tedla

My 2008 RX 350 engine burned up because of overheating.
The Engine Check light came on as I was driving in the mountains but the temperature gauge was at zero. No alarm or other indication of overheating came on. I thought Engine Check may be related to smog control or other unimportant reasons. I kept driving as there was no service or any other facility around in the mountains. The car kept on running but was loosing power until I saw smoke coming out of the exhaust and I stopped.
By then, the engine was toast. No alarm of any sort came on to tell me it was overheating.
Is this a design flaw? Have there been other cases like this reported?
Is there a recall ? can I sue Lexus? Warranty is out as the car has 104,000 miles.
Any ideas or suggestions on how I can get some compensation?

tfischer

I don't know what "temperature gauge was at zero" means. There is no zero on a car's temp gauge. If you mean the needle was pinned at the bottom, then it was inoperative and that's a cause for concern right there. If you mean it was in the normal range, then that means the temperature of the water in the engine was normal, which could have been the case. Perhaps whatever caused the overheating problem also caused the gauge to fail. Does your RX have the towing package?
Finally, what were your operating conditions. Driving in the mountains can be a high stress situation for an auto engine, especially if low on oil, high on weight or when driving uphill.
Before engaging in ugly litigation with one of the world's biggest companies, you will need to determine the cause of the problem, and after 100,000 miles, not too much of this is going to fall back on the manufacturer.
Before you "get some compensation," you will need to get some information.

jfelbab

Sorry for your misfortune but I doubt there is any compensation due for your failure to take the proper action when the warning light came on.

Not sure what your manual states but mine says:

"If a warning light turns on or a warning buzzer sounds...

Calmly perform the following actions if any of the warning lights comes on or flashes. If a light comes on or flashes, but then goes off, this does not necessarily indicate a malfunction in the system.

Stop the vehicle immediately. Continuing to drive the vehicle may be dangerous."

You indicated the temperature gauge was at zero. How long has that gauge been inoperable?

Did you have the engine torn down and inspected? If the engine did not seize it may be less expensive to repair the existing motor than to replace.

If your engine has been inspected and if it is really "toast" then I'd suggest that you buy a used engine and replace it. You should expect to pay $2,500- $3,500 for a used engine, shipped with a 1 year warranty. I suspect your 2009 RX would be selling for around $20,000 - $23,000 depending on options and condition so investing in a replacement motor would not be out of the question. The RX350 engine is typically very reliable and I'd see no reason not to expect a 200,000 mile life from one if properly maintained as long as you pay attention to the gauges.

If you have a trusted local mechanic, ask him what he will charge to rebuild or perform a transplant.

Good luck.

robbyk

Wait!!!

How do you know the engine is toasted ??

Has the engine been properly diagnosed and the cause of the overheating been determined ?

RXGS

iTrader: (2)

There's no design flaw, you just failed to recognize all the irregularities. I'm not saying you specifically, but to many people think that just because a car is driving means it's ok. If there's a noise, light, look, etc. that isn't normal, have it checked out.

tedla

Thanks for all the responses. Let me answer some of the questions raised.
1. Temp. Gauge; The temp gauge was resting at the bottom of the gauge. I have been told that (I have to read manuals to verify) if something catastrophic happens, the gauges shut down. In my opinion, that is a design flaw. Why should the temp gauge shut down and not show me that the engine temperature is high. Resting at the bottom is no information. Yes it should have raised my curiosity, but that is not how one designs a car, in my opinion.

2. The car has no towing package and it was not overloaded. It was just me and a couple of bags. I was driving from Sacramento to Truckee, CA. The weather was perfectly normal. I do this trip every 10 days or so as I have business in Truckee. When I saw smoke, I pulled over at Nyack (for those who may know the area) I was towed from Nyack to Truckee. (40 miles)

3. A very reputable shop in Truckee (Auto Doctor) examined the car the next day and opined that the engine was toast (not repairable) and a new engine needed. Anew engine would cost $6,000 to purchase and an other $4,000 to install for labor as well as all additional peripheral stuff (Radiator, hoses, water pump, etc.and it would take a couple of weeks to do it.

4. The trade in value of the car before the event was about $14,000. It made no sense to spend $10K and wait 2 weeks. A Lexus dealer in Reno gave me $6K for the car "as is". I took it and leased a new RX350 as I had business to do and needed to get back to the Bay Area.

5. I am an experienced middle-aged driver and an engineer by profession. So, I feel that it is a design flaw not to give me any warning or alarm (other than the engine check light, which could come on due to maintenance or other non-catastrophic reasons) that the engine was overheating rather than shout down the gauges.

6. I understand you are all Lexus fans (so am I) and do not want to fault the company. But I really feel that I was misled by the lack of warning about overheating. What I need to find out is whether indeed the car is designed to shut down the gauges when an event happens while the car is still running and continue to run to destruction without warning.

