Wife and I buying a 1st gen RX!
11-05-12, 08:33 PM
#1
Wife and I buying a 1st gen RX!
Not new to CL or Lexus but new to the RX lineup. I have a few questions for you guys. So, we are looking at a 2002 RX300 awd black/black. It has about 84k miles on it. Interior is in great condition but the exterior needs some help. It is a non-smoker, 1 owner and has a clean carfax with all service records and no accidents. So, the dealer is throwing in 4 brand new tires, repairing a small rip in the drivers door and adding new brakes. He is also having all exterior dents pulled. Paint is 8.5/10 but has literally 17 little dentsm like from a hail storm...he says he can get them all out. Lastly, he is going to re-spray the hood and blend into the fenders as there were signs of heavy stains from old sap/bird poop. All this for the negotiated price of $10k. Is this a good deal? The truck drives great and my wife loves it! btw it has HIDs and all amenities (except nav). Anything we should look out for? this truck will prob be driven less than 8k per year so i'm thinking timing belt/water pump change in 2 years at $1000. What do you guys think? Questions? Comments? Advice? Thanks all!!!
11-06-12, 11:06 AM
#2
Lexus Test Driver
The timing belt should still be changed ASAP. It is to be changed every 7 years or 90k miles, whichever comes first.
Check to make sure the transmission was serviced regularly. The early RX's had transmission problems that could be avoided with frequent ATF drain and fills (i.e. 15k miles).
The price seems a bit high to me, especially considering it doesn't have NAV but since he's installing new tires and fixing some other things it may be worth the premium. It will be tough to find another RX with "low" miles such as this one.
Check to make sure the transmission was serviced regularly. The early RX's had transmission problems that could be avoided with frequent ATF drain and fills (i.e. 15k miles).
The price seems a bit high to me, especially considering it doesn't have NAV but since he's installing new tires and fixing some other things it may be worth the premium. It will be tough to find another RX with "low" miles such as this one.
11-07-12, 12:38 PM
#3
I agree with Hypervish about the TRANSMISSION SERVICE (different from dealer "service packages" or transmission "flush").
You can bet a black/black RX300 with only 84k has seen it's share of idling with the A/C cranked cooling that black leather with the sun beating on the black exterior. That's pretty tough on the trans, and beats the fluid even worse.
The mfr and dealers did not recommend transmission service (wait until failure) which seems common in the industry, but auto enthusiasts who keep their cars a long time know that's shortsighted. Unfortunately, owners who trade in or lease don't share that paradigm.
If no history, and/or the fluid is questionable, the price should be adjusted so you are comfortable expecting to replace/rebuild the transmission sometime in the near future, because the car is otherwise worthy. However, trans failures are not across the board, many go for hundreds of thousands of miles on high mileage cars.
I hope you enjoy your new car.
You can bet a black/black RX300 with only 84k has seen it's share of idling with the A/C cranked cooling that black leather with the sun beating on the black exterior. That's pretty tough on the trans, and beats the fluid even worse.
The mfr and dealers did not recommend transmission service (wait until failure) which seems common in the industry, but auto enthusiasts who keep their cars a long time know that's shortsighted. Unfortunately, owners who trade in or lease don't share that paradigm.
If no history, and/or the fluid is questionable, the price should be adjusted so you are comfortable expecting to replace/rebuild the transmission sometime in the near future, because the car is otherwise worthy. However, trans failures are not across the board, many go for hundreds of thousands of miles on high mileage cars.
I hope you enjoy your new car.
Last edited by LA4Mead; 11-07-12 at 12:45 PM.
11-07-12, 05:33 PM
#5
Are you buying the car from a Lexus dealer? If not, I'd be very careful of any work an independent used car dealership might do (cheap parts, cheap workmanship, etc). Don't let them put cheap parts on the car, and you should be able to get the hood buffed out without repainting it unles it's really, really, bad. I'd have the work done yourself an knock $2500 off the price.
11-07-12, 08:49 PM
#6
This used car dealer recently bought it from a local Lexus dealer, the original owner traded it in for a newer Lexus where this used car dealer bought it from the Lexus dealer for them to re-sell. This is also indicated from the car fax report. This used car dealer only deals with high end cars and has been around for a long time. Sadly, the RX is probably the lowest of the high end cars they have. They have pretty sick stuff! I use to detail on the side and I know when something cannot come out..the hood is shot, it needs to be re-painted. They are throwing in a nice set of Goodyear tires, not a cheap brand. I don't think I am getting a sick deal at all, i'm just asking you all if I am getting a fair deal. When all is said and done, the truck should be very clean! Then, I'll put my own little detailing on it.
11-08-12, 04:21 PM
#7
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Do not get the Goodyear tires!
Go for the Michelin LTX/MX2. I had a set of both the Goodyear Integrity (stock) & replaced with the Michelin. The Michelins lasted over 90k miles & still had tread - got a flat in one, and started getting dry rot, so figured it was time for a new set.
There are plenty of threads here that rave about the Michelin LTX/MX tires
Go for the Michelin LTX/MX2. I had a set of both the Goodyear Integrity (stock) & replaced with the Michelin. The Michelins lasted over 90k miles & still had tread - got a flat in one, and started getting dry rot, so figured it was time for a new set.
