Wideview Side Mirror Monitoring System
08-19-12, 12:39 PM
#1
Driver
Thread Starter
Wideview Side Mirror Monitoring System
I've noticed that my RX does not have it although my package is supposed to include it. Those of you with Ultra Premium Package, have you verified that you have it? If you have, do you find it to be a useful feature?
Would appreciate your comment. thanks
Would appreciate your comment. thanks
08-19-12, 01:13 PM
#2
Moderator
For those of us in the US at least, this was discontinued in the 2013 line, and effectively replaced by the new optional blind spot monitor. I'll let one of our Canadian friends confirm if that's the same up your way.
08-19-12, 03:30 PM
#4
I just received my ultra premium too and doesn't have it. It also doesn't have blind spot monitoring. They really should have added that to the ultra premium considering the price. Probably a 2014 addition lol.
08-19-12, 04:08 PM
#5
Driver
Thread Starter
I think I should insist that my dealership install it or its replacement because the lexus website clearly states it is included in the package. That partly influenced my decision to purchase the package and if it's true that they discontinued it, it was not mentioned to me and they should have removed that in the package in the first place. This can be construed as false advertising.
08-19-12, 06:20 PM
#6
I think I should insist that my dealership install it or its replacement because the lexus website clearly states it is included in the package. That partly influenced my decision to purchase the package and if it's true that they discontinued it, it was not mentioned to me and they should have removed that in the package in the first place. This can be construed as false advertising.
I don't see either the old or new feature listed on the lexus.ca website (here) or in the lexus.ca brochure (page 20 of this pdf)
08-20-12, 01:36 AM
#7
Driver School Candidate
I think I should insist that my dealership install it or its replacement because the lexus website clearly states it is included in the package. That partly influenced my decision to purchase the package and if it's true that they discontinued it, it was not mentioned to me and they should have removed that in the package in the first place. This can be construed as false advertising.
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08-20-12, 04:03 AM
#8
Driver
Thread Starter
The roughly equivalent package in the US ("Luxury") as well as the mid-level "premium" trim level each come in two variants - with and without Blind Spot Monitor. See page 70 in the online brochure here.
I don't see either the old or new feature listed on the lexus.ca website (here) or in the lexus.ca brochure (page 20 of this pdf)
I don't see either the old or new feature listed on the lexus.ca website (here) or in the lexus.ca brochure (page 20 of this pdf)
http://www.lexus.ca/lexus/experience...m_model=BK1BAT
When you go "Build and Price" a 2013 RX 350 and choose an Ultra Premium Package 1 or 2, it lists it in the details of the package.
08-20-12, 05:42 AM
#9
Moderator
OP, I suggest if you feel things were not represented correctly in your sales transaction, you need to rapidly go talk to your dealer. Those of us on this forum are not going to be able to help a lot, as we were not there, and our comments will likely only get you more charged up.
At least here in the US, the "build and price" online capability seems to be showing more of what is available on dealers lots, not really what the possibilities are on a special order. I also don't remember that "build and price" is tied to any specific VIN. Regardless, we have found specific situations where that online system can say a RX has HID with AFS for example, to only find the physical vehicle on the lot has HID but no AFS (as that was discontinued in the 2013s). The sticker on the physical vehicle does not say AFS is there, nor does it in any of the brochures. IMO it will be difficult to use the information from "build and price" as evidence things were not represented correctly against the physical vehicle you purchased -- but I'm not a lawyer either.
Sorry this comes across as my not being supportive of what I think you're trying to say happened and why you feel dissed. As I said, I wasn't there and don't have both sides of the story to really offer any more help, except to say I know some of the Lexus IT systems and Marketing materials have been out of whack on the 2013 when it comes to a few optional details. I'm not aware though of an example where a sticker saying a specific vehicle has something that it does not. I've special ordered and purchased a number of vehicles over the years, and feel it's my responsibility to ensure the vehicle I purchase has exactly what I expect before I sign my name on the dotted line and drive it off the lot. Perhaps I'm just too detailed, e.g. when my RXh arrived in June, I triple checked options I ordered last November on the sticker and physically verified a couple of features were operational that were important to me but don't show up on the sticker summary. If you are unhappy, go in and talk to your dealer. There is at least one other person on the forum (or maybe it was his wife) in recent months that brought a vehicle home, only to find it didn't have something they thought it should -- they went back to their dealer and in one case I believe a vehicle swap was made -- unsure in the other what the result was, as not everyone closes the loop with posts they make. Good luck with your pursuit. I hope your discouragement with the lack of the side monitoring system is rapidly displaced with enjoyment of your RX and all it's other great capabilities.
