Rear caliper replacement
04-25-14, 08:34 PM
#1
Driver
Thread Starter
Rear caliper replacement
I am the second owner of a 2003 RX300 as of last September (after my 1st gen ES300 got wrecked by an inattentive driver) and other than a few niggling issues that the first owner didn't tell me about when I bought it (front passenger door lock & leak on driver side rear hatch), I had no major issues that I felt couldn't wait until better weather.
We had some really crappy weather here in the northeast and my RX300 was sitting on the curb. I had lots of fun driving around in the snow. However, a few weeks ago, I started smelling brake pad by the driver side rear tire. Probably a casualty of all the salt they were throwing down. I stopped driving and waited for nicer weather.
When the weather hit the 50s, I popped the tire off and tried to get the caliper off to inspect the pads. It was really hard to get off and I had to use a deadblow hammer to knock it loose. Pads had lots of meat on them, rotors were unscored and I was able to remove both sliding pins. The pins had residue I would associate with Permatex anti-seize compound. I slathered more on and put them back in place. Dust boots had no visible tears in them and the pins were rust free.
The piston was very difficult to put back in with a compression tool, so I slightly loosened the bleed valve and it went back in smoothly. Put everything back together (including tightening the bleed valve) and stomped on the brake few times with the engine on. Drove for a few miles and no more brake pad smell.
I thought I was done and drove about another 500 miles. After a road trip of about 100 miles, I stared smelling brake pad again. I inspected the rotor and it has heavy channels in it and I could feel the heat radiating from the wheel. That was a week ago. I have ordered a reman semi-loaded caliper, pads and a new rotor. All of which I confirmed are for my AWD RX300.
I know how to change pads and rotors. I've never had to replace a caliper before. Aside from that, I've also never bled brake lines before. I picked up a fuel line hose clamp, a one person bleed kit and some DOT 3 brake fluid and I've been reading a lot of things here about changing brakes and such. It seems like it's a simple thing to do. Anything I should be aware of when I do this? Parts don't arrive until next week, so I have some time to ask for suggestions and tips.
Update 5/21/14:
I've now changed both driver's side calipers. I've posted pictures along with instructions to swapping out the front caliper. It starts at post # 59. The rear caliper will be similar.
We had some really crappy weather here in the northeast and my RX300 was sitting on the curb. I had lots of fun driving around in the snow. However, a few weeks ago, I started smelling brake pad by the driver side rear tire. Probably a casualty of all the salt they were throwing down. I stopped driving and waited for nicer weather.
When the weather hit the 50s, I popped the tire off and tried to get the caliper off to inspect the pads. It was really hard to get off and I had to use a deadblow hammer to knock it loose. Pads had lots of meat on them, rotors were unscored and I was able to remove both sliding pins. The pins had residue I would associate with Permatex anti-seize compound. I slathered more on and put them back in place. Dust boots had no visible tears in them and the pins were rust free.
The piston was very difficult to put back in with a compression tool, so I slightly loosened the bleed valve and it went back in smoothly. Put everything back together (including tightening the bleed valve) and stomped on the brake few times with the engine on. Drove for a few miles and no more brake pad smell.
I thought I was done and drove about another 500 miles. After a road trip of about 100 miles, I stared smelling brake pad again. I inspected the rotor and it has heavy channels in it and I could feel the heat radiating from the wheel. That was a week ago. I have ordered a reman semi-loaded caliper, pads and a new rotor. All of which I confirmed are for my AWD RX300.
I know how to change pads and rotors. I've never had to replace a caliper before. Aside from that, I've also never bled brake lines before. I picked up a fuel line hose clamp, a one person bleed kit and some DOT 3 brake fluid and I've been reading a lot of things here about changing brakes and such. It seems like it's a simple thing to do. Anything I should be aware of when I do this? Parts don't arrive until next week, so I have some time to ask for suggestions and tips.
Update 5/21/14:
I've now changed both driver's side calipers. I've posted pictures along with instructions to swapping out the front caliper. It starts at post # 59. The rear caliper will be similar.
Last edited by timmui; 05-21-14 at 06:07 PM.
04-25-14, 08:58 PM
#2
Moderator
If you had posted this earlier, some one would have told you that you have a problem.