7. I just wanted to find out if any of you knew of this situation happening to any one else or if this was a known syndrome. I know, theoretically, I should have stopped when the Engine Check light came on, but I didn't because I have driven cars with the engine check light on and it was only a secondary warning. Some cars are notorious for turning on the Engine Check light for smog control issues and such.

Thanks in advance for any pointers or relevant information.

fastnoypi

Regarding #1 on your list, the temp gauge has long been a basic engine health indicator on almost every car in production. However, to understand it , only indicates COOLANT temperature and its designated ranges for operation. In proper operation, the gauge should move towards the safe operation zone.

Alot of information can be gathered and inferred from the "simple" temp gauge.
-in the cold range, the engine is making adjustments to fueling and timing and will be rich.
-too long in the cold range infers a problem with the coolant thermostat to be stuck open
-fluctuating in the operational range..possible fan problem or stuck thermostat...etc..

If the radiator was bone dry, the temperature probe has no medium to measure but might pick up readings from the surrounding material. Obviously if the probe was inoperational, you would never see the gauge move.


Did the "Auto Doctor" determine any cause of loss of coolant , or lack of circulation?

tfischer

I have not heard or read before that gauges shut down under adverse conditions, unless the condition itself causes the shutdown (e.g.: melts or shorts out a wire or a sensor). When my cars overheat, the temp gauge keeps going up. Regardless, your major problem with making a claim is that the car had over 100,000 miles on it and you failed to check the engine when the check engine light came on, despite the fact that it cries wolf a lot. This time there was a wolf, and, in an adversarial proceeding, that's going to come back to you. Finally, I am pleased to see that "toast" has become an accepted engineering term. Heywood Banks would be pleased.

degmla

iTrader: (1)

"Toast" is a word used for the benefit of a layperson. An engineering term at this point is wasted!

tedla, I agree with you regarding design. You would think loss of cooling would produce a more urgent notification than a mere CEL. CEL's are yellow for a reason -- it's a caution worthy of diligent evaluation, not pull over to the side of the road immediately and call a tow truck. Most all Lexus owner's manuals reflect that in the years we are discussing (<2008). Red warning lights indicate urgent action required. I believe newer cars, including Lexus, are a bit more assertive in drawing attention to a potential overheat condition.

However, litigation, no. Just a bad experience with Lexus is all you can claim. It would be like any other catastrophic failure on the car that is out of warranty. Does not matter if you had no fault. Your car just broke. Sorry.

It will become more prevalent as these cars get older. Get the word out. Most people just get in and drive. Most people don't get in their vehicle and carefully watch their temperature gauge. Fastnoypi, this was an RX, not an RC! Consider your audience? (Hint: most RX drivers are not carfeully tracking the iota-scale fluctuations of their temperature gauge during various driving conditions). Good information, though.

Carver

Does anyone really believe Lexus designed gauges to 'shut down' at the very moment they would be most needed? Anyone? Really? Consider me boggled.

thomas1

Sounds like to me the coolant was low or gone and the gauge had nothing to measure, hince drive and "toast" engine. Sad, but checking under the hood once in awhile would have shown this. We have become so reliant on dealers, shops, etc. that the basics of checking engine oil, and fluids has been discouraged. Even the covers over the engine have made this thinking prevalent. just my two cents worth.

NateJG

"...My 2008 RX 350 engine burned up...The Engine Check light came on...the temperature gauge was at zero...I thought Engine Check may be...unimportant...I kept driving...The car...was loosing power...I saw smoke coming out of the exhaust and I stopped...the engine was toast...sue Lexus...is out..."

Here's hoping that the excitement over the new replacement vehicle will quickly overshadow the pain over the loss of its predecessor.

NateJG

And the recent models of BMW no longer include a dipstick with which one can check oil - and the onboard electronics can suggest/allow 15,000 or so miles between oil changes.

I retired after a long career with an automotive supplier; and among the top five warranty/failure/complaint issues were:

Shaft Seals, and
Sensors/indicators/switches/contacts

so I'm with you regarding long intervals of reliance on components and service technician diligence.

Today, my aging pickup truck's oil pressure was indicating an approximately 10 PSI fluctuation - so I stopped in the closest parking lot to check the oil level. It was at the full mark. Now I'll be nervous about embarking on any length of trip until a) it stops fluctuating; or b) I verify that the gauge or sending unit is failing -- and replace it/them.

b) will be costly; while a) will forever make me nervous.

Both make me sad.

thomas1

Even Toyota products have eliminated the transmission dip stick. makes it real difficult to do those little checks that give you piece of mind. As for your pickup, oil pump going bad, or something blocking the pickup tube. Hope it is neither....good luck

Turbostar

I just wanted to chime in (as some others have said) that anytime your coolant temp gauge is resting at zero (or the bottom)after the car has had an opportunity to warm up, that alone, IN AND OF ITSELF, is an indicator that something is wrong.