At least here in the US, the "build and price" online capability seems to be showing more of what is available on dealers lots, not really what the possibilities are on a special order. I also don't remember that "build and price" is tied to any specific VIN. Regardless, we have found specific situations where that online system can say a RX has HID with AFS for example, to only find the physical vehicle on the lot has HID but no AFS (as that was discontinued in the 2013s). The sticker on the physical vehicle does not say AFS is there, nor does it in any of the brochures. IMO it will be difficult to use the information from "build and price" as evidence things were not represented correctly against the physical vehicle you purchased -- but I'm not a lawyer either.
Sorry this comes across as my not being supportive of what I think you're trying to say happened and why you feel dissed. As I said, I wasn't there and don't have both sides of the story to really offer any more help, except to say I know some of the Lexus IT systems and Marketing materials have been out of whack on the 2013 when it comes to a few optional details. I'm not aware though of an example where a sticker saying a specific vehicle has something that it does not. I've special ordered and purchased a number of vehicles over the years, and feel it's my responsibility to ensure the vehicle I purchase has exactly what I expect before I sign my name on the dotted line and drive it off the lot. Perhaps I'm just too detailed, e.g. when my RXh arrived in June, I triple checked options I ordered last November on the sticker and physically verified a couple of features were operational that were important to me but don't show up on the sticker summary. If you are unhappy, go in and talk to your dealer. There is at least one other person on the forum (or maybe it was his wife) in recent months that brought a vehicle home, only to find it didn't have something they thought it should -- they went back to their dealer and in one case I believe a vehicle swap was made -- unsure in the other what the result was, as not everyone closes the loop with posts they make. Good luck with your pursuit. I hope your discouragement with the lack of the side monitoring system is rapidly displaced with enjoyment of your RX and all it's other great capabilities.
08-20-12, 06:32 AM
#10
Driver
Thread Starter
Thanks BertL.
Yes, I intend to go back to the dealership and bring this to their attention as I feel they misrepresented themselves to me. That feature is one of the reasons why I went for an Ultra Premium Package. The gentleman who sold the vehicle to me used the website to customize my package and nothing was mentioned to me about features that have been discontinued.
I guess I am asking for an opinion whether I have a legitimate case.
Yes, I intend to go back to the dealership and bring this to their attention as I feel they misrepresented themselves to me. That feature is one of the reasons why I went for an Ultra Premium Package. The gentleman who sold the vehicle to me used the website to customize my package and nothing was mentioned to me about features that have been discontinued.
I guess I am asking for an opinion whether I have a legitimate case.
08-20-12, 08:17 AM
#11
Moderator
With what I know, my personal opinion is that the salesman who used the website likely made a legitimate mistake beyond his knowledge, and it wasn't his or the dealership's specific fault, but Lexus.com had errors in their website that caused you both problems. I'd go at it that way if I was talking to my dealer, and hopefully keep the salesman and dealership on your side vs. make this adversarial and @#$*& them off out of the box -- you'd end up with a whole lot less that way in the long run. As I told the Lexus Customer Sat folks earlier this year when I found the discrepancies with headlights and their features on the 2013s, I believe Lexus HQ created a lot of problems for both their dealerships AND customers because of not doing a better job keeping their systems and feature descriptions in-sync. Your transaction, unfortunately, is another example of someone caught by those problems -- and I bet, so was your dealer themselves.
Something to think about: If I were being a hard-nosed guy doing negotiation (and I did multi-million $ contract negotiation for a large IT company for many years), the first question I'd ask you is why you didn't notice and bring this to my attention before now if this option was so important to you. You should have a real crisp answer ready.
If you asked me for a point blank "do you have a case?", I'd base an awful lot of my initial response on how you reply to that.
