Unbelievable problem rx 350 2009
10-14-11, 04:45 PM
#31
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PA
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My question is this...Lets say my wife put this E85 in the car. (I swear I have never heard the term until they told me) Filled it up. Ran the car until it was almost empty over a 10 days period. How would it run? Would it run?
What kind of damage would it do to the engine if any? I know what diesel fuel looks like. When he showed me the photo that is what it looked like to me. Diesel with clear fuel on top of it.
What kind of damage would it do to the engine if any? I know what diesel fuel looks like. When he showed me the photo that is what it looked like to me. Diesel with clear fuel on top of it.
Wow, what a terrible experience so far! To chime in on E85, yes it would run. It would light the check engine light. When running on E85, an engine requires more of it. In engine talk, the engine would run LEAN because the cars fuel map cannot compensate for needing that much fuel. The computer picks up on the problem and says- Hey, I can't add enough fuel to get the right fuel readings. Light the check engine light.
The time the light takes to light depends on how much gasoline was in there in the first place. Now, as for damage- not much. At most it would REALLY clean the fuel system out. Maybe enough to plug the fuel filter but your car doesn't have a ton of miles on it tho. I don't believe it would run lean enough to ruin any engine parts or corrode and parts. There was a big fuel rail recall for corrosion due to the %10 ethanol in gasoline but that has been fixed. As far as I know all other parts are compatable now.
Ethanol is made from corn and plant matter instead of crude oil. E85 is about 110 octane. That is probably the clear fluid you see. This would account for the check engine light but not the fluid leaking issue. Best of luck and definitely file a complaint with corporate. Stay on them and good luck.
10-14-11, 05:43 PM
#32
Moderator
Just got the call from the dealer. Today it has been a full week. He told me they will have the car until the end of next week maybe longer as they wait for parts. He told me the engine is fine as is the transmission. So I guess that eliminates the E85 problem.
He explained again it was a contaminated cooling system. All under warranty. He said the engine will need to be cleaned as coolant was every where. I know they will never tell the truth or the total truth but I have a feeling somebody added something to the cooling system that he was not supposed to. I remember years ago another wife ago actually and she had a car that she took in for service. Transmission was acting hinky. They were going to check everything including lube and oil change. She got the car back and got a call her mother was in the hospital (not life threatening) . Coworker took her to pick up her car and go. 3 hour drive to Chicago. 30 min later things started happening. She had to have the car towed off the highway. Transmission.
They actually put motor oil in the transmission instead of fluid. I do not know. Anything could happen I guess but at least they are taking care of whatever the problem is. Will let you know how it turns out.
He explained again it was a contaminated cooling system. All under warranty. He said the engine will need to be cleaned as coolant was every where. I know they will never tell the truth or the total truth but I have a feeling somebody added something to the cooling system that he was not supposed to. I remember years ago another wife ago actually and she had a car that she took in for service. Transmission was acting hinky. They were going to check everything including lube and oil change. She got the car back and got a call her mother was in the hospital (not life threatening) . Coworker took her to pick up her car and go. 3 hour drive to Chicago. 30 min later things started happening. She had to have the car towed off the highway. Transmission.
They actually put motor oil in the transmission instead of fluid. I do not know. Anything could happen I guess but at least they are taking care of whatever the problem is. Will let you know how it turns out.
So how can you/them move forward?
Salim
10-14-11, 06:43 PM
#33
Wow, what a terrible experience so far! To chime in on E85, yes it would run. It would light the check engine light. When running on E85, an engine requires more of it. In engine talk, the engine would run LEAN because the cars fuel map cannot compensate for needing that much fuel. The computer picks up on the problem and says- Hey, I can't add enough fuel to get the right fuel readings. Light the check engine light.
The time the light takes to light depends on how much gasoline was in there in the first place. Now, as for damage- not much. At most it would REALLY clean the fuel system out. Maybe enough to plug the fuel filter but your car doesn't have a ton of miles on it tho. I don't believe it would run lean enough to ruin any engine parts or corrode and parts. There was a big fuel rail recall for corrosion due to the %10 ethanol in gasoline but that has been fixed. As far as I know all other parts are compatable now.
Ethanol is made from corn and plant matter instead of crude oil. E85 is about 110 octane. That is probably the clear fluid you see. This would account for the check engine light but not the fluid leaking issue. Best of luck and definitely file a complaint with corporate. Stay on them and good luck.
The time the light takes to light depends on how much gasoline was in there in the first place. Now, as for damage- not much. At most it would REALLY clean the fuel system out. Maybe enough to plug the fuel filter but your car doesn't have a ton of miles on it tho. I don't believe it would run lean enough to ruin any engine parts or corrode and parts. There was a big fuel rail recall for corrosion due to the %10 ethanol in gasoline but that has been fixed. As far as I know all other parts are compatable now.
