Auto tailgate doesn't have safety auto-reverse feature
04-10-12, 09:33 AM
#1
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Auto tailgate doesn't have safety auto-reverse feature
Last night we were using the auto close feature on the tailgate and out of curiousity, put my hand under the closing tailgate to see if it would auto-reverse to keep from, say pinching my kid's hand and apparently, it didn't auto-reverse. I find that to be a serious over-thought on Lexus' part considering that pretty much all auto-tailgates have this feature. Their windows have this feature. Why doesn't the tailgate have this feature. It seems that for it to auto-reserve mid-motion, you have to either press the auto-close button on the bottom of the tailgate or press the botton on the outside of the tailgate. 
Can someone confirm if they tailgate auto-reverses in case ours is not working as it's supposed to? I don't have the manual in front of me and I did try giving it a lot of resistance and it seemed like the closing motor was just going to close the tailgate no matter how much resistance I gave it.
Can someone confirm if they tailgate auto-reverses in case ours is not working as it's supposed to? I don't have the manual in front of me and I did try giving it a lot of resistance and it seemed like the closing motor was just going to close the tailgate no matter how much resistance I gave it.
04-10-12, 10:06 AM
#2
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It does open back if you give it resistance. i have always thought it needed more resistance than necessary but really hold your hand or any other object in its path and it will pop back open.
04-10-12, 10:14 AM
#3
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
I assumed that it too should have an auto-reverse function and was really surprised that it didn't "kick in" last night. I was using my hand to hold the tailgate from closing any further and it seemed like the motor was straining and I didn't want to burn it out and so I released it. Maybe I didn't give it enough resistance but I will say that if it requires more, than wow. You really have to be applying a lot of resistance for it to auto-reverse. Maybe, I'll put a box in it's path and see what happens.
04-10-12, 10:36 AM
#4
I've always wondered this myself, but figured by law it has to have a re-open feature just like everything else (garage door, car window, sunroof, etc...).
I guess I know what I'm doing when I get home.
I guess I know what I'm doing when I get home.
04-10-12, 10:50 AM
#5
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
I tried viewing the manual on-line and I wasn't able to find anything that mentions the auto-reverse of the tailgate. Funny, I was reading over the section on opening and closing windows, moonroof, and tailgate and it didn't mention anything about the windows or moonroof having the auto-reverse feature either. I couldn't find it in the safety section either. I'm not sure how complete the on-line manual is so I'll check when I get home but it's wierd that it doesn't mention it in the opening/closing section or even as a footnote. 
04-10-12, 11:24 AM
#6
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
After some tedious reading, I was able to find some mention of the auto reverse feature. At least on-line, it shows to be page 74 so I'm not sure if this correctly correlates to the paper manual but I was able to find it.
To quote...
"If anything obstructs the power back door while it is closing/opening, a buzzer
will sound and the back door will automatically operate in the opposite direction."
"Sensors are attached to the left and right
sides of the power back door. If these sensors
detect an obstruction while the power back
door is closing, the jam protection function
will return the door to the fully open position."
One thing to note, the auto reverse appears to be triggered by sensors and NOT by resistance and apparently, there are only two sensors running along the sides on the tailgate. I'll try this tonight but in my opinion, this is not sufficient as it appears to be saying that only if the sensors on the sides detect an obstrction will the tailgate auto reverse. If anything obstructs the tailgate from the bottom, it will continue to try to close which is how I was trying to get it to auto reverse. I was grabbing the bottom of the tailgate and nothing was happening. This bad because what if someone happens to put their hand there instead of the sides; the tailgate will basically close on your hand or whatever else.
My parents have an suv where it seems to auto reverse based on resistance and not much resistance, mind you. It can be from anywhere on the tailgate as long as there is resistance, it will auto reverse.
Normally, I'm a big fan of Lexus but I think they missed the mark in this case.
To quote...
"If anything obstructs the power back door while it is closing/opening, a buzzer
will sound and the back door will automatically operate in the opposite direction."
"Sensors are attached to the left and right
sides of the power back door. If these sensors
detect an obstruction while the power back
door is closing, the jam protection function
will return the door to the fully open position."
One thing to note, the auto reverse appears to be triggered by sensors and NOT by resistance and apparently, there are only two sensors running along the sides on the tailgate. I'll try this tonight but in my opinion, this is not sufficient as it appears to be saying that only if the sensors on the sides detect an obstrction will the tailgate auto reverse. If anything obstructs the tailgate from the bottom, it will continue to try to close which is how I was trying to get it to auto reverse. I was grabbing the bottom of the tailgate and nothing was happening. This bad because what if someone happens to put their hand there instead of the sides; the tailgate will basically close on your hand or whatever else.
My parents have an suv where it seems to auto reverse based on resistance and not much resistance, mind you. It can be from anywhere on the tailgate as long as there is resistance, it will auto reverse.
