Love My RXus...but...some questionable design choices for an otherwise perfect car
08-24-07, 02:56 PM
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Love My RXus...but...some questionable design choices for an otherwise perfect car
Recently bought an RX330, great car, love driving it overall. It is not complaint-free however, and some of Lexus' choices just don't make sense for such a refined aurtomobile:
Road Noise - The inner cabin is whisper quiet, but on all but the silkiest of roads, you can hear a pretty consistant grind of the tires or wheels or axles, I'm not sure which...on some roads it's so grindy and tactile, it sounds like your rolling down the road on the rims sans tires. Feels cushy enough under there, just noisy, why couldn't they handle that?
No Left Leg Room - As on most Toyota products, there is an angled, rubber-padded foot support for the driver's left foot. Toyota's had this forever, my wife's '93 Land Crusier has it. Resting your left foot here, which bends your knee up, is OK for a while, but on longer trips you want to fully stretch out your leg. Can't do it, there's no space to put your extended foot. If you try extending it to the inside of the foot suport, your leg gets cocked at a funny angle and your foot ends up underneath the brake pedal, not good. You can, of course, power the driver's seat back to the point where your leg is at full extension while resting your foot on the pad, but by then you're too far from the steering wheel, which they made extendable, but not extendable enough, unless you've got Mr. Fantastic's arms. Japanese folks are short, and they seem to have trouble designing non-claustrophobic seating for the American market.
Audio/Voice Navi System Weirdness - The stock audio system that comes with the RX is mediocre at best. The EQ choices are minimal, the speaker choices are cryptic - POS FRONT, REAR, ALL, DRIVER doesn't tell you which speakers actually on or off, and even with speakers and EQ chosen for most power, it still sounds kinda canned and not like a fine audio system. My RX doesn't have the Mark Levinson, but threads here say it's still not nearly as good as a better aftermarket amp and a couple higher end speakers. I don't even know where the amp is located in this car, how much RMS power it's throwing, or where a sub-woofer is installed, if there even is one. And what's with a tape deck!!, This is 2007 for chrissake, who the heck listens to tapes anymore?! How come they made sure there was a tape deck, but neglected a simple front-mounted Aux In plug for your iPod?! The audio design dept. is obviously from another era (pre-Elvis!)
The Voice Navigation on my RX is a total disaster. There are supposed to over 100 voice commands the system easily recognizes, but Lexus makes it arcanely difficult to get a complete list, or to even identify which version you're working with. Lexus Customer Service told me I had the "latest version 4". 4 is not the latest version, there is a version 5, but they didn't tell me that. In order to get a full version 4 list, I had to search it on this forum. The list Lexus directs you to, the Help screen on the Navi System itself, doesn't even list half the available commands. Worst of all, it consistently misreads my voice commands, offering me POI icons and other crap that's nowhere near the words I spoke. And no, I don't have an accent, and I speak very clearly. Virtually useless!
This is a hot car...but this is a HOT car - In So. California and other hot climates, the ventilation system quickly shows its inadequacy. The inside of the car starts out hot on sunny days...not abnormal, but driving on a beach highway at 69 degrees outside, with windows up and AC/Recirculate off, I cannot cool down the cabin just with the regular vents open. For some reason, the air coming through the vents is decidedly warmer than the air outside, almost as if the engine is heating it up first. Opening the windows at 75mph would be too loud, and I can of course turn on the AC, but I shouldn't have to when it's only 69 outside. Toyota makes stuffy cars.
Voice your own thoughts/responses if you have 'em
Road Noise - The inner cabin is whisper quiet, but on all but the silkiest of roads, you can hear a pretty consistant grind of the tires or wheels or axles, I'm not sure which...on some roads it's so grindy and tactile, it sounds like your rolling down the road on the rims sans tires. Feels cushy enough under there, just noisy, why couldn't they handle that?
No Left Leg Room - As on most Toyota products, there is an angled, rubber-padded foot support for the driver's left foot. Toyota's had this forever, my wife's '93 Land Crusier has it. Resting your left foot here, which bends your knee up, is OK for a while, but on longer trips you want to fully stretch out your leg. Can't do it, there's no space to put your extended foot. If you try extending it to the inside of the foot suport, your leg gets cocked at a funny angle and your foot ends up underneath the brake pedal, not good. You can, of course, power the driver's seat back to the point where your leg is at full extension while resting your foot on the pad, but by then you're too far from the steering wheel, which they made extendable, but not extendable enough, unless you've got Mr. Fantastic's arms. Japanese folks are short, and they seem to have trouble designing non-claustrophobic seating for the American market.
