RX rotor question

[Goncookoo]

Sorry if posting here is not correct. Im not sure where it goes and have cross posted it in the RX Suspension and Handling section.

*********
So I brought my 99 Rx in for my 40k service (it actually just hit 38k, but I guess I hit the time alotted for the 40k service requirement).

I had them check my brakes to see if I needed new brakes. Im sure I do because at the last service they told me I should need it by years end.

So I get a call from them just now saying I need new rotors because mine are too rusted and warped to resurface! Its gonna cost me ~600 per axel to do brakes and rotors.

So my question is:

Should I take their word that my rotors need replacing?

Ive gone through 1 car before this and my family has gone through many more! None of our cars have ever needed to turn a rotor at 38K miles!

I have not noticed any squeeks, thumps, vibrations or anything from my brakes. Im not sure my qualitative assesment of my brakes justifies me in saying the Lexus dealership is trying to do unnecessary reparis, but I am a little suspicious!

Currently, I told them to hold on the brakes and rotors and just do the service check.

Any suggestions comments? Should I seek another opinion or take their word that my rotors are too warped and need replacing?

Thanks guys,
Paul

[LexRX]

I put your thread in here and deleted the "lexus service reliability" thread.

I can understand your reluctance to believe the Lexus reps in their diagnosis. If you have the time and care to spend the marginal extra cash, get a second opinion.

[salimshah]

Goncookoo:

Pulsation during braking is indicative of warped rotors (can also produce noise). Warp is generally attributed to improper lug nut torque or extreme thermal cycles of the rotor. Milage has nothing to do with warped rotors. Bad pads [not repalced at the right time] cause pitting (+ corrosion) or non-smooth rotors. Run your finger across the rotor surface. Front can be checked between the holes of the rim. If you fell there is pitting, (like grooves on a vinyl record), then resurfacing is an option only if the grooves are shallow. Dont forget that there is back surface too.

I never favor resurfacing (due to warping or pitting) as it hastens warping afterwards. I would replace the rotor. [pay the $ price, but save by DIY]

Form your post it seems, you are convinced that there is no warping and if the rotors pass the pitting test here is what I would do. Start by changing the pads only. The procedure is well within a DIY capability. You need not get into the hydraulics and requires 10 min or less per wheel (not including jacking up and removing the wheel).
Tools required ... two spanners, brake cleaner, wire/string, and a turkey baster (can not be used for cooking afterwards)

Try it out for a day or two and if you are happy, no need to worry any more. If there is pulsation, execssive noise, you may take the next step of changing the rotors. New pads have to be broken in ... no sharp braking etc. [Note: Any pitting on the rotors will bite into the pads, so check the rotors first]

Rotors (I assume they are similar to GS) practically fall off when replacing pads. One has to put one lug nut on to prevent it from falling off. No extra tools or skill is required.

You will be able to do this for roughly 1/2 to 2/3 the price you have been quoted, if you get parts from one of the CL sponsors.

Most of the brake shops including dealer, are not necessarily trying to fleece the customer. For them it is not worth doing things in stages as they do not want unhappy customers.... it is the cost of complete satisfaction passed back to the customer.

Salim

[LexRX]

Forget the second opinion, money saved, just listen to salimshah
I'd like to learn how to change my own pads. Once I learn how, seems like a simple, and cost effective, DIY.

[Goncookoo]

Thanks for the suggestions guys!

Paul

[Francis]

Can You take a wheel off? If you can, check the pad and rotor by yourself first. Just to make sure no rid of from dealer. I've just checked mine. It still have 60% left on pad. Good luck.

Francis 99' RX 50kmile

[salimshah]

Originally posted by LexRX
Forget the second opinion, money saved, just listen to salimshah
I'd like to learn how to change my own pads. Once I learn how, seems like a simple, and cost effective, DIY.

How about starting a DIY thread .. like suspension & engine.

Front brake pad replacement DIY:
Disclaimer: Working on a jacked-up vehicle is dangerous and if proper care is not exercised it can lead to serious injury and even death.

Disclaimer: If brakes or any of its components are not installed properly, you will loose proper control of the vehicle resulting in serious accident.

