Obvious oil sludge issue, claim denied

[frankjames]

I have an 01 RX300 I recently purchased. It died driving. 2200 miles on a brand new oil change, and not even reading oil on the dipstick. Took to lexus for inspection and the said there was no "gelling". They only pulled front valve cover. Towed to my house and pulled rear valve cover and found sludge on the oil return side of the head and valve cover. Removed oil pan and saw that the oil pump screen was also plugged with sludge. Took valve cover with sludge in it dealer along with pics of oil screen. Denied it was sludge said it was normal build up!!! W/T/F does that mean. So I called Lexus corporate and got jerked around and said my claim is still denied because the dealer said there is no "gelling in my engine" they won't even call it sludge LOL In the mean time I have yanked this engine out and found it to be starved for oil, blowing the rod on the piston furthest from the oil pump. Lexus is a bunch of BS and these RX300's are well below standard for a Luxury car with the standard placed on Lexus. Not to mention the trans are known to be a POS as well. This is unreal they have a class action lawsuit against them that tells of this particular problem affecting 3.3+million cars and they deny it's sludge even when its obvious, i am going to continue my pursuit in this regard. I am getting a third party arbitrator to make my case to. I can't believe I have to jump through so many hoops to get a ligitimate claim repaired. I've owned several Lexus's but this whole ordeal is turning me very sour on the brand. Just had to vent the BS that has been plagueing my life for over 2weeks now. Did I mention it only has 87k???

[artbuc]

Originally Posted by frankjames

I have an 01 RX300 I recently purchased. It died driving. 2200 miles on a brand new oil change, and not even reading oil on the dipstick. Took to lexus for inspection and the said there was no "gelling". They only pulled front valve cover. Towed to my house and pulled rear valve cover and found sludge on the oil return side of the head and valve cover. Removed oil pan and saw that the oil pump screen was also plugged with sludge. Took valve cover with sludge in it dealer along with pics of oil screen. Denied it was sludge said it was normal build up!!! W/T/F does that mean. So I called Lexus corporate and got jerked around and said my claim is still denied because the dealer said there is no "gelling in my engine" they won't even call it sludge LOL In the mean time I have yanked this engine out and found it to be starved for oil, blowing the rod on the piston furthest from the oil pump. Lexus is a bunch of BS and these RX300's are well below standard for a Luxury car with the standard placed on Lexus. Not to mention the trans are known to be a POS as well. This is unreal they have a class action lawsuit against them that tells of this particular problem affecting 3.3+million cars and they deny it's sludge even when its obvious, i am going to continue my pursuit in this regard. I am getting a third party arbitrator to make my case to. I can't believe I have to jump through so many hoops to get a ligitimate claim repaired. I've owned several Lexus's but this whole ordeal is turning me very sour on the brand. Just had to vent the BS that has been plagueing my life for over 2weeks now. Did I mention it only has 87k???

Wow. Sorry about your bad luck. Do you know anything about the oil change history and type of driving? IE, what kind of oil/oil filter and how often was it changed, city vs. highway driving, etc?

[lexus114]

Originally Posted by frankjames

I have an 01 RX300 I recently purchased. It died driving. 2200 miles on a brand new oil change, and not even reading oil on the dipstick. Took to lexus for inspection and the said there was no "gelling". They only pulled front valve cover. Towed to my house and pulled rear valve cover and found sludge on the oil return side of the head and valve cover. Removed oil pan and saw that the oil pump screen was also plugged with sludge. Took valve cover with sludge in it dealer along with pics of oil screen. Denied it was sludge said it was normal build up!!! W/T/F does that mean. So I called Lexus corporate and got jerked around and said my claim is still denied because the dealer said there is no "gelling in my engine" they won't even call it sludge LOL In the mean time I have yanked this engine out and found it to be starved for oil, blowing the rod on the piston furthest from the oil pump. Lexus is a bunch of BS and these RX300's are well below standard for a Luxury car with the standard placed on Lexus. Not to mention the trans are known to be a POS as well. This is unreal they have a class action lawsuit against them that tells of this particular problem affecting 3.3+million cars and they deny it's sludge even when its obvious, i am going to continue my pursuit in this regard. I am getting a third party arbitrator to make my case to. I can't believe I have to jump through so many hoops to get a ligitimate claim repaired. I've owned several Lexus's but this whole ordeal is turning me very sour on the brand. Just had to vent the BS that has been plagueing my life for over 2weeks now. Did I mention it only has 87k???