Audio/Voice Navi System Weirdness - The stock audio system that comes with the RX is mediocre at best. The EQ choices are minimal, the speaker choices are cryptic - POS FRONT, REAR, ALL, DRIVER doesn't tell you which speakers actually on or off, and even with speakers and EQ chosen for most power, it still sounds kinda canned and not like a fine audio system. My RX doesn't have the Mark Levinson, but threads here say it's still not nearly as good as a better aftermarket amp and a couple higher end speakers. I don't even know where the amp is located in this car, how much RMS power it's throwing, or where a sub-woofer is installed, if there even is one. And what's with a tape deck!!, This is 2007 for chrissake, who the heck listens to tapes anymore?! How come they made sure there was a tape deck, but neglected a simple front-mounted Aux In plug for your iPod?! The audio design dept. is obviously from another era (pre-Elvis!)
The Voice Navigation on my RX is a total disaster. There are supposed to over 100 voice commands the system easily recognizes, but Lexus makes it arcanely difficult to get a complete list, or to even identify which version you're working with. Lexus Customer Service told me I had the "latest version 4". 4 is not the latest version, there is a version 5, but they didn't tell me that. In order to get a full version 4 list, I had to search it on this forum. The list Lexus directs you to, the Help screen on the Navi System itself, doesn't even list half the available commands. Worst of all, it consistently misreads my voice commands, offering me POI icons and other crap that's nowhere near the words I spoke. And no, I don't have an accent, and I speak very clearly. Virtually useless!
This is a hot car...but this is a HOT car - In So. California and other hot climates, the ventilation system quickly shows its inadequacy. The inside of the car starts out hot on sunny days...not abnormal, but driving on a beach highway at 69 degrees outside, with windows up and AC/Recirculate off, I cannot cool down the cabin just with the regular vents open. For some reason, the air coming through the vents is decidedly warmer than the air outside, almost as if the engine is heating it up first. Opening the windows at 75mph would be too loud, and I can of course turn on the AC, but I shouldn't have to when it's only 69 outside. Toyota makes stuffy cars.
Voice your own thoughts/responses if you have 'em
08-24-07, 03:28 PM
#2
there is no such thing as a perfect car, each car will have its flaws. However, RX330 has less flaws than others.
To be on the honest side, I really don't see a point in your post... If you don't like the stereo, get an aftermarket one with a better sound. If you don't like the navigation, get a better one. That's exactly the reason why better products are made out there. It's not possible to include the latest and greatest on the car, something better will always be out there. So once again, what's your point? Or you're simply whining since someone forced you to get RX?
To be on the honest side, I really don't see a point in your post... If you don't like the stereo, get an aftermarket one with a better sound. If you don't like the navigation, get a better one. That's exactly the reason why better products are made out there. It's not possible to include the latest and greatest on the car, something better will always be out there. So once again, what's your point? Or you're simply whining since someone forced you to get RX?
08-24-07, 04:27 PM
#3
Out of Warranty
Lexus does not simply vent outside air into the cabin, unlike a number of other makes. The RX's climate control system is designed to first cool outside air to extract humidity then warm it to the thermostat setpoint. It sounds inefficient, but if you lived in the sweltering humidity of the Gulf Coast, you'd understand the value of this feature.
If you shut off the AC, you are left with only slightly warmed air flowing into the cabin. If you want outside air, turn the system off and open a window. Yes, I know it sounds like Lexus is enforcing its "superior knowledge" on you, but just go with the flow . . .
If you shut off the AC, you are left with only slightly warmed air flowing into the cabin. If you want outside air, turn the system off and open a window. Yes, I know it sounds like Lexus is enforcing its "superior knowledge" on you, but just go with the flow . . .
08-24-07, 06:56 PM
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Recently purchased my 2008 350 w/premium and I agree that it is a nice car but certainly not exceptional. True, there are no perfect cars but honestly I did expect a lot more from Lexus. I agree about the noisy interior on the road. It sounds as though there is no insulation over the rear wheel wells. It can be annoying and requires the radio being on or open windows to mask it. This should be an area that differentiates Lexus from the rest of the pack.