Ethanol is made from corn and plant matter instead of crude oil. E85 is about 110 octane. That is probably the clear fluid you see. This would account for the check engine light but not the fluid leaking issue. Best of luck and definitely file a complaint with corporate. Stay on them and good luck.
"There is no requirement to post octane on an E85 dispenser. If a retailer chooses to post octane, they should be aware that the often cited 105 octane is incorrect. This number was derived by using ethanol’s blending octane value in gasoline. This is not the proper way to calculate the octane of E85. Ethanol’s true octane value should be used to calculate E85’s octane value. This results in an octane range of 94-96 (R+M)/2. These calculations have been confirmed by actual-octane engine tests." [6]
Examples of this mis-citation can be found at the Iowa Renewable Fuels Association titled "E85 Facts"[7] which cites a range of 100-105, and a document at the Texas State Energy Conservation Office titled "Ethanol"[8], which cites a 113 rating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85
The whole wiki page is a good read.
10-15-11, 04:31 PM
#35
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: nv
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the service manager Ted and I are seeing eye to eye right now.
He knows I know people higher up and also knows I want the truth most of all.
He also knows I am guy that gets things done. LOL. I hope.
He also knows I am a hothead and have no problems causing a ruckus in that dealership.
By ruckus I mean I use a lot of colorful metaphors when expressing my opinion.
The reality is.....I have no other place to go. They own both dealerships.
I will survive.
Life is great...all good.
10-15-11, 04:33 PM
#36
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: nv
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow, what a terrible experience so far! To chime in on E85, yes it would run. It would light the check engine light. When running on E85, an engine requires more of it. In engine talk, the engine would run LEAN because the cars fuel map cannot compensate for needing that much fuel. The computer picks up on the problem and says- Hey, I can't add enough fuel to get the right fuel readings. Light the check engine light.
The time the light takes to light depends on how much gasoline was in there in the first place. Now, as for damage- not much. At most it would REALLY clean the fuel system out. Maybe enough to plug the fuel filter but your car doesn't have a ton of miles on it tho. I don't believe it would run lean enough to ruin any engine parts or corrode and parts. There was a big fuel rail recall for corrosion due to the %10 ethanol in gasoline but that has been fixed. As far as I know all other parts are compatable now.
Ethanol is made from corn and plant matter instead of crude oil. E85 is about 110 octane. That is probably the clear fluid you see. This would account for the check engine light but not the fluid leaking issue. Best of luck and definitely file a complaint with corporate. Stay on them and good luck.
The time the light takes to light depends on how much gasoline was in there in the first place. Now, as for damage- not much. At most it would REALLY clean the fuel system out. Maybe enough to plug the fuel filter but your car doesn't have a ton of miles on it tho. I don't believe it would run lean enough to ruin any engine parts or corrode and parts. There was a big fuel rail recall for corrosion due to the %10 ethanol in gasoline but that has been fixed. As far as I know all other parts are compatable now.
Ethanol is made from corn and plant matter instead of crude oil. E85 is about 110 octane. That is probably the clear fluid you see. This would account for the check engine light but not the fluid leaking issue. Best of luck and definitely file a complaint with corporate. Stay on them and good luck.
J
10-15-11, 04:34 PM
#37
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: nv
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good explanation, though the part about octane is off.
"There is no requirement to post octane on an E85 dispenser. If a retailer chooses to post octane, they should be aware that the often cited 105 octane is incorrect. This number was derived by using ethanol’s blending octane value in gasoline. This is not the proper way to calculate the octane of E85. Ethanol’s true octane value should be used to calculate E85’s octane value. This results in an octane range of 94-96 (R+M)/2. These calculations have been confirmed by actual-octane engine tests." [6]
Examples of this mis-citation can be found at the Iowa Renewable Fuels Association titled "E85 Facts"[7] which cites a range of 100-105, and a document at the Texas State Energy Conservation Office titled "Ethanol"[8], which cites a 113 rating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85
The whole wiki page is a good read.
"There is no requirement to post octane on an E85 dispenser. If a retailer chooses to post octane, they should be aware that the often cited 105 octane is incorrect. This number was derived by using ethanol’s blending octane value in gasoline. This is not the proper way to calculate the octane of E85. Ethanol’s true octane value should be used to calculate E85’s octane value. This results in an octane range of 94-96 (R+M)/2. These calculations have been confirmed by actual-octane engine tests." [6]
Examples of this mis-citation can be found at the Iowa Renewable Fuels Association titled "E85 Facts"[7] which cites a range of 100-105, and a document at the Texas State Energy Conservation Office titled "Ethanol"[8], which cites a 113 rating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85
The whole wiki page is a good read.
