tire selection - Page 2

jfelbab · 11-06-09, 08:15 AM

There have been so many owners here talking about going to larger tire and/or wheels on their RX that I wanted to address the critical issue of unsprung weight. It seems noone is giving this any concern when making their tire choices. This is a huge mistake, IMO.

I'd strongly advise you to learn what unsprung weight is and how it will affect your vehicles performance. Learn how adding as little as 4 pounds of unsprung weight to a wheel will equate to around 200 pounds of sprung weight to the vehicles handling. Learn how this will cost you grip and reduce the handling performance of your vehicle. If you learn anything about unsprung weight you will conclude that it is bad and that reducing it will improve your handling significantly.

Here area a couple of articles by Eric Albert to get your started.

http://hondaswap.com/general-tech-ar...art-1-a-29057/
http://hondaswap.com/general-tech-ar...art-2-a-29058/

These are probably the most informed and well explained articles on this subject on the Web.

Anyone who autocrosses already knows this to be true but just in case you don't, given identical vehicles, the one with less unsprung weight will almost always outperform the heavier one. If you feel you want a heavier tire for appearance reasons maybe you can go with lighter wheels to compensate for the tire weight. If you think a wider tire will automatically make your vehicle handle better you could be very mistaken. Always be aware of any added tire weight when you choose a tire and try to stay close to the OEM or even below the OEM weight if you are trying to improve handling and ride.

asianrage · 11-06-09, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfelbab

There have been so many owners here talking about going to larger tire and/or wheels on their RX that I wanted to address the critical issue of unsprung weight. It seems noone is giving this any concern when making their tire choices. This is a huge mistake, IMO.

I'd strongly advise you to learn what unsprung weight is and how it will affect your vehicles performance. Learn how adding as little as 4 pounds of unsprung weight to a wheel will equate to around 200 pounds of sprung weight to the vehicles handling. Learn how this will cost you grip and reduce the handling performance of your vehicle. If you learn anything about unsprung weight you will conclude that it is bad and that reducing it will improve your handling significantly.

Here area a couple of articles by Eric Albert to get your started.

http://hondaswap.com/general-tech-ar...art-1-a-29057/
http://hondaswap.com/general-tech-ar...art-2-a-29058/

These are probably the most informed and well explained articles on this subject on the Web.

Anyone who autocrosses already knows this to be true but just in case you don't, given identical vehicles, the one with less unsprung weight will almost always outperform the heavier one. If you feel you want a heavier tire for appearance reasons maybe you can go with lighter wheels to compensate for the tire weight. If you think a wider tire will automatically make your vehicle handle better you could be very mistaken. Always be aware of any added tire weight when you choose a tire and try to stay close to the OEM or even below the OEM weight if you are trying to improve handling and ride.

May I ask why you decided to go with the Alenza. What was your factory tire size? Did you go with a lighter set of wheels? Just curious.

Mine was the Michelin MXV4 S8 and at the the 235/55-18 size, the same sized Alenza was 4lbs heavier (@ 33lbs vs 29lbs). I went with the 255/55-18 size of my Nitto nT420s at an additional 2lbs (35lbs) extra, which was 3lbs (per tire) less than the Dueler Alenza with the same size (38lbs).

jfelbab · 11-06-09, 06:23 PM

When I replaced the tires on my RX330 (235/55/18) there were few choices available. Basically just three, Michelin, Goodyear and Bridgestone. The Goodyears were the OEM on my RX and they handled poorly and wore even worse. I had driven two 330's with Michelin and they were very bouncy. The Alenza was getting great reviews and outstanding treadwear. They have a 1.2 inches wider tread patch than the Goodyears of the same size and 2/32 deeper tread depth. The Alenzas came with a 5 year 65k mile treadlife warranty and neither Michelin nor Goodyear had any warranty.

If you analyze the info at TireRack.com for these three tires you would probably conclude that the Bridgestone was worth a look.

Michelin Energy MXV4 S8 / Goodyear Eagle RS-A / Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza

The result: I am satisfied with my purchase. Had I stuck with the Goodyears I'd have had to replace them again by now. I chose the Alenza for it's treadwear and since I do 80%+ of my driving on the highway I wanted a Highway tire. I also have to drive in snow and ice so I wanted a tire with better control in that environment. I also wanted a quieter tire as the Goodyears were quite loud.

If I had to make the choice today I'd probably pick the Yokohama Parada Spec-X. This tire has a full 2" wider tread width than the Goodyear of the same size, is only 1 pound heavier and has excellent snow and ice ratings as well as handling and quietness.

asianrage · 11-06-09, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfelbab

When I replaced the tires on my RX330 (235/55/18) there were few choices available. Basically just three, Michelin, Goodyear and Bridgestone. The Goodyears were the OEM on my RX and they handled poorly and wore even worse. I had driven two 330's with Michelin and they were very bouncy. The Alenza was getting great reviews and outstanding treadwear. They have a 1.2 inches wider tread patch than the Goodyears of the same size and 2/32 deeper tread depth. The Alenzas came with a 5 year 65k mile treadlife warranty and neither Michelin nor Goodyear had any warranty.