There are plenty of threads here that rave about the Michelin LTX/MX tires
Last edited by Dadikins; 11-08-12 at 05:12 PM.
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11-08-12, 08:20 PM
#8
It's not my choice. The dealer that I am buying the car from is simply replacing the worn stock tires with new stock tires. I'm not going to be racing around in the RX and already mentioned that we'll put maybe 8k miles per year on her. If the tires last 3 to 4 years thats fine with me.
11-09-12, 01:28 PM
#9
Hey Rock, I know you from the GS boards and I thought I would share my experience with the RX. My wife and I have owned a 2002 RX300 for the last 8 years and have put nearly 100k miles on it. I purchased it from a Lexus dealer in 2004 with 38k and it now has just under 130k. It has been a fantastic and dependable vehicle. It still drives as good as the day we bought it and is one reason we still have it. Granted, I have replaced 2 sets of tires, 1 set of front and 1 set of rear brakes, done a couple of brake fluid flushes, full timing belt job, and replaced 2 batteries. But that is it, along with of course oil changes every 3-5k and most importantly transmission fluid changes. It is easily as good of a car as my GS400.
While I will agree with some previous comments about the transmissions issues, these were mostly associated with the 98-01 models. During that time Toyota/Lexus heard about the many issues owners were having early on in the vehicles ownership. Basically all Toyota had done with the earlier models was to take the Camry's 4spd tranny, slap it into the 1st Gen RX chassis and then ask it to move around an extra 800lbs on daily basis, without really any upgrade. Although some 98-01's had the added towing pkg which included and external oil cooler in the front pass wheelwell which helped, it still didn't prevent many of the low mileage transmission failures that occured. Apparently the primary reason these transmission were failing was due to the undersized internal oil pump. These earlier pumps, which were insufficient to build line pressure fast enough to properly seat the clutchs, caused excessive heat in localized areas within the trans and was burning the fluid consistently. As you probably know non-synthetic transmission fluid doesn't perform or protect once it has burned off it's shift modifiers, detergents and conditioners.
In late 2001 production runs, so 2002 models, these transmissions recieved upgraded clutches and more importantly a higher capacity internal oil pump. These basic changes prevented the later models from abusing the fluid and clutches to such degrees. I haven't seen on this board or heard from my local Lexus dealers of any 02+ models experiencing any failures like the earlier models. At any rate I stick to strict 20k drain and fills with Toyota T-IV fluid and have added a small external stacked plate cooler just for further insurance. My family of 4 takes this vehicle on all our road trips, as you know the GS is pathetic when it comes to luggage space, and it has returned average highway mileage of ~25mpg.
As far as the major timing belt service you mentioned, I recently purchased all the parts for a full timing belt job, including cam seals, crank seal, water pump, tensioner, tensioner pulley and idler pulley and accesorry belts from Pembroke Pines all for ~$400. I then took it to Toyota and got their Master mech to do the work for $400. This way mechanics who are very familiar with this 1MZFE engine are working on my vehicle and along the way I ended up saving around $600 as the Lexus service writer quoted me $1400 for the same job.
If you can get the work done that you mentioned you are getting a fair deal as long as it is a rust free car. I also agree with the other post about the Mich LTX-MS or Cross Terrains being a MUCH better tire or even a Bridgestone Dueller Alenza's. I have had both the Mich and B'stns on my vehicle and the Goodyears don't hold a candle to either of these in the comfort, quietness and handling dept's.
All in All I think you will be very happy with this "truck".
While I will agree with some previous comments about the transmissions issues, these were mostly associated with the 98-01 models. During that time Toyota/Lexus heard about the many issues owners were having early on in the vehicles ownership. Basically all Toyota had done with the earlier models was to take the Camry's 4spd tranny, slap it into the 1st Gen RX chassis and then ask it to move around an extra 800lbs on daily basis, without really any upgrade. Although some 98-01's had the added towing pkg which included and external oil cooler in the front pass wheelwell which helped, it still didn't prevent many of the low mileage transmission failures that occured. Apparently the primary reason these transmission were failing was due to the undersized internal oil pump. These earlier pumps, which were insufficient to build line pressure fast enough to properly seat the clutchs, caused excessive heat in localized areas within the trans and was burning the fluid consistently. As you probably know non-synthetic transmission fluid doesn't perform or protect once it has burned off it's shift modifiers, detergents and conditioners.
In late 2001 production runs, so 2002 models, these transmissions recieved upgraded clutches and more importantly a higher capacity internal oil pump. These basic changes prevented the later models from abusing the fluid and clutches to such degrees. I haven't seen on this board or heard from my local Lexus dealers of any 02+ models experiencing any failures like the earlier models. At any rate I stick to strict 20k drain and fills with Toyota T-IV fluid and have added a small external stacked plate cooler just for further insurance. My family of 4 takes this vehicle on all our road trips, as you know the GS is pathetic when it comes to luggage space, and it has returned average highway mileage of ~25mpg.