When you apply brakes the pads squeeze the rotor with hydraulic force. When you lift off your foot, guess what happens?
Your rotor as it spins has a slight play side to side and this play pushes the pads back away from the rotor surface. The fluid should have free passage to get back in the master reservoir. With C clamp if you cant push the pads/slave_cylinder back, the run-out will not be able to push it back and the brake will remain applied.
Since you could push the piston back with the bleed screw, it tells me your line is blocked. So you should bleed your brakes. There are plenty of youtube videos on bleeding the brakes. Get a fresh bottle of brake fluid and suck out the fluid form the master cylinder and leave 1/4 to 1/8 in there. Then top it with fresh fluid and bleed out from passenger rear. Keep bleeding and keep filling till the new fluid comes out. Then do the driver-rear, pass-front and last at the driver-front.
I would suggest that you get help and do the bleeding with buddy in the driver seat and the other person underneath the RX.
Salim
04-26-14, 02:09 PM
#3
I am the second owner of a 2003 RX300 as of last September (after my 1st gen ES300 got wrecked by an inattentive driver) and other than a few niggling issues that the first owner didn't tell me about when I bought it (front passenger door lock & leak on driver side rear hatch), I had no major issues that I felt couldn't wait until better weather.
We had some really crappy weather here in the northeast and my RX300 was sitting on the curb. I had lots of fun driving around in the snow. However, a few weeks ago, I started smelling brake pad by the driver side rear tire. Probably a casualty of all the salt they were throwing down. I stopped driving and waited for nicer weather.
When the weather hit the 50s, I popped the tire off and tried to get the caliper off to inspect the pads. It was really hard to get off and I had to use a deadblow hammer to knock it loose. Pads had lots of meat on them, rotors were unscored and I was able to remove both sliding pins. The pins had residue I would associate with Permatex anti-seize compound. I slathered more on and put them back in place. Dust boots had no visible tears in them and the pins were rust free.
The piston was very difficult to put back in with a compression tool, so I slightly loosened the bleed valve and it went back in smoothly. Put everything back together (including tightening the bleed valve) and stomped on the brake few times with the engine on. Drove for a few miles and no more brake pad smell.
I thought I was done and drove about another 500 miles. After a road trip of about 100 miles, I stared smelling brake pad again. I inspected the rotor and it has heavy channels in it and I could feel the heat radiating from the wheel. That was a week ago. I have ordered a reman semi-loaded caliper, pads and a new rotor. All of which I confirmed are for my AWD RX300.
I know how to change pads and rotors. I've never had to replace a caliper before. Aside from that, I've also never bled brake lines before. I picked up a fuel line hose clamp, a one person bleed kit and some DOT 3 brake fluid and I've been reading a lot of things here about changing brakes and such. It seems like it's a simple thing to do. Anything I should be aware of when I do this? Parts don't arrive until next week, so I have some time to ask for suggestions and tips.
We had some really crappy weather here in the northeast and my RX300 was sitting on the curb. I had lots of fun driving around in the snow. However, a few weeks ago, I started smelling brake pad by the driver side rear tire. Probably a casualty of all the salt they were throwing down. I stopped driving and waited for nicer weather.
When the weather hit the 50s, I popped the tire off and tried to get the caliper off to inspect the pads. It was really hard to get off and I had to use a deadblow hammer to knock it loose. Pads had lots of meat on them, rotors were unscored and I was able to remove both sliding pins. The pins had residue I would associate with Permatex anti-seize compound. I slathered more on and put them back in place. Dust boots had no visible tears in them and the pins were rust free.
The piston was very difficult to put back in with a compression tool, so I slightly loosened the bleed valve and it went back in smoothly. Put everything back together (including tightening the bleed valve) and stomped on the brake few times with the engine on. Drove for a few miles and no more brake pad smell.
I thought I was done and drove about another 500 miles. After a road trip of about 100 miles, I stared smelling brake pad again. I inspected the rotor and it has heavy channels in it and I could feel the heat radiating from the wheel. That was a week ago. I have ordered a reman semi-loaded caliper, pads and a new rotor. All of which I confirmed are for my AWD RX300.