I agree,they think their above this annoying little problem. And the trans thing really fires me up,their should have been a recall on it. No if,ands or buts about it! I like my RX very much,and so far (knock on wood) its been very reliable. Only problems so far have been minor,dirty hub sensors etc.But when the trans goes,I`ll have to decide what route I`ll take,(meaning what millage its at and all of that) because its about a $4,000.00 job.

[thomas1]

Did you take pictures? I would and contact a lawyer for a consultation and then re establish communication with Lexus of America and show them the pictures. I would bet you get results then....I would not stand for their answer. You have valid proof of the sludge with a clogged oil screen and back cover indications. You just unfortunately got a dealership that sucks. they are out there.

[salimshah]

Sad.

It seems like you did not take the dead beast to the dealer to let them determine what is wrong. Even well intentioned path of action at times causes problem. IN my experience [although limited] every time the repair/diagnosis facility is other than the party who is authorized to work, you run into problems. Prior authorization always helps, in case you are stuck at a place where the company dealership does not exist.

IN the gel issue, there is a further gray line where the negligence comes in. I would suggest mediation or to pursuit it with a lawyers assistance.

Salim
Note; Do not confuse the dealership with the Lexus Corp. The dealership makes money in the process of warranty repairs. At the same time they try to keep a right balance the warranty costs to the manufacturer. If you eliminate them from the middle, they have even less incentive to bat for you.

[robertrios]

I have an 02 RX and it just hit 70k, is there anything i should do to avoid these issues other then doing the oil changes every 3k and the tranny fluid whenever the dealer recommends it? Luckily they offerend me an exteneded 4 year warranty on the car so if anything does break down in the next 4 years ill be fine but it still worries me a little.

[lexus114]

Originally Posted by robertrios

I have an 02 RX and it just hit 70k, is there anything i should do to avoid these issues other then doing the oil changes every 3k and the tranny fluid whenever the dealer recommends it? Luckily they offerend me an exteneded 4 year warranty on the car so if anything does break down in the next 4 years ill be fine but it still worries me a little.

To start with you can pull your front valve cover to make sure you have no sludge,and drain/fill your trans with Synthetic fluid.

[frankjames]

I actually went to the dealership the day after I had it towed and they didn't even mention the fact that there was a possible sludge issue with the engines! I had to go online to research. When they do the initial inspection they only pull the front valve cover.(There was minor sludge build up by the oil return side on this as well which they denied was sludge w/t/f again right) They engine in the RX is tilted back on a slight angle so the build up is more likely to be under the rear valve cover. I understand this is hard to access but it's hard to believe they wouldn't check the oil pan though!! There is a 1/4 inch of buildup on the oil pan walls mainly the front side. There is not an excessive amount of sludge in it but it was built up on the rear head. it is on the oil return side, pretty obvious that is going to travel back down to the pan. I believe I am unable to get my own attorney past DEC 2006. I have several pics to prove my case. i am going to a local independent shop to have them document it and when I send the engine out for the rebuild I am also going to have them document the sludge. I purchase the vehicle from an independent dealer, his daughter was driving it for the past year and he has the oil changes documented(3000 miles). According to the settlement Lexus only recommends an oil change every 7500 miles or 5000 miles in extreme driving conditions I.E. stop and go driving, or otherwise driving the vehicle hard. The thing that amazes me is that they won't even admit that it is sludge and they will only refer to it as "gelling". I have done research online and found about 10 other cases that happened the same as mine and was denied to those people as well. There is another thing, there is not a uniform way in which they handle these cases everyone has been offered different settlement terms. Lexus corporate suggested I try to take action against the dealer I bought it from but this is obviously a manufacturer defect otherwise there would not have been a class action. Several claims have been denied even with obvious sludge issues and proof of service records. I always run full sythetic (Mobil One) in my vehicles but this one didn't even make it to it's first oil change with me. When do they step up to the plate and take responsiblity? It's an extremely well documented issue. Besides the cost, it is a major inconvience to be out of a vehicle for this amount of time. I own a 2000 Lexus Gs400 as well that has been a great vehicle, 170k and no major issues at all, it's kinda funny that when I pulled the valve covers on that to take a peak that it had none of the "normal build up."(I'm quoting the service manager who looked at the sludge buildup on the valve cover and the pics of the sludge in the head and on the oil pick-up on the RX). Through the settlement I can get a third party mediator which I have elected to do because I have a feeling Lexus is trying to run me out of the coverage peroid of AUG this year. I actually have a suspiscion that the Lexus dealer may have cleaned the front head out. There were several mechanics all gathered around the front of the vehicle(4-5 people) and it took them a long time to come back in to tell me that there was no sludge(20+minutes)after I had seen them take off the valve cover (I have no proof but something tells me they are pretty shady on this whole situation.) Not to mention the fact they dismissed me as if I had no idea what I was talking about on both occasions I went in. I have also read cases where engines failed due to sludge and where replaced with no proof of service, there is no universal way in which they handled the situation at all. Mostly though I have read of several ligitimate claims being denied!