As far as the major timing belt service you mentioned, I recently purchased all the parts for a full timing belt job, including cam seals, crank seal, water pump, tensioner, tensioner pulley and idler pulley and accesorry belts from Pembroke Pines all for ~$400. I then took it to Toyota and got their Master mech to do the work for $400. This way mechanics who are very familiar with this 1MZFE engine are working on my vehicle and along the way I ended up saving around $600 as the Lexus service writer quoted me $1400 for the same job.
If you can get the work done that you mentioned you are getting a fair deal as long as it is a rust free car. I also agree with the other post about the Mich LTX-MS or Cross Terrains being a MUCH better tire or even a Bridgestone Dueller Alenza's. I have had both the Mich and B'stns on my vehicle and the Goodyears don't hold a candle to either of these in the comfort, quietness and handling dept's.
All in All I think you will be very happy with this "truck".
Last edited by ChampGS3; 11-09-12 at 02:37 PM.
11-09-12, 07:07 PM
#11
Bad news guys...my wife is so upset. I think this dealership sold it on us. I really dont want to settle on a higher mileage or different color but I need something in less than a month. 
i'm actually going to call them tomorrow and give them *****. I mean, we were in negotiations. The salesman could have at least given me a heads up that I gotta move quick that others are interested in it.
i'm actually going to call them tomorrow and give them *****. I mean, we were in negotiations. The salesman could have at least given me a heads up that I gotta move quick that others are interested in it.
11-10-12, 11:09 AM
#12
I wouldn't be afraid of an RX300 with a bit higher mileage. If it's any indication (although not a scientific one) it seems a lot of complaints posted on forums are regarding RX's with really low miles. It may be that really low mileage cars see harder use during those few miles (stop and go, idling, local errands, sitting a lot, etc. compared to daily use, freeway blasts, and long trips) or maybe because higher mileage RX's which did have a few problems were addressed during warrantee (mine mostly were).
Properly maintained, a little higher mileage might be OK, especially if you're going to retire it to 8,000/year.
What do you, others think?
PS. FWIW, Mine has only got 150,000, and other than the lazy right rear power door lock solenoid that I'd like to replace when I get around to it, feels new (with the more modern transmission).
Another PS about color: I know you were sold on the black/black, but unless you have really mild summers, that black roof and black leather is going to be hot/hot. I love the silver even tho it seems everyone has one, it stays so cool. But I'm sure you will find another color combo that you like. Sorry the other one didn't work out!
Properly maintained, a little higher mileage might be OK, especially if you're going to retire it to 8,000/year.
What do you, others think?
PS. FWIW, Mine has only got 150,000, and other than the lazy right rear power door lock solenoid that I'd like to replace when I get around to it, feels new (with the more modern transmission).
Another PS about color: I know you were sold on the black/black, but unless you have really mild summers, that black roof and black leather is going to be hot/hot. I love the silver even tho it seems everyone has one, it stays so cool. But I'm sure you will find another color combo that you like. Sorry the other one didn't work out!
Last edited by LA4Mead; 11-10-12 at 11:15 AM.
11-10-12, 11:52 AM
#13
Moderator
Bad news guys...my wife is so upset. I think this dealership sold it on us. I really dont want to settle on a higher mileage or different color but I need something in less than a month. i'm actually going to call them tomorrow and give them *****. I mean, we were in negotiations. The salesman could have at least given me a heads up that I gotta move quick that others are interested in it.
i'm actually going to call them tomorrow and give them *****. I mean, we were in negotiations. The salesman could have at least given me a heads up that I gotta move quick that others are interested in it.Patience grasshopper!
Salim
11-10-12, 05:52 PM
#14
Bad news guys...my wife is so upset. I think this dealership sold it on us. I really dont want to settle on a higher mileage or different color but I need something in less than a month. i'm actually going to call them tomorrow and give them *****. I mean, we were in negotiations. The salesman could have at least given me a heads up that I gotta move quick that others are interested in it.
i'm actually going to call them tomorrow and give them *****. I mean, we were in negotiations. The salesman could have at least given me a heads up that I gotta move quick that others are interested in it.
11-10-12, 08:58 PM
#15
You guys are right about patience and waiting and all. We found another one and this time we put a $200 refundable deposit down on it! This RX jusr so happens to be only 4 miles away too! Here's the particulars. It's,a 2001 AWD in millenium silver metalic with black leather. It has 99k miles on it and drives and shifts awesome. All the amenities including HIDs and a wood steering wheel. The interior is absolutely mint! No tears and barely any wear on the drivers seat bottom. The outside is nice also, not one dent and paint looks all original with still good luster. The only 2 things on the outside is the front bumper only looks a little oxidized, I think I can make it 10 Xs better with my compound wheel. One day we may just have to paint it. The other item is there are 3 three inch scratches in the rear passenger lower molding (gray). I can live with it for now but we'll probably just have a shop respray this lower molding at the same time as the front bumper one day. Everything else is nice! And i'm getting them to do the timing belt, water pump, new battery and oil and filter change! The tires look like they are only a year or so old. All this for $9850. What do you guys think? It was all detailed up and my wife was/is very excited.