thaeleelyr

Thanks for the tips. Prior to finding this forum, when I first got this car, I had asked around some shops as to which components were needed and I was quickly put onto Gates as being the "best". After this and talking with their techs, it will be a cold day in hell before I use them again for anything.

I did count the sprocket grooves between old and new and the marks are on (both Gates - 59 sprocket divets). When I pulled everything off, I thought each pulley cam looked a little off center, towards each other. I chalked it up to being overly anxious and a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to lining things up, but now I'm wondering if the crappy mechanic I accidentally went to after I moved tweaked the installation a bit to make the belt fit.

At this point I've decided to order the Mitsuboshi/Aisin kit. I think you guys might be right, all the components together might be a bit off and resulting in this mess. At least if I have to fight it to get on and something shifts, I'll know it's supposed to do that.

When it gets here, I'll let you guys know how it went. One thing: am I supposed to put gasket sealant on the metal water gasket or not? My gut said no because of the rubber seal on the metal. Gates says "yes", then "no", then "ummm...it doesn't matter". I'm not seeing anything in the manual about using sealant, but I want to make sure. Also, is there a particular type of sealant, if needed. Oh, and do any of you use thread locker for all the bolts going on or just the one pulley?

Thanks!

jnovak01

While you are not required to put a sealant on I actually do smear a little on the base of the water pump when I replace it. It certainly cannot hurt. I don't put much on as there is a seal on the water pumps already. I have not had one leak on me yet. If I remember correctly the marks on the sprockets do not line up exactly on the stamping for the covers. I don't recall how many belt teeth are between the sprockets and from the right sprocket to the crank though that was the one I am always concerned, or afraid - take your pick, of getting wrong. I always replace the one bearing between the sprockets.
Here is a link to a YT video - it may help.
The right sprocket is easy to get the belt on correctly. It is the left sprocket that you cannot see. I have to use my inspection mirror angled to see the sprocket and the mark for it.

When you receive the kit your tensioner will have a pin on the shaft - do not pull the pin until the belt is fully installed and set on the sprockets and crank. Once its pulled if the belt is not timed correctly you will have to remove the tensioner and then compress the shaft again and insert the pin. If this happens don't sweat it. You can always compress the tensioner. The hard part may be aligning the hole in the shaft with the pin but it can be done with a vise.

jnovak01

One more thing. In the video it shows one tie wrap per sprocket. I have had good luck with two tie wraps on each sprocket. I place each tie wrap at the farthest point I can that will grip the timing belt and the sprocket. This helps in that IF the sprockets move accidentally you don't have to worry about the belt jumping a tooth on the sprocket.

Good Luck.

thaeleelyr

Thanks for all of that. I took a look at the video and it seems they didn't bother with the sealant. I didn't think it was needed with the rubber edge on the gasket, but Gates techs couldn't make up their minds on that. There seems to be a little spot on the engine block that is rough, so I may put a little there to make sure things seal.

As for my firewall cam, with the belt on, its now a full sprocket off the mark on the TB cover. That just seems too much.

We're on stand-by now. The kit should be in tomorrow sometime but the weather forecast has changed abruptly to rain. It looks like this is going together on Monday.

thaeleelyr

Update: the new belt slipped right on - no problems. I haven't started him up yet, but at least the belt is on correctly and everything seems to be lining up they way it should.

Thanks for all of your help!

jnovak01

That's great news. Good luck. Let everyone know how it works. I am curious why the other belt was off one full tooth. It would be interesting to know why this was so.

Joe

salimshah

Marking on belt is to help in instal. Some belts dont even have any markings. The cam and main pulley marks and there position relative to the marking on the engine block are the important match marks.
Foxing my error here ... In there are +-1 tooth on the belt, then you are counting on the tensioner to compensate.

I just ordered my kit.

Salim

thaeleelyr

Fired him up and he's running great. I lost that tic-tic sound, too. I haven't taken him for a test drive as I was busy getting air bubbles out of the power steering until dark. Yes, I pulled that off too while awaiting the Aisin kit. I took pictures, so I might do a write-up on that if anyone is interested.

It seems I neglected to post the differences between the two belts/kits.