I can't understand why the standard (non NAV) radio is not bluetooth compatible for a 2008 model year. Next to drunk driving, cell phone accidents are the number 2 cause of highway fatalities. Cell phones are even being banned in some communities while driving a car unless you have a hands free setup. Rite or wrong, this is a cell phone society we live in and not having Bluetooth is a safety hazard. Yet, with one of the highest end manufacturers on the planet, this is absent. I think you can get it on a Ford focus.
I wonder why the controls that are most often manipulated are the farthest from the driver (information display, mode switch, etc.)
I was not thrilled with the pre-packaged options but honestly no manufacturer can please everyone. I would have considered getting NAV because its the only way to get Bluetooth. However, I hate HID lights. I will never have them on a car unless standard halogen lamps become extinct. But with lexus, you have to get both. The interesting thing is the NAV is the same one used in the Camry and it only added $800.00 to our deal on my wife's 2007 XLE.
I would love this vehicle if it had the ES350 seats in the front. The difference in comfort is absolute night and day. To me the standard RX front seats feel like a wooden bench. I did just come from owning a Volvo so I guess it's not a very fair comparison. With these seats I can't fathom ever taking a lengthy trip.
As I said, I expected more from Lexus. It is a good car but I think I'll drive it a few years and look elsewhere. I feel like I spent a very large amount of money for a vehicle that really doesn't offer much more than a Highlander. At least not enough to justify the cost difference.
I can't understand why the standard (non NAV) radio is not bluetooth compatible for a 2008 model year. Next to drunk driving, cell phone accidents are the number 2 cause of highway fatalities. Cell phones are even being banned in some communities while driving a car unless you have a hands free setup. Rite or wrong, this is a cell phone society we live in and not having Bluetooth is a safety hazard. Yet, with one of the highest end manufacturers on the planet, this is absent. I think you can get it on a Ford focus.
I wonder why the controls that are most often manipulated are the farthest from the driver (information display, mode switch, etc.)
I was not thrilled with the pre-packaged options but honestly no manufacturer can please everyone. I would have considered getting NAV because its the only way to get Bluetooth. However, I hate HID lights. I will never have them on a car unless standard halogen lamps become extinct. But with lexus, you have to get both. The interesting thing is the NAV is the same one used in the Camry and it only added $800.00 to our deal on my wife's 2007 XLE.
I would love this vehicle if it had the ES350 seats in the front. The difference in comfort is absolute night and day. To me the standard RX front seats feel like a wooden bench. I did just come from owning a Volvo so I guess it's not a very fair comparison. With these seats I can't fathom ever taking a lengthy trip.
As I said, I expected more from Lexus. It is a good car but I think I'll drive it a few years and look elsewhere. I feel like I spent a very large amount of money for a vehicle that really doesn't offer much more than a Highlander. At least not enough to justify the cost difference.
08-24-07, 08:48 PM
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This is the only thing I can sort of agree with you on. I notice that while driving, I always have my left foot resting (bent) on its outer side. It's the most comfortable position that I found naturally. I've tried driving with it on the foot rest, but it feels weird (feels like I'm too relaxed). I've tried resting it on a normal stance, but it gets in the way of the steering wheel/arm movement (the roads on Maui are almost never straight-aways).
My A/C has been top notch. Cools down the cabin within 6 minutes or so.
I love the stock sound. Sounds sweet with my iPod, regardless of the cassette adapter
The road noise is probably a sign you need new tires. It made a world of difference on my 330, especially over cracks and the reflector/lane dots. There's one section of road I travel on daily, which has always made a loud hum audible through the tires (old & new, same sound), so that may be it as well.
Overall, I love my 330. It's right upon its 4th birthday, and just shy of 62k mi. I've never kept a car this long! It feels, sounds & drives like brand new.
My A/C has been top notch. Cools down the cabin within 6 minutes or so.
I love the stock sound. Sounds sweet with my iPod, regardless of the cassette adapter
The road noise is probably a sign you need new tires. It made a world of difference on my 330, especially over cracks and the reflector/lane dots. There's one section of road I travel on daily, which has always made a loud hum audible through the tires (old & new, same sound), so that may be it as well.
Overall, I love my 330. It's right upon its 4th birthday, and just shy of 62k mi. I've never kept a car this long! It feels, sounds & drives like brand new.