I know how to change pads and rotors. I've never had to replace a caliper before. Aside from that, I've also never bled brake lines before. I picked up a fuel line hose clamp, a one person bleed kit and some DOT 3 brake fluid and I've been reading a lot of things here about changing brakes and such. It seems like it's a simple thing to do. Anything I should be aware of when I do this? Parts don't arrive until next week, so I have some time to ask for suggestions and tips.
04-26-14, 06:16 PM
#4
Driver
Thread Starter
Welcome to CL.
Since you could push the piston back with the bleed screw, it tells me your line is blocked. So you should bleed your brakes. There are plenty of youtube videos on bleeding the brakes. Get a fresh bottle of brake fluid and suck out the fluid form the master cylinder and leave 1/4 to 1/8 in there. Then top it with fresh fluid and bleed out from passenger rear. Keep bleeding and keep filling till the new fluid comes out. Then do the driver-rear, pass-front and last at the driver-front.
I would suggest that you get help and do the bleeding with buddy in the driver seat and the other person underneath the RX.
Salim
Since you could push the piston back with the bleed screw, it tells me your line is blocked. So you should bleed your brakes. There are plenty of youtube videos on bleeding the brakes. Get a fresh bottle of brake fluid and suck out the fluid form the master cylinder and leave 1/4 to 1/8 in there. Then top it with fresh fluid and bleed out from passenger rear. Keep bleeding and keep filling till the new fluid comes out. Then do the driver-rear, pass-front and last at the driver-front.
I would suggest that you get help and do the bleeding with buddy in the driver seat and the other person underneath the RX.
Salim
I was looking at speedibleed after reading this post, for future brake bleeds. I contacted their sales, and they informed me that they will soon be releasing a new fit in cap for the reservoir. I've asked them to send me a prototype to "test" fro them.
04-26-14, 07:38 PM
#5
Moderator
The fluid has become thick and lost its mobility. I am sure the pressure from the pedal will push it out.
When thing become this bad, you may have to crack open a segment instead of bleeding it out of the bleeder valve. You will find out soon enough.
If you get air in the system, the pedal goes soft and you cant apply brakes.
Salim
When thing become this bad, you may have to crack open a segment instead of bleeding it out of the bleeder valve. You will find out soon enough.
If you get air in the system, the pedal goes soft and you cant apply brakes.
Salim
04-27-14, 03:00 AM
#6
I think your rear caliper piston seized and that's why it smell. Can you lift up the both rear wheels with jack and jack stands see if you move the wheel by hand does it free or not? I think power bleeding is the best but you could do manual bleeding with help of another person seat in the car. Following is the best bleeder by price which I got by searching the net and our forum: "Motive Products 101 Brake System Power Bleeder" which you could get from the amazon. I bought one set. Here is the link-http://www.amazon.com/Motive-Products-101-System-Bleeder/dp/B00CJ5DWKO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1398591908&sr=8-1&keywords=Motive+Products+101+Brake+System+Power+Bleeder. I will let you know later about the caliper hose washer which you could google it or I will give you the link. Let me know what is the result of your rear wheel specialy which one smell if it move free? If you need to replace the rear caliper I will guide you step by step. It is not that hard.
04-27-14, 06:46 AM
#7
Pole Position
Also don't forget the rubber brake lines. They can expand inside from age and cause the caliper to not release. Happened on a friends car, and he had replaced the caliper but it was still not releasing.
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04-27-14, 07:37 AM
#8
Lead Lap
Go through the list:
If you're dealing with a sliding caliper make sure it can slide. You mentioned sliding pins coated with an adhesive, suppose you mean the bolts, if the sliding pins are thus coated you will surely have a sluggish caliper. We use to coat sliding pins with special non- mineral grease to prevent seizure caused by water on off-road vehicles.
Test your piston for ability to move. Good idea to use silicone grease when assembling.
Test the line as you've already been advised. Especially metal lines for a kink or dent, which can cause fluid to go through when you hit the pedal, but can't return because the return force is less than from a number eleven boot on the pedal.
Of course there's the less obvious reasons. Do you have OEM pads in there? Non OEM pads can be buckled or have cracked backplate,or are too heat sensitive, which can cause it to take up space which is not available when the rotor is also hot etc etc.
