2010 RX 350 design flaw

[DaRacerz]

Really feel bad for you. Thats a bummer to loose a brand new car from such a freak accident. I do find it odd the amount of damage caused, but clearly the engine must've overheated when the radiator went. Wish you the best of luck, not better, but best of luck that no such freak accidents happen again.

On a side note, I agree, a simple wire mesh will solve the problem from occurring again, or diminish it significantly, but with that said, there are plenty of cars on the road today with more severely exposed radiator then the RX. Reminds me of my first car, a Chrysler Sebring where the entire lower half (about 6 inches) was completely unprotected from the ground in a scoop region. Never had problems with Radiator problems, although that might of just been luck.

[afpj]

Sorry to hear about that radiator and engine. It seems the the radiator is not too robust on these cars (just like the bumpers), and on top of that aluminum engines don't like excessive heat at least compared to the old iron block.

FYI, I couldn't do the stiff mesh screen protection as I did on our 05 RX as posted on the previous link. Instead, I used Soffit mesh....easier to handle and without having to remove the plastic trim.

NHTSA complaint is a good idea. That is indeed a safety issue now.

[ajs]

Originally Posted by afpj

FYI, I couldn't do the stiff mesh screen protection as I did on our 05 RX as posted on the previous link. Instead, I used Soffit mesh....easier to handle and without having to remove the plastic trim.

Can you give us more details about what you did? A photo would be great!

Thanks.

[The G Man]

Joe, how far did you drive you RX after it overheated?

[DigMyM35x]

Well, sorry this happened - and even getting a new engine surely won't make you feel 'better' about all of this. However, at least you are getting the new engine. I can't imagine driving a car for years always wondering when (not IF) I would be having engine problems due to the damage.

It's great that you were able to get the engine replaced!

In regard to the dealers - I can say that, with another 'luxury' brand I found vastly different customer service and actual service department interactions. One was so frustrating (I had a car sitting for over 28 days waiting for a part - newer model so I was told it would take 'some time' for the part to come in) I tried calling the dealership's owner and was told "He doesn't talk to customers". All I was going to ask was for a little help getting in touch with someone at the regional level to get an ETA as I was there when the service manager left messages for the regional and I never heard from him. Guess where I will NEVER buy again!

I ended up finding a dealership over an hour away from a message board member and the service manager there was great! They drove a loaner down and picked up my car and I never had an issue with them - they were stand up folks.

I haven't experienced this with Lexus, and hopefully never will. It is great that you are sharing your positive experiences though. Although you might not be able to 'warn' us about the bad dealership, hearing the good stories is even more valuable!

Good luck and try to look past this. Remember, as much as we all love our RX's it's still only a car (gasp!!) and you and your family are healthy and unharmed from the accident so there is a lot to be thankful for.

Please keep us posted.

Jay

[Joe G]

Originally Posted by DigMyM35x

Well, sorry this happened - and even getting a new engine surely won't make you feel 'better' about all of this. However, at least you are getting the new engine. I can't imagine driving a car for years always wondering when (not IF) I would be having engine problems due to the damage.

It's great that you were able to get the engine replaced!

In regard to the dealers - I can say that, with another 'luxury' brand I found vastly different customer service and actual service department interactions. One was so frustrating (I had a car sitting for over 28 days waiting for a part - newer model so I was told it would take 'some time' for the part to come in) I tried calling the dealership's owner and was told "He doesn't talk to customers". All I was going to ask was for a little help getting in touch with someone at the regional level to get an ETA as I was there when the service manager left messages for the regional and I never heard from him. Guess where I will NEVER buy again!

I ended up finding a dealership over an hour away from a message board member and the service manager there was great! They drove a loaner down and picked up my car and I never had an issue with them - they were stand up folks.

I haven't experienced this with Lexus, and hopefully never will. It is great that you are sharing your positive experiences though. Although you might not be able to 'warn' us about the bad dealership, hearing the good stories is even more valuable!

Good luck and try to look past this. Remember, as much as we all love our RX's it's still only a car (gasp!!) and you and your family are healthy and unharmed from the accident so there is a lot to be thankful for.

Please keep us posted.

Jay

Truer words could not have been spoken.
In this ecomony we were amazed at how a dealership could care less about keeping us (or our family/friends) as customers. It is what it is.
Unfortunately we are out a vehicle for two months but we are safe.
Thank you Jay and we will keep you posted.

[The G Man]

Originally Posted by Joe G

Truer words could not have been spoken.
In this ecomony we were amazed at how a dealership could care less about keeping us (or our family/friends) as customers. It is what it is.
Unfortunately we are out a vehicle for two months but we are safe.
Thank you Jay and we will keep you posted.

I am not trying to blame you Joe, but this the point I am trying to make. If this happens to any other brand, driving a car when it is overheated to the point where it caused damage to the cylinders, seals and head gaskets, most other luxury brand will say you are on your own.