[frankjames]

Originally Posted by salimshah

Sad.

It seems like you did not take the dead beast to the dealer to let them determine what is wrong. Even well intentioned path of action at times causes problem. IN my experience [although limited] every time the repair/diagnosis facility is other than the party who is authorized to work, you run into problems. Prior authorization always helps, in case you are stuck at a place where the company dealership does not exist.

IN the gel issue, there is a further gray line where the negligence comes in. I would suggest mediation or to pursuit it with a lawyers assistance.

Salim
Note; Do not confuse the dealership with the Lexus Corp. The dealership makes money in the process of warranty repairs. At the same time they try to keep a right balance the warranty costs to the manufacturer. If you eliminate them from the middle, they have even less incentive to bat for you.

Took to Lexus of Madison to inspect. Said no evidence of "gelling" upon my inspection went back. Talked to Lexus of Madison in Madison, WI and showed this pics above and others along with bringing the rear valve cover in with noticable sludge build up! Can also prove all oil changes. W/T/F???

[thomas1]

that is definetly sludge, my neigbors engine looked like that (highlander) Same failure oil pump pickup starved for oil. The cam VVTI gear also failed on the front cam....We rebuilt his engine. Here is picture of front valve cover with only 53kmiles and recommended oil changes after scooping out a coffee can worth of goop....

[frankjames]

more info here
http://www.oilgelsettlement.com/settlement.pdf
what is the difference between gel and sludge? Nothing! Toyota/Lexus just doesn't like the word sludge. Refer to to the upper attachment for verbage clarification it's stated in definitions section #25 Oil Gel-means material commonly referred to as "sludge" that can impede the operation of the engine, cause damage to engine parts and, in some cases, require engine replacement. (Lexus/Toyota use that verbage to deny claims)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_sludge

[artbuc]

Originally Posted by frankjames

more info here
http://www.oilgelsettlement.com/settlement.pdf
what is the difference between gel and sludge? Nothing! Toyota/Lexus just doesn't like the word sludge. Refer to to the upper attachment for verbage clarification it's stated in definitions section #25 Oil Gel-means material commonly referred to as "sludge" that can impede the operation of the engine, cause damage to engine parts and, in some cases, require engine replacement. (Lexus/Toyota use that verbage to deny claims)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_sludge

Here is a quote from the "Legal Notice for Toyota and Lexus customers" which I received in the mail and was instructed to put it my glove box:

"The Toyota/Lexus Customer Support Program ("CSP") protects this vehicle beyond the original vehicle warranty for damage from oil gel or sludge."

Looks pretty clear to me that, for the purposes of this settlement, "oil gel" and "sludge" are one in the same.

[frankjames]

They tried to tell me that engine failed because it had been previously overheated. That was causing my oil consumtion. (The said ring damage or warping of the block) Not to mention they never even pulled the oil pan for their sludge inspection. If you look at the oil pick up it is pretty obvious. I also forgot to mention it was offered for sale at McGrath Lexus in IL on 6-18-07 with 79,690 miles (obviously they inspect any vehicle they offer for sale) then sold to the dealer I purchased from on 9-27-07 with 79,748 miles. So less than 8k since they last saw it in their service department! Other reported engine failures in same manor at http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/lexus_p5.html. Since I've gotten it tore down this far is there a fix for the trans issue I'm gonna have a week after I get this engine back in LOL

[code58]

Originally Posted by artbuc

Here is a quote from the "Legal Notice for Toyota and Lexus customers" which I received in the mail and was instructed to put it my glove box:

"The Toyota/Lexus Customer Support Program ("CSP") protects this vehicle beyond the original vehicle warranty for damage from oil gel or sludge."

Looks pretty clear to me that, for the purposes of this settlement, "oil gel" and "sludge" are one in the same.

Art- I think to anyone who has gone past the 3rd grade it is pretty obvious that they are one and the same. Why was it even necessary to put that in there (2 terms for it). Probably paid some Philly lawyer good money to figure how to word that so that they didn't offend people who didn't want to hear their Lexus had "sludge" in their engine. Sorry but sometimes I think we all need to have some skin thickening exercises. Sorry, Cambridge is on my mind.

[colenzae]

What can be done to prevent this from happening?? I have an 02' with 157,000 miles and have run conventional oil from day one. Oil has been changed between 5-6,000 miles. After reading this forum, I am considering going all synthetic for future oil / trans / differential maintainence.