10-16-11, 03:36 PM
#38
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PA
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good explanation, though the part about octane is off.
"There is no requirement to post octane on an E85 dispenser. If a retailer chooses to post octane, they should be aware that the often cited 105 octane is incorrect. This number was derived by using ethanol’s blending octane value in gasoline. This is not the proper way to calculate the octane of E85. Ethanol’s true octane value should be used to calculate E85’s octane value. This results in an octane range of 94-96 (R+M)/2. These calculations have been confirmed by actual-octane engine tests." [6]
Examples of this mis-citation can be found at the Iowa Renewable Fuels Association titled "E85 Facts"[7] which cites a range of 100-105, and a document at the Texas State Energy Conservation Office titled "Ethanol"[8], which cites a 113 rating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85
The whole wiki page is a good read.
"There is no requirement to post octane on an E85 dispenser. If a retailer chooses to post octane, they should be aware that the often cited 105 octane is incorrect. This number was derived by using ethanol’s blending octane value in gasoline. This is not the proper way to calculate the octane of E85. Ethanol’s true octane value should be used to calculate E85’s octane value. This results in an octane range of 94-96 (R+M)/2. These calculations have been confirmed by actual-octane engine tests." [6]
Examples of this mis-citation can be found at the Iowa Renewable Fuels Association titled "E85 Facts"[7] which cites a range of 100-105, and a document at the Texas State Energy Conservation Office titled "Ethanol"[8], which cites a 113 rating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85
The whole wiki page is a good read.
10-28-11, 01:37 PM
#39
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: nv
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Today is Friday. The dealer just called and my wifes car is actually ready. I forgot what it looked like. lol.
I asked again what was the problem. I was told ...salt water contamination in the cooling system.
So dear followers it went from not even seeing the problem, to saying there was not problem, to towing it in and still could not understand the problem, bad gas, (I had chili for lunch to 3 weeks later it was salt water contamination from the factory. For a 2009 model that took a long time to surface. What do I know. They fixed it under warranty. Mission accomplished. Thank you. They even replaced the cracked windshield for free. Thank you. They even switched out the sedan loaner for another RX to haul the groceries home. Thank you. I wanted to say, "no thanks I will keep this one. You can keep that one." No dice. LOL.
That is the story folks. Good luck. My faith in humanity is restored. Moral of the the story? Question authority. Raise Hell and don't take no for an answer.
I asked again what was the problem. I was told ...salt water contamination in the cooling system.
So dear followers it went from not even seeing the problem, to saying there was not problem, to towing it in and still could not understand the problem, bad gas, (I had chili for lunch
to 3 weeks later it was salt water contamination from the factory. For a 2009 model that took a long time to surface. What do I know. They fixed it under warranty. Mission accomplished. Thank you. They even replaced the cracked windshield for free. Thank you. They even switched out the sedan loaner for another RX to haul the groceries home. Thank you. I wanted to say, "no thanks I will keep this one. You can keep that one." No dice. LOL.That is the story folks. Good luck. My faith in humanity is restored. Moral of the the story? Question authority. Raise Hell and don't take no for an answer.
10-28-11, 05:33 PM
#41
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: nv
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
UPDATE!!!
Wife just picked up the car. It was detailed, cleaned, replaced the windshield, even filled with fuel.
They apologized profusely to her for all of the trouble. She had to sign off on the repairs all covered by warranty.
The total itemized cost was just under $7000.00.
When she told me I almost fell out of the chair. $7k. Wow! Any comments? I would love to hear them.
Wife just picked up the car. It was detailed, cleaned, replaced the windshield, even filled with fuel.
They apologized profusely to her for all of the trouble. She had to sign off on the repairs all covered by warranty.
The total itemized cost was just under $7000.00.
When she told me I almost fell out of the chair. $7k. Wow! Any comments? I would love to hear them.
10-31-11, 11:32 AM
#45
Driver
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds like a somewhat happy ending after all. Good to hear.
I do have a question though. Does the E85 nozzle even fit in a non E85 vehicle? I thought I pulled up to a E85 station by mistake once and couldn't fill up as the nozzle was too big.
I know this problem has nothing to do with E85, but it was mentioned..
I do have a question though. Does the E85 nozzle even fit in a non E85 vehicle? I thought I pulled up to a E85 station by mistake once and couldn't fill up as the nozzle was too big.
I know this problem has nothing to do with E85, but it was mentioned..