1. Remove front wheel after ensuring the RX is properly supported. install one of the lug nuts on to the lug bolt, to ensure the rotor does not fall off once the caliper is moved out.
2. With a turkey baster (or equivalent) suck out brake fluid from the master cylender reservoir. (keep the level just below 1/2) Do NOT empty it as you will introduce air in the system. Brake fluid can ruin paint finish and should never be re-used and should be disposed properly.
3. Caliper is held in place by two long sliding pins ... pins/bolts that have rubber boot on them roughly 1/2" away from the head of the pin (inner side of the wheel). Identify the top and the bottom pin.
4. You will need an open end spanner/wrench to hold the bottom pin (hexagon head) close to the rubber boot. Use preferrably box wrench on the head of the bottom pin to loosen it. [Position the wrenches so that you can squeeze them with one hand ... large hands help].
5. Remove the bottom pin and swing the caliper up. Note the top pin act as the pivot.
6. Use a string or a wire to hang the caliper assembly from the suspension so that the caliper is out of the way.
[Note: Do not remove the hydraulic line or the top pin].
7. Pull the pads out (away from the rotor), while taking note of the various clips.
8. Use the spray to clean the brake assebly.
9. Remove the shims/plates that prevent squeeling from the back of the old pads.
10. Use the High Temp brake grease to coat the shims (all surfaces ... front and back). Ensure that grease does not get on the pads braking surface and the rotor. Instal the shims/plates on the new pads.
12. Use the back of the screw driver, or the wood handle of a hammer to push back the piston in the caliper. The brake fuild will travel back up into the master cylender reservoir (you created room for it in step 2). If you have the right size C clamp, you can use that instead. Keep an eye on the brake fuild level and if gets too high, pump some out with the turkey baster.
13. Pop in the new pads and confirm all clips are there.
14. Un-hook the cliper and swing it in place. If the piston hits the pad, the piston needs to be pushed in some more. [exercise care as the pad edge can damage the rubber boot around the piston]
15.Put the sliding pin back. Use the open end wrench to hold the pin and tighten the head. Reverse step 4.
16. Reverse step 1.
17. Start the RX and pump the brake several times to push the piston out to its normal position. Keep an eye on the brake reservoir as it will drop. Ensure it remains at least 1/2 full or slightly more to prevent introducing air in the system. KEEP TRANSMISSION IN PARK TILL YOU FEEL THE BRAKE PEDAL IS NORMAL.


General notes:
If there is wear on components, or the boots are ripped then they should be replaced.
Grease packet has enough grease for both front wheels.
Only ONE pin is loosend and removed in the whole process.

Salim

[tomv]

salimshah,
great post.

I've changed brakes on my Jeep before so when it came time to change the brakes on the RX I didn't even think twice about whether I'd do it myself or let a garage do it.

My fronts were only about 50% worn and my backs were about 75% worn. I had all the pads so I changed them anyways.

Your post is dead on and should allow anyone who can take off a tire to change their own brakes.

If a moderator is reading this, how about the suggestion of a DIY section under each car.

RX300
Suspension amd Handling Section
Engine and Transmission Section
DIY <-----------

It may overlap but it sure would make it easy to find posts.

[delirium]

great info! a DIY section would be great!

[LexRX]

delirium, welcome to ClubLexus. Good to see you've found some helpful info. ClubLexus actually has a wonderful do-it-yourself section for payed members

[StrmRdr23]

have you guys seen the auction on ebay for irotors.com...i guess they make a slotted/xdrilled rotor for the rx300 for $289.99...i checked out there website...looks cool...you can get zinc plating on it too...what ya'll think??

[AgSport]

I just installed a set on my '02 SilverSport this week. Also painted the calipers gloss black. The pre-sale service was very good but delivery took almost 3 weeks. Installation is straight forward if you're a good DIY'er and have done disc brakes before; be sure you have the right tools.

The break-in procedure is ESSENTIAL (10x 30MPH starts and slow stops) to properly seat the pads and rotors and thermally "condition" them.

I spent most of a day doing the project. Painting the calipers probably took the longest (3 coats of paint + drying time...about 30+ minutes each.

-ken

[gp1200x]

How are the rotors?? Are they slotted? Any reason to think that these won't warp too under heavy braking? I either need to turn my old ones or buy new ones.

[AgSport]

After 500+ miles, I'm very pleased with the rotors and how they perform. Hard braking from fast/moderate speeds is greatly improved (shorter distance stops, better grip and no fading). But not much difference at normal street driving and slow speed braking; which is what I expected. Braking is smooth...NO chattering or pulsing. The break-in was the key factor in making them work and getting everything to seat properly. The project was definitely worth the time and effort.

Rotors are cross drilled and slotted + zinc plated to prevent rusting. Two photos of the rotors are posted on the CL gallery at:

http://www.clublexus.com/gallery/sho...1&ppuser=11895

My guess is any rotor will eventually start to warp over time if you do lots of hard braking and as the rotors begin to get grooves or hot spots. I try not to do any hard braking even though I drive fast (90+ MPH on open highway...the RX engine can easily handle that). I expect to get good service out of these iRotors ones and they look pretty cool with my 18" wheels.

Take your front rotors into a good brake shop to see if they can turn them; they should be able to tell you if there's a hot spot on them, at which time they'll tell you to replace them. iRotors sell stock blank rotors, too, for about $100. less (?) than the cross drilled/slotted ones ($300.).