User 41924

A few weeks ago, my wife was pulling into her parking spot at work as she does every day, when our 2010 RX (about 24K miles) started to accelerate very aggressively on it's own. It’s a fairly small lot, and she has a 90 degree turn maybe 30 feet before actually entering the same spot she parks in every day. This is important, as it seems to guarantee that she is not intentionally accelerating at the time. She is simply coasting through the small lot, and into her spot. When the car started to accelerate, she slammed on the brakes and stopped the car inches from the building in front of her spot. She doesn’t remember hearing the engine continue to race as if the accelerator was stuck, which tells me it most likely was not. I truly believe this is NOT a matter of a sticking pedal, since she was coasting at the time the acceleration started, and not accelerating at all. I can’t say without question that she didn’t do SOMETHING to cause this, as but the circumstances seem to minimize this possibility. Either way, this has never happened before, and she parks in the same spot every work day!

I took the car into the dealer to have them run diagnostics to see if they could find anything, knowing the chances were pretty small. They had the car for over a week (I had a very nice 2012 loaner!), and found nothing. Lexus was fully engaged, and it is my understanding they even sent an engineer to investigate in depth. They reported there were “no mechanical or electrical issues at this time presenting an issue”, and they were “unable to duplicate any drivability issues and at this time the vehicle is operating as designed”. Although this was expected, it’s still a bit disappointing. I would have MUCH preferred they found something they could fix, OR identified something my wife might have done to create the issue. With no input at all, I can only worry about it happening again, with possibly more significant impact.

When I picked the car up, I talked to the Service Manager about my alternatives, since I absolutely have NO confidence this won’t happen again, and I don’t want to keep a car I can’t trust to not kill my wife, me, or someone else. I was told that because they were unable to reproduce any issues, Lexus is uninterested in doing ANYTHING to help. We have 2 years remaining on a lease, which I was hoping that Lexus would simply terminate. But they seem to be completely washing their hands of the issue as if it never happened. Except it did, regardless of their investigation.

Fortunately, the dealer (Kuni Lexus, in Littleton, CO) is stepping up at their level. They have offered to take my exceptionally well cared for car in trade, and sell me a new car at “cost”. This will (hopefully) result in no change in my lease payment and no impact to our credit beyond our available credit (which impacts our credit score). I was hoping Lexus would simply terminate the lease so I could buy something else with no concern about unintended acceleration. Taking advantage of the dealer's offer winds up costing me more money, but at least I would have a different (and newer) car with 25K fewer miles.

I’m honestly not trying to scam anyone! I have loved the RX from the first day we bought it. I like it SO much; we bought a Lexus IS350 when we needed a car for me to drive! I think this issue was likely just a fluke, and is limited to this specific car. It just bothers me that Lexus is completely unresponsive beyond their investigation, and is unwilling consider my concern for my wife's (or anyone else's) safety. Maybe they're just sensitive to unintended acceleration issues.

I apologize for the long post (rant), but with the Lexus commitment to customer satisfaction, this seemed like an easy opportunity for them to excel. Unfortunately, they seem to me to have dropped the ball. Thoughts? Am I being unreasonable?

dctex99

I will give all a little education without comment....ALL cars are going to "drive by wire" systems.....Ok,,you have 12 volts in your battery...The Toyota/Lexus system sends 2.4 volts for full acceleration, 1.9 volts for an approximate cruising speed. FORD uses 9.5 volts at full acceleration and 5.5 volts at cruising(all numbers approximate)...Which system would more likely fail???? Thiese are the results from an independent study. If one company admitted their system was poorly designed and ever admitted fault it would bankrupt them, hence, we have "cut down floor mats to eleviate the problem of floormats sticking accelerators" . I still drive a Lexus.

BertL

Woody: I wasn't in your wife's specific situation, and I'm not her husband, so may not have the same empathy here, but since you asked for thoughts, honestly, it seems like Lexus has done a lot... diagnostics with free loaner for a week, and a customer sat offer to get you out of a car you question -- even when they can't find any problem with it -- and into a new Lexus. I would never expect any car mfgr or dealer to let me completely out of my lease or car payment so I could walk away to another brand because of an issue that could not be recreated and was not pervasive.

