mcfancy

Has anyone seen these for sale in their area. Be interested in zip code. None here in New England

kitlz

I've been told by my dealer that the 450h F-Sport will be a special order, which is what I had to do when I wanted the sport package on my current 450h. A bummer but on the bright side you can get exactly what you want and the snow will be gone by the time it arrives.

JsGX460

I just picked up mine on wed. They are making the, as special order.

I was told there was only a couple on the west coast, and any further are special order.

mcfancy

Thanks. I know the hybrid won't payoff vs gas but be interested in why you guys went hybrid?

kitlz

Like you said, it's not just about recouping the price difference which is not that much IMO. The hybrid has more features than the gas version, both standard and optional. Also less maintenance cost, super smooth driving, and more HPs. I switched over almost six years ago and don't plan on buying a gas only vehicle anytime soon. It's addictive.

dchar

Not sure about your statements.
1) The only things I see as "standard" on the 450h and not the 350 are: navigation, Enform app suite, BSM, and Park Assist; but all can be added to the 350. All the optional packages are offered on both cars. For $10K more, the 450h better come "standard" with a few extra stuff.

2) Maintenance cost should be about the same since the 450h still has a 3.5L V6, similar to that in the 350, which still needs oil changes and etc. every 10K miles and tires cost just as much.

3) The performance figures between the 450h and 350 are very similar now.
450h: 308 hp, 0-60 in 7.7 sec, 4608 lbs, 31/30/30 mpg
350: 295 hp, 0-60 in 7.7 sec, 4,222 lbs, 20/23/28 mpg

Honestly, I'm confused why people get the 450h over the 350. The gas savings aren't significant enough (only saving a $250-300 dollars a year in gas, with gas prices so cheap and 15K miles/year), it isn't any smoother than the 350 due to constantly switching between gas and electric, short electric range with restrictive speed limit, heavier weight which makes handling worse, CVT transmission has some inherently annoying characteristics (droning and rubbery power delivery), annoying high pitched hybrid sounds while driving and fan sound to cool down batteries and regen braking sounds, recommendation to put premium gas rather than regular (which the 350 uses), same maintanence costs, and no special perks like stickers for carpool lane. Not saying the 450h is a bad car, just want to understand why people get it over the 350. I kinda understand for people outside the US that are worried about running costs/taxes due to CO2 emissions, but that isn't too much of a concern here. Besides extra "prestige" for owning the top RX model, can anyone else explain better why 450h over 350?

RXOwner

My dealer only has a couple of the 450 units coming in in the nest 3 months. He told me that I would have to special order if I wanted it loaded with options. The units he does have coming a lacking options.

I had. 450 a few years back and was disappointed in the power. It seems you really had to put you foot in it to get it moving. My 350 makes it seem effortless.

kitlz

Standard on RXh (per the ‘16 RX brochure)
Premium package
Heated and ventilated front seats
Power moonroof
Blind Spot Monitor and Rear Cross Traffic Alert
Intuitive Parking Assist
Navigation with 8.0" screen

When building a loaded 350 F-Sport and the 450h F-Sport online, the difference is closer to $6K - $58.3K vs. $64.1K. And I could add panorama roof to the 450h but not to the 350. It forces me to select power moonroof at $1,000. Obviously it's a site error since inventory in the area shows a few with panorama roof. So add $600 to above 350 cost ($1,600 minus $1,000 for power moonroof). That brings it down to a $5K difference.

True on the oil changes and tires. But brakes and the battery last longer. Should I mention less brake dust too?

Still more HP and better mileage. And AWD is 7.9 seconds for both the 350 and 450h.

I save money, even more when gas prices drop. And I get a discount per gallon using a loyalty card. That drops the annual cost further.

If your focus is on that, then go with the 350.

The 350 is now 8-speed. On the ’13 350 F-Sport I took for a test drive which was 8-speed, it was far from smooth. Now I haven't driven the '16 350 yet. Maybe Monday. On the 450h, switching between electric and gas is a non-issue. I can’t tell when it happens while driving. When stopped, it's more obvious. And I wouldn't say it's constant.

Stealth mode, as we like to call it, is speed limited. If I wanted to be completely electric at all speeds, I’d buy a different vehicle.