Normally, I'm a big fan of Lexus but I think they missed the mark in this case.
Last edited by bam; 04-10-12 at 12:01 PM.
04-10-12, 12:24 PM
#7
Wow. Interesting. Although I don't feel like sacrificing my hand.
I was curious about it in the other direction since I am thinking of a Curt hitch and bike mount for the Summer. Was wondering if I have the bike mount in place and for some stupid reason the hatch open feature gets hit on the key fob (like from being in my pocket, etc) if the sensors would prevent the hatch from opening... But again... sacrificing some scratches for a test... not in the cards for me.
I was curious about it in the other direction since I am thinking of a Curt hitch and bike mount for the Summer. Was wondering if I have the bike mount in place and for some stupid reason the hatch open feature gets hit on the key fob (like from being in my pocket, etc) if the sensors would prevent the hatch from opening... But again... sacrificing some scratches for a test... not in the cards for me.
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04-10-12, 02:17 PM
#8
I went out to test this function on my 450h today. Apparently, I too have no auto reverse. Additionally,
there is a sticker on the door indicating to keep fingers away from door when closing. I think that says it all.
there is a sticker on the door indicating to keep fingers away from door when closing. I think that says it all.
04-10-12, 02:37 PM
#9
No, I don't play soccer!
Wow. Interesting. Although I don't feel like sacrificing my hand.
I was curious about it in the other direction since I am thinking of a Curt hitch and bike mount for the Summer. Was wondering if I have the bike mount in place and for some stupid reason the hatch open feature gets hit on the key fob (like from being in my pocket, etc) if the sensors would prevent the hatch from opening... But again... sacrificing some scratches for a test... not in the cards for me.
I was curious about it in the other direction since I am thinking of a Curt hitch and bike mount for the Summer. Was wondering if I have the bike mount in place and for some stupid reason the hatch open feature gets hit on the key fob (like from being in my pocket, etc) if the sensors would prevent the hatch from opening... But again... sacrificing some scratches for a test... not in the cards for me.
And please, no testing the auto reverse function with hands please!
04-10-12, 08:40 PM
#12
Bam,
The sensors run on the underside of the edges of the rear door. They look like door gaskets. Mine are black, as I have a black car, yours maybe a different color. They are pressure sensors. If you are very careful you can test them. First open the door and locate the sensors, they are only on the sides of the door and run from top to bottom. At the top they go into the door and at the bottom they just stop. Pinch them, they are soft just like a door gasket. Now very carefully so you don't get hurt, push the close button and quickly pinch one of the sensors. The car should beep and the door should reverse.
In addition to the side sensors, there is (probably*) a current sensor on the motor of the rear door closer. If the force to close the door is in excess of "normal", such as a blockage the current sensor sees the motor is overloading and will reverse. As RXSF has indicated, it takes a lot of force to trigger auto reverse.
So there are at least three devices to sense obstructions, the two edge sensors and the force sensor on the motor. Although these are safeties, I'm sure in the right (or is it wrong) circumstances the door may not auto reverse. Caution is always warranted. If you can't get the door to auto reverse, I would suggest a trip to your service department.
*I haven't seen this in the manual, but it seems to me that is how this works. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
The sensors run on the underside of the edges of the rear door. They look like door gaskets. Mine are black, as I have a black car, yours maybe a different color. They are pressure sensors. If you are very careful you can test them. First open the door and locate the sensors, they are only on the sides of the door and run from top to bottom. At the top they go into the door and at the bottom they just stop. Pinch them, they are soft just like a door gasket. Now very carefully so you don't get hurt, push the close button and quickly pinch one of the sensors. The car should beep and the door should reverse.
In addition to the side sensors, there is (probably*) a current sensor on the motor of the rear door closer. If the force to close the door is in excess of "normal", such as a blockage the current sensor sees the motor is overloading and will reverse. As RXSF has indicated, it takes a lot of force to trigger auto reverse.
So there are at least three devices to sense obstructions, the two edge sensors and the force sensor on the motor. Although these are safeties, I'm sure in the right (or is it wrong) circumstances the door may not auto reverse. Caution is always warranted. If you can't get the door to auto reverse, I would suggest a trip to your service department.
*I haven't seen this in the manual, but it seems to me that is how this works. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
04-11-12, 07:22 AM
#13
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
So I tested the auto-reverse when I got home and along the sides of the tailgate where the sensors apparently are, it was easy to get the tailgate to auto-reverse. It didn't take much resistance. I barely tugged on the door and it reversed. Then I tried tugging on the bottom of the tailgate and nothing. I gave it quite a bit of resistance and it still was trying to close. I know that RXSF has siad that it will reverse but it seems that it will require a lot of resistance to "force" it to reverse if anything it blocking from the bottom of the tailgate and not the sides and frankly, I wasn't comfortable testing this as it seemed like I would burn out the motor. This is a big FAIL for Lexus as they should have just made the sensors around the whole perimeter fo the door instead of along the sides.