I too get frustrated when I have a strange "one time occurrence" come up that can't be found -- be that with my car, an appliance, my computer or whatever, but perhaps since I was in the technical service business for 35+ years, I understand sometimes individual situations happen or are perceived by a customer to have happened (including myself!) where the mfgr can't reproduce the issue. In my company, as I'm sure with Toyota/Lexus, don't think they have ignored the facts you brought the car in, what the reported problem was and what diagnostic results were generated. We kept and had teams of people that data mined all that sort of thing to watch for unusual trends, provide feedback to manufacturing or development, etc -- it's the sort of behind-the-scenes stuff we did that I suspect Lexus does as well to ultimately find good/bad trends, prioritize areas needing more analysis by development, or create changes to existing and future products. I get that this situation is more severe than other things that could occur, but my personal view is your Lexus dealer has excelled trying to make you a local offer with a new Lexus. They didn't have to. I'm sorry the situation has occurred to you and your wife, and you're not happy with what your dealer has tried to offer in the name of customer satisfaction.

User 41924

Why? What is the actual cost to Lexus to simply terminate the lease without admitting anything is wrong, as a customer care expense? Instead, they are comfortable either transferring that cost to me, or asking my wife to drive a car with a potentially huge safety issue they can't identify. It's not MY fault they can't find what happened, and the fact that they can't find root cause doesn't mean it didn't. It is their failure. Twice. First when it happened, and again when they failed to determine the cause and fix it. Unless of course, they are telling me they don't believe it happened. It should have been an easy choice for Lexus to offer to help in some way.

Also, please don't misunderstand! I am grateful the dealer (Kuni Lexus in Littleton) has stepped up, as I agree it is clearly NOT their responsibility. They have told me they are interested in keeping a customer that is loyal to them AND Lexus, and have offered to help as they can. I have NO concerns with the dealer, and tried to make my sincere appreciation of their efforts clear. Apparently, I was less successful than I had hoped, so let me be clear now. Kuni Lexus has performed above and beyond any reasonable expectations, and I gladly give them all the credit they deserve. They have been great!

Thanks for your feedback!

Marqevans

The difference is the difference in price from a new car to a previously titled used car and the liability if the condition is not disclosed to a new buyer

Cruiter

Woody, glad the car was stopped and no one or their property was damaged. I read your post a couple of times and feel your anguish, but as you stated there is no answer even though Lexus tried hard to find one for you. It's going to remain without an answer. BUT .... The dealer is trying hard without help from Lexus to make you a happy customer. I have to agree with Bert on this one. This car as you can determine yourself from the posts here as well as from Consumer Reports and other reporting articles is one of if not the most reliable midsize Luxury SUV on the road today. I can't tell you how to feel, that's for yourself to determine.

Lexus Corp does not sell pre-owned vehicals. They could only take it back if they determined something was wrong with the car then my best guess is it would never be sold again. They tried. But try and look at the plus side of things. The dealer is bending over backwards and giving up profit on an allocated vehicle for you. The car's history is nothing short of excellent. Go from there ???

RXSF

It may be hard for you to take a step back from the situation since it did happen to a loved one of yours and god forbid anything like that happen to me, I too would not want to drive that car again. With that said, there is no guarantee that the car did accelerate on its own since human error is usually to blame in these cases.

Nobody was there to witness it. You also have to realize that after federal investigation and also private investigation, nobody can find a link between unintended acceleration and Lexus/Toyota vehicles...only the possibility of trapped gas pedals, which was resolved from redesigned mats and pedals.

So from an objective standpoint, it is very difficult for Lexus to find and even believe (though that may be too strong of a word) that the car has unintended acceleration issues.

