorry to have hijacked the thread for my rant, but basically being called naive or stupid for experiencing something no one wants to admit, is something I find offensive. I love my 2 Lexus vehicles, and I greatly appreciate the help provided by our dealer, but simply denying an issue doesn’t mean it ain’t so!
You can infer that I'm in complete agreement with your point. If the same intermittent problem is brought to their attention multiple times, and on each of those occasions they can't reproduce the problem, why should the problem remain ours rather than theirs? They have enough evidence by virtue of the reports to know that a problem exists. Rather than approach it by looking at each and every car in isolation, how about taking ten or twenty off the line, have them driven in street and freeway conditions for a couple of weeks, monitor their experience on a daily basis, and draw a conclusion? Indeed, I suspect that if a technician were able to reproduce the problem in my car, his report would find its way to deaf ears, leaving me in exactly the same position.
The suggestion above that may wife or I drive the car in a "jack-rabbit" style is inaccurate. We aren't teenagers nor do we substitute our car for for testosterone. We want the thing to last to its last breathe and are anything but aggressive in getting off the line or ahead of anyone else on the road.
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Old 09-24-12, 09:07 AM
 
 
 
 
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