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08-24-07, 09:10 PM
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Like everyone here, I've participated in many forums on many subjects. There's always good, useful replies that truly address the issues raised, but too often lately there's a few jerks who insist you are whining or trolling if you open up a discussion about some of the downsides of the featured product. Isn't the purpose of these forums to discuss ALL aspects of this car, to discuss ALL experiences people are having with it, or just the good ones. How can these forums help someone find solutions to problems, or contribute to future improvements, if you're only allowed to bring up the "got-it-right" aspects of the vehicle, but not the "what-were-they-thinking" parts?
I agree no car is perfect, but along with Lexus' high-brow advertising image and upscale price comes high-brow, upscale expectations. That doesn't mean they have to get everything perfect; it does mean they can be asked to live up to their hype, and can be called to task if something as basic as excessive road noise (in a car that's advertised to be super quiet & luxurious) or the foolishness of leaving out an aux in plug but including a cassette deck (in a car that's advertised to be on the cutting edge of technological advances) is dumped on customers.
Saying "if you don't like the existing navi/voice system, rip it out and get another one" is an asinine response, when Lexus charges you heftily for those items and promises you they're gonna work. Why don't we all just spend $50K-100K on a car, then rip out everything that doesn't work and replace it with what works, at our expense, that's the spirit! God forbid we should hold the company accountable for delivering on its promises, and God help you if you should dare post these points on a forum full of uptight forum police like this.
I agree no car is perfect, but along with Lexus' high-brow advertising image and upscale price comes high-brow, upscale expectations. That doesn't mean they have to get everything perfect; it does mean they can be asked to live up to their hype, and can be called to task if something as basic as excessive road noise (in a car that's advertised to be super quiet & luxurious) or the foolishness of leaving out an aux in plug but including a cassette deck (in a car that's advertised to be on the cutting edge of technological advances) is dumped on customers.
Saying "if you don't like the existing navi/voice system, rip it out and get another one" is an asinine response, when Lexus charges you heftily for those items and promises you they're gonna work. Why don't we all just spend $50K-100K on a car, then rip out everything that doesn't work and replace it with what works, at our expense, that's the spirit! God forbid we should hold the company accountable for delivering on its promises, and God help you if you should dare post these points on a forum full of uptight forum police like this.
08-24-07, 09:18 PM
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Thanks for the useful feedback, Lil4x and Neversatisfied. I'd love it if just a tire change could significantly reduce the road noise. Mine came with Goodyear Eagles, and they only have 10K miles, so there' still pretty new. Many Lexuses come with Michelins standard, I wonder if they make a big road noise difference?
08-24-07, 11:45 PM
#11
i hate when people cant admit that their car has issues. i always thought that the AC in the car isnt very strong. the audio system isnt that great i still dont get what the POS button does. as for road noise im sure its there i havent heard it since i drive with the radio up loud all the time.
08-25-07, 12:25 AM
#12
sethym, once agian, nobody is forcing you to buy RX330. If the car has so many issues in your opinion, why did you buy it? There are plenty of other cars on the market that have the features you're looking for around the same amount. However, as you probably can guess, better options cost more money and require some upgrades if the basic setup doesn't suit your needs. If RX wasn't a good value (assuming the problems you're seeing), why did you buy the car and now whining? Sorry, we can't extend the leg room for you or address how that can be resolved.
We can provide you opinions on how to improve the stereo sound or get a better navigation. With Lexus you're paying for the brand name and for the image, the car inside is essentialy the same Highlander everyone is driving. Do you think RollsRoyce has the greatest stereo in the world, even although the car costs $500k? Probably not... This is not a whining forum, we don't make cars here or take design ideas. If you want a good advice, describe the situation and tell us what you're looking for. And of course, be reasonable without whining like a baby.
- Andrey
We can provide you opinions on how to improve the stereo sound or get a better navigation. With Lexus you're paying for the brand name and for the image, the car inside is essentialy the same Highlander everyone is driving. Do you think RollsRoyce has the greatest stereo in the world, even although the car costs $500k? Probably not... This is not a whining forum, we don't make cars here or take design ideas. If you want a good advice, describe the situation and tell us what you're looking for. And of course, be reasonable without whining like a baby.