If you analyze the info at TireRack.com for these three tires you would probably conclude that the Bridgestone was worth a look.

Michelin Energy MXV4 S8 / Goodyear Eagle RS-A / Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza

The result: I am satisfied with my purchase. Had I stuck with the Goodyears I'd have had to replace them again by now. I chose the Alenza for it's treadwear and since I do 80%+ of my driving on the highway I wanted a Highway tire. I also have to drive in snow and ice so I wanted a tire with better control in that environment. I also wanted a quieter tire as the Goodyears were quite loud.

If I had to make the choice today I'd probably pick the Yokohama Parada Spec-X. This tire has a full 2" wider tread width than the Goodyear of the same size, is only 1 pound heavier and has excellent snow and ice ratings as well as handling and quietness.

While shopping for new tires, I found that the goodyear got horrible reviews from most of the sites I was visiting, including TR.com. I wasn't going to spend money to replace the Michelin given how squirmy it is when doing some cornering work. It did last over 50K miles so that's one positive. But i didn't want to spend anymore than i have to.

My choices were down to the Bridgestone Alenza, Kumho Venture, Toyo STII, and Nitto NT420s. All were getting good reviews. But the Venture were too heavy in general despite being the cheapest. The Alenza was the most expensive. Leaving on the Toyo and Nitto. I couldn't find out how much the Toyo weighs so I couldn't commit. So based on the budget that I had worked out with my wife, I was stretching it just enough to get the Nitto.

I do regret that it is 35lbs and much heavier than I would have preferred since it does affect my gas mileage. But it is such a big difference driving the car now. The car feels very planted and handling capabilities has been improved drastically. No more would I hear the tire squealing when you round the cloverleaf of the freeway entrance. I drove through heavy, heavy rain storm today and never did I feel any hesitation through the steering wheel. Plus, it is smooth riding and quiet in normal situation as well, especially if you like the Michelin.

Worth it? Yeah. If I were to do it again, I think I would have gone with a 255/50-18 sizing instead, which would have resulted in a 2lbs difference (31lbs).

chmod · 11-19-09, 09:54 AM

We drive a 2007 400H.

I upgraded and upsized to the Bridgestone Alenzas - but went with 255 x 55 x18 from the stock 235 x 55. Purely from the standpoint of appearance, it is a remarkable upgrade - the car now looks balanced. Previously it looked like it was perched, balanced on skinny tyres.

Yes, they are more heavy than the stock tires, and I am very familiar with the issue of unsprung weight. But the difference in how the care "feels" is substantial, in addition to being simply superior when the roads are very wet.

The Michelins felt like raw steel on their finals days, and despite being trouble free the car never previously felt grippy when on twisty roads. The larger footprint imparts a very discernible feel to the car.

I accept the penalty of MPG, whatever it may be. It might be 1-2 MPG, it might not - it depends how the car is driven during a given tank. I mean if you fret that sort of issue, and it is clearly your right to do so, I have no comment.

I simply know the cars feels and handles better for us, the way we drive and under the conditions which we travel.

chmod

jgr7 · 11-19-09, 08:46 PM

I just put the Dueler H/Ls on my 08RX. About 28K on the Michelins that came stock, had a nail ruin one and instead of buying 2 with winter coming I just bought 4 of the Duelers. I do feel a little bit harder ride but I haven't checked what pressure they aired them to yet. I will be heading to Tahoe this weekend but I'm not sure if it will still be snowing when I travel.
Jeff

jfelbab · 11-19-09, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgr7

I just put the Dueler H/Ls on my 08RX. About 28K on the Michelins that came stock, had a nail ruin one and instead of buying 2 with winter coming I just bought 4 of the Duelers. I do feel a little bit harder ride but I haven't checked what pressure they aired them to yet. I will be heading to Tahoe this weekend but I'm not sure if it will still be snowing when I travel.
Jeff

For a comfortable, more luxury, feel I air them to 30-32 psi. For a firmer, stiffer ride, I fill them to around 35 psi. On the highway I find 35psi works very well for comfort and mileage.

andrewr · Yesterday, 07:33 AM

Anyone look at Continental ContiProContact? Cost less than the Michelin OE, 1lb lighter and similar characteristics.

zgar · Yesterday, 06:31 PM

Last Wednesday, I replace the stock Michellins with Alenzas. Got 40k out of the Michellins.
Was bummed when I saw that Discount Tire started a $100 rebate on Thursday, but one call to their store and they gladly re-issued a new invoice so I can get the $100 rebate!
I think the rebate is only for CA and only until 11/21.