Gates:
Timing Belt
210 sprocket divots
59 sprocket divots between cam pulleys
Bearings look like Koyo, but no boxes
Water Pump: No name
Water Pump gasket: metal with rubber seal attached. Feels less solid than Aisin.
Tensioner: ? no box

Mitsuboshi:
Timing Belt
211 sprocket divots
60 sprocket divots between cam pulleys
Koyo bearings in branded boxes
Water Pump: Aisin
Water pump gasket: metal with rubber seal attached. Feel more solid than Gates brand.
Tensioner: in it's own box.

I did get the kit with new tensioner, but I forgot to compare the two before the Gates was returned.

Overall both belts appear to be the same size, but when I matched up the cam pulley marks, the Mitsuboshi had a little bit more belt length to it, which makes sense given the extra divot. I recall the counts between the crankshaft and the radiator side cam pulley were off between the two belts as well. Gates was 77 divots, Mitsuboshi was 76 divots (it might have been 78, I didn't write it down). I was a little worried about that, but it fit even easier.

The Gates ended up being a full sprocket off because that is the only way to get it on, but I remember it being not quite off by a full divot. That missing divot on the Gates shifts everything just enough to mess up the belt installation. My timing marks were spot on.

salimshah

I am thinking off skipping the Cam seal replacement for the 2nd tb replacement. Not too exited about working blind on the cabin side. I will buy bolts to pull the gear off the main ... that seal I plan to change,

Encouragements are welcome.

Salim

kalali

How did the old belt look?

salimshah

Condition of the Tbelt is only one item that needs to be looked over. Idlers, tensioner, water-pump need examination. My idler started squeeling at 85k miles. @200k I am changing the water pump.

Salim

thaeleelyr

Salim,

Using that Lisle seal puller, that rear cam wasn't too bad. It was a pain in the rear, mind you, but considering how hard & old it was, I'm glad I did it (I've *almost* got 200k). The tricky part was figuring out how to get the seal back in. If you have a gear puller, you can rig it up like I did to install them. I'm thinking you could even use PVC pipe if you don't have a socket big enough.

The crankshaft seal (if that is what you mean by the "main") was easy-peasy by comparison. It was still tough to get out, but at least there is maneuvering room. Honestly, I've pulled some seals using other methods, but that Lisle puller is absolutely the best way I've found and there really isn't any risk of scoring something. It's steep for a one-trick pony that I won't use very often, but I'm still happy I have it.

I'm guessing you haven't pulled the crank gear/pulley thing before? If not, there is a little bracket on the bottom right that needs to be removed before you pull it. Also, the instructions I had were adamant not to scratch the back part of the gear (they called it the sensor). It's metal, so I used an old cloth to lay it on. The gear post is keyed. My neighbor mentioned that the "keys" can fall off. I don't know how that would happen and mine didn't budge, but it's something to keep in mind.

The hardest part (aside from the stress and worry) was getting that crankshaft pulley torqued to 159 ft. lbs.

If it's any encouragement, this is the first time I've ever done a timing belt on anything and I did both cam seals & crankshaft seal. I took him for a long ride today and nothing blew up. If an idiot like me can do it, so can you.

thaeleelyr

Kalali:

The belt looked fine to my eyes (I am very much 100% not an expert at anything automotive). I was over 25,000 short of my next TB change, but the water pump was leaking. I considered leaving it in, but I know that water on a TB is bad news and I didn't want to have to do this for another 90,000 miles. Plus, the water pump looked way older than it should have and I suspect my previous mechanic didn't actually perform the maintenance he was paid to do. He went out of business suddenly some months ago. I thought it prudent to just change everything out. It's such a pain getting in there. The pulleys I removed seemed perfectly fine, but I feel better changing them any way.

Speaking of which, does anyone know exactly what water on a TB does to the belt? I know it will shorten it's life, but why? And how much water needs to be on the belt for it to be considered damage? How much shorter will the life of the belt be if it is wet?

salimshah

Breaking the crank bolt was an adventure. Overcame that ...

Had to run around town and payed the piper for stud extractor.

Seals came out with a bit of effort. Paint can opener came in handy. The cam on bank one was harder as there was little room.

My seals were not leaking, but they are crisp (no flex).

Putting things back.

Last transverse engine T belt I did was on Accord and I had promised that I would not do a T-Belt change on a Transverse mounted engine.

Salim

salimshah

Need to go back in as there is oil leak.

Moral : Think twice before you go changing oil seals.

Salim