The 450h is no slouch with the extra weight. And it hasn’t affected handling IMO.

Cant say I experience that.

Can’t say I experience that either and I’m sensitive to high pitched noises. The only fan I hear is when I have the ventilated seats on. And some of us like the sound of the regenerative braking.

If using premium is an issue, then go with the 350. It's not worth discussing.

Similar but not exactly the same.

No carpool lanes here in my area but I've heard some states are moving to add to the cost of owning a hybrid because they use less gas and therefore pay less taxes. Not me though.

And I’m not going to try. We all have our reasons. Just so you know, I did drive both back to back six years ago.


mcfancy, I hope having to special order doesn't change your mind. Waiting a few months is painful. But the reward is well worth it.

coolsaber

^Tl : DR
I want to buy the RX450H cause I like it and I can.

With almost no economical benefit, no performance gain, no cost to own benefit, no smaller carbon footprint, this is primarily a purchase thats motivated by personal preference. Nothing wrong with that

Mdme

^That is why I will get the 450h F sport.

Well, aside from the....

1) instant torque
2) less carbon footprint
3) prestige
4) dual propulsion advantage. (Saved me once when I was in rising waters during a big storm and the engine stalled when something hit the engine. I was able to get to higher ground on the electric propulsion alone with the engine shot!)

dchar

That's good that the price difference is closer to $5-6K when optioned similarly rather than $10K, but spending that much more just for slightly better fuel economy, more environmental friendliness, and more exclusivity, but no performance benefits and nearly impossible to recoup cost doesn't seem worth it to me.

Yes, you may save money on brakes (pads and rotors) and battery (which isn't changed out too often, and covered if within warranty period), but replacing the hybrid batteries outside of warranty would probably be a lot worse. Not sure how long Lexus guarantees those hybrid batteries.

Yes, it has more power, but it's wasted on lugging the extra weight of the hybrid system.

I think you mean you'll have more savings when gas prices decide to skyrocket again, but still not enough to cover the cost of 450h over 350.

You are right about my exaggeration of constant switching, but it is quite noticeable from a stop I think and it gets kind of annoying driving around town.

"Stealth mode" seems to be pretty much limited to driving in stop-and-go traffic and drive thrus since it is so limited. Some new hybrids (plug-in types) let you go a decent distance up to 80 mph on electric power only. The 450h would make more sense if it had this ability.

With an additional 300+ pounds, the handling will be affected; the car will lean more, squat, and dive more as the weight is shifted around. Not to mention, braking distance will suffer as a result of extra weight.

All CVT have a weird power delivery band and the engine makes weird droning sounds when trying to accelerate hard or passing a car. The 450h definitely isn't as responsive on power delivery as the 350 either.

The fan cooling sound is noticeable, especially from rear passengers who are sitting on top of the batteries. I had a friend sitting near the vent and he was wondering about the fan sounds. I could hear it humming away from the driver's seat too. The sounds of the regen braking I think are cool at first, but become annoying and unnecessary after awhile. If BMW can make silent regen braking systems, I'm sure Lexus can too.

CA will not be giving the RX450h the carpool benefit because it just isn't a "clean" car compared to other hybrids and electric cars.

I have driven both (2015, not 2016 though) for an extended period as loaners, and these are my observations. I'm sure the 2016s are vastly more improved, but these observations probably still exist.

It seems like the 450h purchase is more of an emotional one rather than a logical one; having bragging rights that you got the highest RX model and not seeing your car on the road that often. Anything else?

dchar

That's interesting...I never considered that. I probably wouldn't drive my Lexus in "rising waters" but it makes sense if you don't have any other option.

kitlz

dhcar, how about we continue the conversation about whether the hybrid is worth it in an existing thread here?

dchar

Well it seemed like the OP was curious, I am as well, of why people went with the 450h. I was just stating the facts and observations.

coolsaber

All good points, especially 4 (didnt know the electric motors still function if the engine is hydrolocked).

Side note
1) Maybe instant torque, but still no affect in real world performance as per 0-60 times.
2) fallacy, as the battery mfg process basically negates whatever carbon footprint savings you have by operating the hybrid, which would neeed to be operated a very long time to achieve said saviings
3) I guess, but i guess when a Cayenne pulls up