I mean what happens if someone is unknowingly standing under the door when it's open and someone, say, instead the car closes the door. The door will come down on the person and smack them on the head and instead of auto-reversing, it'll bascially keep slamming their head until that person moves away. I know you can say that someone shouldn't be standing there if you're closing the tailgate but my point is maybe the person clsoing the tailgate doesn't realize someone is standing there and accidentally closes the tailgate on the other person's head. Ouch.
Oh well. I know one of the personal settings that I will be changing when we bring our car in is to have the beeping be constant while the tailgate is opening/closing rather than beep twice.
I did the test last night with my wife there so she could see and so I can remind her to make sure the kids don't stick there hands in there as it's closing to try to grab something like their toy or something. I don't want crying/hurt kids because of crushed fingers.
I might actually send an email to Lexus Corp because I really do think that this is an engineering oversight. They already designed the tailgate with sensors on the sides. Why didn't they just keep the sensors running along the bottom as well.
Now, I do realize that in all likely hood, we may never actually make use of the sensors because we'll probably never be caught off guard just like I've never actually had the anti-pinch window feature kick in because I've never been caught off guard with someone closing the windows on my finger. Still, it is a safety thing considering the the general demographics of the Lexus brand in general being older, it seems that having this safety feature should have been there from the beginning of them offering the auto-closing/opening tailgate.
I mean what happens if someone is unknowingly standing under the door when it's open and someone, say, instead the car closes the door. The door will come down on the person and smack them on the head and instead of auto-reversing, it'll bascially keep slamming their head until that person moves away. I know you can say that someone shouldn't be standing there if you're closing the tailgate but my point is maybe the person clsoing the tailgate doesn't realize someone is standing there and accidentally closes the tailgate on the other person's head. Ouch.
Oh well. I know one of the personal settings that I will be changing when we bring our car in is to have the beeping be constant while the tailgate is opening/closing rather than beep twice.
I did the test last night with my wife there so she could see and so I can remind her to make sure the kids don't stick there hands in there as it's closing to try to grab something like their toy or something. I don't want crying/hurt kids because of crushed fingers.
I might actually send an email to Lexus Corp because I really do think that this is an engineering oversight. They already designed the tailgate with sensors on the sides. Why didn't they just keep the sensors running along the bottom as well.
Now, I do realize that in all likely hood, we may never actually make use of the sensors because we'll probably never be caught off guard just like I've never actually had the anti-pinch window feature kick in because I've never been caught off guard with someone closing the windows on my finger. Still, it is a safety thing considering the the general demographics of the Lexus brand in general being older, it seems that having this safety feature should have been there from the beginning of them offering the auto-closing/opening tailgate.
04-11-12, 07:44 AM
#14
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Can anyone comment whether other Lexus and/or Toyota vehicles with auto closing hatch behave the same way as described by BAM on this thread? (ie, only has door sensors on the sides and it take a tremendous amount of force from the bottom to reverse the door motor)
04-11-12, 08:03 AM
#15
Bam,
Please visit your dealership. They maybe able to plug in their computer and adjust the closing force on the rear gate. You can also check the auto reverse function going the opening direction too. Again very carefully, so you don't get hurt nor you scratch your paint, stand at the back of the car with the lift gate closed and using your key fob open the door. As the door opens, apply downward pressure on the license plate (so you don't scratch your paint by accident) and the lift gate should auto reverse and close.
Besides all the things that can happen you've mentioned, the force sensor associated with the motor should (notice I said should) auto reverse if you have too much or too large of objects packed in the car or you open the door in the garage and it hits something. Having the pinch type sensor on the inside glass or the exterior of the car just wouldn't be practical.
Again, please visit your dealer and hopefully they can adjust it or explain what's going on with it. At a minimum, they can explain how it really works and you can come back and straighten me out!
Good luck.
Please visit your dealership. They maybe able to plug in their computer and adjust the closing force on the rear gate. You can also check the auto reverse function going the opening direction too. Again very carefully, so you don't get hurt nor you scratch your paint, stand at the back of the car with the lift gate closed and using your key fob open the door. As the door opens, apply downward pressure on the license plate (so you don't scratch your paint by accident) and the lift gate should auto reverse and close.
Besides all the things that can happen you've mentioned, the force sensor associated with the motor should (notice I said should) auto reverse if you have too much or too large of objects packed in the car or you open the door in the garage and it hits something. Having the pinch type sensor on the inside glass or the exterior of the car just wouldn't be practical.
Again, please visit your dealer and hopefully they can adjust it or explain what's going on with it. At a minimum, they can explain how it really works and you can come back and straighten me out!
Good luck.