I can't speak for the dynamics of ABS, but a lot of individual wheel brake application is nowadays left to the
electronics in ABS in an emergency. So that will also be on my list of scoundrels which can cause a single wheel to act strangely.
If you're dealing with a sliding caliper make sure it can slide. You mentioned sliding pins coated with an adhesive, suppose you mean the bolts, if the sliding pins are thus coated you will surely have a sluggish caliper. We use to coat sliding pins with special non- mineral grease to prevent seizure caused by water on off-road vehicles.
Test your piston for ability to move. Good idea to use silicone grease when assembling.
Test the line as you've already been advised. Especially metal lines for a kink or dent, which can cause fluid to go through when you hit the pedal, but can't return because the return force is less than from a number eleven boot on the pedal.
Of course there's the less obvious reasons. Do you have OEM pads in there? Non OEM pads can be buckled or have cracked backplate,or are too heat sensitive, which can cause it to take up space which is not available when the rotor is also hot etc etc.
I can't speak for the dynamics of ABS, but a lot of individual wheel brake application is nowadays left to the
electronics in ABS in an emergency. So that will also be on my list of scoundrels which can cause a single wheel to act strangely.
Last edited by nipponbird; 04-27-14 at 07:41 AM.
04-27-14, 03:14 PM
#10
Thanks Salim, I'll try bleeding the lines first. Might do a full fluid replacement as suggest after I looked at the reservoir and saw that the fluid is a bit murky looking. When you say the line is blocked, are you saying it might be an air bubble or debris?
gazi, do you know what the part numbers to those washers are? I haven't found anything as of yet that has them listed.
I was looking at speedibleed after reading this post, for future brake bleeds. I contacted their sales, and they informed me that they will soon be releasing a new fit in cap for the reservoir. I've asked them to send me a prototype to "test" fro them.
gazi, do you know what the part numbers to those washers are? I haven't found anything as of yet that has them listed.
I was looking at speedibleed after reading this post, for future brake bleeds. I contacted their sales, and they informed me that they will soon be releasing a new fit in cap for the reservoir. I've asked them to send me a prototype to "test" fro them.
04-27-14, 05:29 PM
#11
How to replace Front and Rear caliper.
For front /Rear calipers:
Tools needed = Sockets/Wrench: 21mm long for wheel nuts, 14mm front caliper pins, 12mm for rear pins, 14mm also caliper hose banjo bolts, front & rear caliper brackets, breaker bar for caliper bracket bolts,c-clamp, Vise grip with fuel hose for press the brake caliper hose from dipping the brake fluid out, plastic bottle with hose for catch the brake fluid from the bleeder, brake fluid .
Before you remove the caliper loosen the banjo bolt 14 mm behind the caliper piston which connected by caliper brake hose. Now pressed the brake hose with nose vise grip which tipped cover with fuel hose as seen in the picture. I order this hoses for my RX: http://www.frsport.com/Goodridge-215...0_p_11977.html
Remove the tire and caliper followed by this link: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx-...-pads-diy.html
Now remove the front caliper bracket which hold by two 14 mm bolts each side. You have to use breaker bar to loose the bolt little bit then remove. Now you could remove the front rotors if you need to replace.
For the rear brackets same like front but removing the rear rotors are different. For replacing the rear rotors follow this link: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx-...ml#post5450688
Make sure you adjust the emergency brake after installed new one.
Now finally you have to bleed all four calipers by following way: Rear Right, Rear Left, Front Right and Front left. Follow this link: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx-...ement-diy.html You could do manually by two persons or power bleeding. I got following tools for power bleeding one person job. Here is the link: http://motiveproducts.3dcartstores.c...er-_p_132.html
Here is a video for rear caliper removal :
Or you could check this one also:
Good luck.
For front /Rear calipers:
Tools needed = Sockets/Wrench: 21mm long for wheel nuts, 14mm front caliper pins, 12mm for rear pins, 14mm also caliper hose banjo bolts, front & rear caliper brackets, breaker bar for caliper bracket bolts,c-clamp, Vise grip with fuel hose for press the brake caliper hose from dipping the brake fluid out, plastic bottle with hose for catch the brake fluid from the bleeder, brake fluid .