I have done emergency braking tests myself on all of my vehicles that claim to have the smart stop system which makes the car "listen" to the brakes instead of the gas. On my RXh, when I depress the acceleration pedal and then depress the brake pedal, I can hear the car still revving, but the engine seems to be disengaged from the drive train, like if I was flooring the car in neutral. I dont know if the RX gas model does the same thing, but if it does, and if you say your wife did not hear the engine revving when she stepped on the brake, then it makes me believe there was no unintended acceleration. Now I should say that on my other German car, when I do this test, the engine completely quiets down and all I have are the brakes. If this is the case with the RX gas, then my theory is not conclusive.

The only other thing that could have proved it was if she actually crashed the vehicle...then the black box would record the final seconds before impact.

Best of luck on what you decide to do.

Cough

Does no one care that the dealership intends to sell this car on essentially "as is" without finding the poblem (if there ever was one)

UCSB

Given the sitting position and huge amount of room in the RX, I have found on a few occasions that I have had to realign my foot with the pedals. For example, I thought I was in the center of the brake pedal, but may have been off center. I have not experienced any dangerous problems from this, but once I was very close to the accelerator end of the brake pedal and for a moment was not sure if I was on the brake or accelerator. In a confined space it might have been an issue. There is a small amount of confusion when you realize that you have slightly drifted on the pedal positions.

DunWkg

This discussion has made me think I need to go out and experiment. As UCSB has mentioned, I too need to realign every so often. In the 2010, my size 14 shoe would creep over to both pedals leading to lurches when stopping. I need to verify Lexus made the programming change preventing simultanious operating in the 2012.

Woodrow didn't mention size 14 shoes, so I doubt that is the problem.

User 41924

I'll tell my wife to just let it go, next time. I'm just SURE she'll understand!

Thank you to all for your understanding and help! I expected to get pretty beat up on this, because both the car AND the brand are so well liked by everyone. Including me. Instead, I got legitimate responses and understanding of my situation. I really appreciate that! I'm just frustrated. I know that we can't count out human error as the cause, but to question whether or not it happened upsets me. To me, that's a given, and not investigating until they find out exactly why is borderline irresponsible. I work with computers, and I understand that intermittent issues are extremely difficult to resolve, but we HAVE to keep going until they are fixed. We can't just throw up our hands and say we hope it doesn't happen again! Our customers would never accept that response, but it seems to me that is what Lexus is doing. That said, based on the responses I have seen here, I have decided to move on. Sometimes I get caught up in the fight, and forget the goal. Thanks for the re-focus!

Because the dealer is trying so hard to be helpful, I'm sure we'll be able to work something out. I can't express enough how much I appreciate their efforts on our behalf, and they deserve consideration in return. Besides, this way we'll get a new 2013 RX. I'm anxious to see if it is any different than the 2010. I'll repost when we finish the deal.

Cruiter

Woody, I think you're choosing the only reasonable path there is, it should all work out OK and you'll hopefully be able to put this behind you and enjoy the new car. Please, do keep up posted.

We wish you and your wife well .

Sevn86

do post pics of the 2013!

LeoDLion

It is a bit disconcerting that this happened on an RX. If that was me, the only thing I would do is to take the dealer's offer and change the car. What will the dealer do with the car? I don't know. If they sell it and the same thing happen and with that history they will be in a lot of trouble should an accident happen.

kitlz

Woody, scary story. I'm glad no one was hurt and the dealer is letting you out of the lease. I had to pursue lemon law on my Ford with the opposite problem, sudden deceleration, among two dozen other problems. Driving it was downright dangerous. I couldn't get five dealers to fix it. Instead I was treated like a neurotic female. It wasn't fun or cheap going the legal route between a lawyer and expert witness. I had the last laugh though. The judge was female And Ford had to take the POS back. It was worth every penny. After that experience, finding a safe and reliable vehicle was top priority to me. Lexus just came out with the RX. I drove it and fell in love. Almost fourteen years later, I'm on my third one.

I wish you and your wife the best of luck with whatever vehicle you choose. Hopefully it will be another RX. Please let us know what happens.