[tazdevl]

Originally Posted by The G Man

I am not trying to blame you Joe, but this the point I am trying to make. If this happens to any other brand, driving a car when it is overheated to the point where it caused damage to the cylinders, seals and head gaskets

Agreed... For the engine to have this level of damage, the car was driven a fairly long distance overheated with the warnings flashing on the dash. They don't just blow.

[Joe G]

After speaking with several mechanics about this situation, we came up with a theory of the chain of events for this incident. While driving in normal conditions as the SUV was designed to do, road debris found its way through the oversized air dam. The debris fractured two of the delicate aluminum radiator cores (see picture). These cores started leaking coolant at a very slow rate. Because Lexus does not equip the RX with any kind of coolant level sensor, the level was dropping slowly without showing any warning on the dashboard. Obviously the back cylinder head was starving for coolant at this time due to the dealer’s report that the damage is at the back cylinder head. At this point it is not known if the coolant temp sensor was still sensing the remaining coolant or was now positioned out of coolant. When warning lights came on and the alarm sounded we did drive approximately quarter mile to exit. As car came off the tow truck at the N.J. Lexus dealership it was still leaking coolant, and yes we do have a picture of this.
We still feel the bottom line is the air dam is designed to large.
If the potential of this incident occurring to another RX owner can be eliminated by a simple fix, it should be done. I think we agree to disagree on WHO should take the responsibility to implement this fix.

[ExileLakai]

Originally Posted by The G Man

I am not trying to blame you Joe, but this the point I am trying to make. If this happens to any other brand, driving a car when it is overheated to the point where it caused damage to the cylinders, seals and head gaskets, most other luxury brand will say you are on your own.

while we'll never know how long he drove with the coolant needle pegged i will say this.

It's a freaking 2010 Lexus RX!!! The thing should basically stand up and punch you in the face if you ever get close the overheating to the point of engine damage. I highly debut but is possible that he would drive it after the warning lights and sounds come on. I believe based on this experience that lexus might have set the warning lights and sounds to close to the damage envelope.

If critical damage happens at lets say 325 degrees and they set the warning at 315 degrees you really don't have time to get the car stopped and turned off in time before crossing into the damage area. But if it was at 275 you may have enough time to stop the RX without engine damage.

There is also a design flaw that could of happened that i've experienced in a track prepped 350z. the coolant temp sensor is on the upper radiator hose. the lower radiator hose blew off releasing every drop of coolant. since the temp sensor was not submerged in coolant the temp that it was putting out dropped to just about 175 degrees. Now since I was tracking car I knew that the car doesn't run that cool and that something was up.

I say this b/c the RX might have a similar flaw. The coolant drained out giving a similar low temp read out to the on board computer, mean while the engine is really overheating to the point of failure.

But this is all peculation. I'm just throwing ideas.

[The G Man]

ExileLakai, the 3.5 L engine in the RX have been in sevice for a while. I doubt that there is a major design flaw with this engine that will let the engine destroy itself as soon as the high engine temp lights comes on. BTW, does the high engine temp have a audible alarm, if it doesnt, that would be a design flaw on the part of Lexus.

[pulp]

it would be helpful to know how far the temp needle went up, was there any kind of alarm? how far was the car driven after the problem started?

the same engine is in use in many other Toyota cars Wikipedia, there must have been some kind of warning, if not then that's really a serious issue.

what happened to Joe is a terrible experience for a brand new car, but some details about the overheating would clear the picture.

[weaver483]

I installed the gutter guard fix today on my 2010 RX. It was relatively easy to do by installing the gutter guard from the top after removing the plastic cover over the radiator. I also removed two bolts and a few clips under the front bumper in order to manipulate the wire in place and install cable ties. I would consider this problem a design oversight by Lexus/Toyota but it is one that should be corrected immediately. However, I suspect Lexus will wait until the next model year to make the change. As a mechanical design engineer for both commercial and consumer equipment, you should design first for functionality but also harden the design for normal usage under the conditions that typically is expected to be encountered. Freeway driving with some light debris on the road would be considered normal driving conditions in my opinion. The under bumper air intake on the 2010 RX is in an excellent position for air flow but unfortunately it is also in a very good position to receive road debris at freeway speeds. This will most probably lead to radiator compromise and subsequent possibility of engine damage. The 2010 RX air intake design is actually more susceptible to debris intake than the two previous RX generations, at least in my judgment.

[4482]

Originally Posted by weaver483

However, I suspect Lexus will wait until the next model year to make the change.

I installed the gutter guard on my 2005 RX because others as far back as then had damage done to their condenser by debris. Lexus has known about the grill/guard problem for years, and has never done a thing about it. I would not hold my breath now as far as any change in Lexus RX grill/guard design.

[Stormforge]

4482, what size of gutter grill did you use on your RX? obviously, if the holes are large enough, road debris (eg: small rocks) could still get through. on the flip side, if the gutter holes are too small, i wonder if that would restrict air flow?