Before you remove the caliper loosen the banjo bolt 14 mm behind the caliper piston which connected by caliper brake hose. Now pressed the brake hose with nose vise grip which tipped cover with fuel hose as seen in the picture. I order this hoses for my RX: http://www.frsport.com/Goodridge-215...0_p_11977.html
Remove the tire and caliper followed by this link: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx-...-pads-diy.html
Now remove the front caliper bracket which hold by two 14 mm bolts each side. You have to use breaker bar to loose the bolt little bit then remove. Now you could remove the front rotors if you need to replace.
For the rear brackets same like front but removing the rear rotors are different. For replacing the rear rotors follow this link: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx-...ml#post5450688
Make sure you adjust the emergency brake after installed new one.
Now finally you have to bleed all four calipers by following way: Rear Right, Rear Left, Front Right and Front left. Follow this link: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx-...ement-diy.html You could do manually by two persons or power bleeding. I got following tools for power bleeding one person job. Here is the link: http://motiveproducts.3dcartstores.c...er-_p_132.html
Here is a video for rear caliper removal :
04-27-14, 10:08 PM
#12
Moderator
Evidence as posted, points to blockage in pipe/hose.
Thomas is very likely to be correct in thinking the flex hose is the culprit. [specially if some used force to clamp it down in the past ... Sorry Eric you know a lot more ..] If flush does not clear it out, then examine the hose for abnormality. Unfortunately the problem is internal, but it usually shows up in lack of smoothness and flexibility. If you do end up replacing the hose, look into stainless steel flex hose.
Salim
Thomas is very likely to be correct in thinking the flex hose is the culprit. [specially if some used force to clamp it down in the past ... Sorry Eric you know a lot more ..] If flush does not clear it out, then examine the hose for abnormality. Unfortunately the problem is internal, but it usually shows up in lack of smoothness and flexibility. If you do end up replacing the hose, look into stainless steel flex hose.
Salim
Last edited by salimshah; 04-27-14 at 11:09 PM.
04-28-14, 09:00 AM
#13
Driver
Thread Starter
Ok, thanks everyone for all the tips. Judging from everyone's posts, the likely culprit assuming the caliper is not the issue is between that caliper and the master cylinder. I think that means I have to take that banjo bolt off if bleeding doesn't work. So I think I'll wait until the replacement caliper gets here to see if the washers are included or not.
It appears I can't get to test speedibleed's new adapter as it hasn't been manufactured yet. I prefer this system over the motive product because I don't need to be standing over the bottle to add pressure. With the speedibleed system, I think I can modify it to accept a longer input hose, which will allow me to stand by the rear axle and cut off pressure when I see new brake fluid.
It appears I can't get to test speedibleed's new adapter as it hasn't been manufactured yet. I prefer this system over the motive product because I don't need to be standing over the bottle to add pressure. With the speedibleed system, I think I can modify it to accept a longer input hose, which will allow me to stand by the rear axle and cut off pressure when I see new brake fluid.
04-28-14, 02:07 PM
#14
Ok, thanks everyone for all the tips. Judging from everyone's posts, the likely culprit assuming the caliper is not the issue is between that caliper and the master cylinder. I think that means I have to take that banjo bolt off if bleeding doesn't work. So I think I'll wait until the replacement caliper gets here to see if the washers are included or not.
It appears I can't get to test speedibleed's new adapter as it hasn't been manufactured yet. I prefer this system over the motive product because I don't need to be standing over the bottle to add pressure. With the speedibleed system, I think I can modify it to accept a longer input hose, which will allow me to stand by the rear axle and cut off pressure when I see new brake fluid.
It appears I can't get to test speedibleed's new adapter as it hasn't been manufactured yet. I prefer this system over the motive product because I don't need to be standing over the bottle to add pressure. With the speedibleed system, I think I can modify it to accept a longer input hose, which will allow me to stand by the rear axle and cut off pressure when I see new brake fluid.
04-28-14, 04:59 PM
#15
Moderator
Please do not post personal information in an open forum.
Feel free to communicate using PM.
Salim
Feel free to communicate using PM.
Salim
Last edited by salimshah; 04-28-14 at 06:46 PM.