- Andrey
Like everyone here, I've participated in many forums on many subjects. There's always good, useful replies that truly address the issues raised, but too often lately there's a few jerks who insist you are whining or trolling if you open up a discussion about some of the downsides of the featured product. Isn't the purpose of these forums to discuss ALL aspects of this car, to discuss ALL experiences people are having with it, or just the good ones. How can these forums help someone find solutions to problems, or contribute to future improvements, if you're only allowed to bring up the "got-it-right" aspects of the vehicle, but not the "what-were-they-thinking" parts?
I agree no car is perfect, but along with Lexus' high-brow advertising image and upscale price comes high-brow, upscale expectations. That doesn't mean they have to get everything perfect; it does mean they can be asked to live up to their hype, and can be called to task if something as basic as excessive road noise (in a car that's advertised to be super quiet & luxurious) or the foolishness of leaving out an aux in plug but including a cassette deck (in a car that's advertised to be on the cutting edge of technological advances) is dumped on customers.
Saying "if you don't like the existing navi/voice system, rip it out and get another one" is an asinine response, when Lexus charges you heftily for those items and promises you they're gonna work. Why don't we all just spend $50K-100K on a car, then rip out everything that doesn't work and replace it with what works, at our expense, that's the spirit! God forbid we should hold the company accountable for delivering on its promises, and God help you if you should dare post these points on a forum full of uptight forum police like this.
I agree no car is perfect, but along with Lexus' high-brow advertising image and upscale price comes high-brow, upscale expectations. That doesn't mean they have to get everything perfect; it does mean they can be asked to live up to their hype, and can be called to task if something as basic as excessive road noise (in a car that's advertised to be super quiet & luxurious) or the foolishness of leaving out an aux in plug but including a cassette deck (in a car that's advertised to be on the cutting edge of technological advances) is dumped on customers.
Saying "if you don't like the existing navi/voice system, rip it out and get another one" is an asinine response, when Lexus charges you heftily for those items and promises you they're gonna work. Why don't we all just spend $50K-100K on a car, then rip out everything that doesn't work and replace it with what works, at our expense, that's the spirit! God forbid we should hold the company accountable for delivering on its promises, and God help you if you should dare post these points on a forum full of uptight forum police like this.
08-25-07, 01:34 AM
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well i admit the car has got some flaws too.
the road noise is an issue especially since here the speed limits are higher. i got dunlop tyres. hopefully after a tyre change it will reduce.
a passenger side seat memory would be good, along with a start button and an aux input of course
its currently about 55 degrees celsius (130F)here and my rx is parked outside always. the ac on recirculate mode still cools down the car very fast and i never have to turn the climate control below 23 degrees cel (73.5F)as any lower and car will be ice cold. maybe we get a different cooling system and radiator for the middle east?
the road noise is an issue especially since here the speed limits are higher. i got dunlop tyres. hopefully after a tyre change it will reduce.
a passenger side seat memory would be good, along with a start button and an aux input of course
its currently about 55 degrees celsius (130F)here and my rx is parked outside always. the ac on recirculate mode still cools down the car very fast and i never have to turn the climate control below 23 degrees cel (73.5F)as any lower and car will be ice cold. maybe we get a different cooling system and radiator for the middle east?
08-25-07, 06:54 AM
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Thanks for the useful feedback, Lil4x and Neversatisfied. I'd love it if just a tire change could significantly reduce the road noise. Mine came with Goodyear Eagles, and they only have 10K miles, so there' still pretty new. Many Lexuses come with Michelins standard, I wonder if they make a big road noise difference?
08-25-07, 07:41 AM
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My Two Cents
Also, in an earlier post, you indicated what you consider flaws in the RX330. After reading your posts, my sense is that these not flaws but only your assertions of what you see as flaws based on your level of expectation. I and many others, indeed probably the majority of participants reading your posts, disagree with your criticisms. My exception is the tire noise (which has not been an issue on my AWD car). I think the stereo sounds great, the ride is quiet and sure footed, the foot room and steering wheel are just right, etc etc. I have essentially no complaints about the vehicle. I have the nav system in my new Prius, which I believe is pretty similar to the Lexus, and I love it.
I suspect my level of expectation may be lower than yours since anything made by the hand of man is, by nature, imperfect and subject to interpretation. That's my take, fwiw. Good luck with your new vehicle and check out the Michelins.
Vince