The reality is, the wide view monitor is gone from the 2013. You need to also think about what you want Lexus to do to make it right -- if that is possible. As every day goes by and you put more miles on your truck, you're going to have a harder time with what the dealer can do to help you. It would be a whole lot different if you had brought this to their attention the day after you purchased it, I suspect. By now, you likely won't find a NEW 2012 with the option, and it cannot be put onto the 2013 -- the service manuals I went through a few months back (see another thread I created here on CL on technical differences of 2012-13) specifically indicate it is GONE -- not just the physical mirrors but the subsystems that connect it to the rest of the truck. If there are any other features in the ultra premium package you want or care about, vs the next lower package you have in Canada and you really desire (sorry, I'm not familiar with them), I believe your case will be less than if you only bought ultra premium because of the single wide view monitor option. I suspect the best the dealer could do is maybe give you some kind of credit, free service or something, but who knows. The vehicle cost to the dealers and therefore price quoted to you on the 2013s were all done without the wide view monitor being included, so any financial recourse now is likely out of the dealer's pocket as a goodwill gesture. You need to think it out what you really want, then what you'd be OK with -- just as in any negotiation. I'd quickly at least pick up the phone and make an appt with your salesman saying you need to discuss a couple things with him about your car, and get over there as soon as you can.
Something to think about: If I were being a hard-nosed guy doing negotiation (and I did multi-million $ contract negotiation for a large IT company for many years), the first question I'd ask you is why you didn't notice and bring this to my attention before now if this option was so important to you. You should have a real crisp answer ready.
If you asked me for a point blank "do you have a case?", I'd base an awful lot of my initial response on how you reply to that.The reality is, the wide view monitor is gone from the 2013. You need to also think about what you want Lexus to do to make it right -- if that is possible. As every day goes by and you put more miles on your truck, you're going to have a harder time with what the dealer can do to help you. It would be a whole lot different if you had brought this to their attention the day after you purchased it, I suspect. By now, you likely won't find a NEW 2012 with the option, and it cannot be put onto the 2013 -- the service manuals I went through a few months back (see another thread I created here on CL on technical differences of 2012-13) specifically indicate it is GONE -- not just the physical mirrors but the subsystems that connect it to the rest of the truck. If there are any other features in the ultra premium package you want or care about, vs the next lower package you have in Canada and you really desire (sorry, I'm not familiar with them), I believe your case will be less than if you only bought ultra premium because of the single wide view monitor option. I suspect the best the dealer could do is maybe give you some kind of credit, free service or something, but who knows. The vehicle cost to the dealers and therefore price quoted to you on the 2013s were all done without the wide view monitor being included, so any financial recourse now is likely out of the dealer's pocket as a goodwill gesture. You need to think it out what you really want, then what you'd be OK with -- just as in any negotiation. I'd quickly at least pick up the phone and make an appt with your salesman saying you need to discuss a couple things with him about your car, and get over there as soon as you can.
08-20-12, 08:27 AM
#12
Driver
Thread Starter
With what I know, my personal opinion is that the salesman who used the website likely made a legitimate mistake beyond his knowledge, and it wasn't his or the dealership's specific fault, but Lexus.com had errors in their website that caused you both problems. I'd go at it that way if I was talking to my dealer, and hopefully keep the salesman and dealership on your side vs. make this adversarial and @#$*& them off out of the box -- you'd end up with a whole lot less that way in the long run. As I told the Lexus Customer Sat folks earlier this year when I found the discrepancies with headlights and their features on the 2013s, I believe Lexus HQ created a lot of problems for both their dealerships AND customers because of not doing a better job keeping their systems and feature descriptions in-sync. Your transaction, unfortunately, is another example of someone caught by those problems -- and I bet, so was your dealer themselves.
Something to think about: If I were being a hard-nosed guy doing negotiation (and I did multi-million $ contract negotiation for a large IT company for many years), the first question I'd ask you is why you didn't notice and bring this to my attention before now if this option was so important to you. You should have a real crisp answer ready. If you asked me for a point blank "do you have a case?", I'd base an awful lot of my initial response on how you reply to that.
The reality is, the wide view monitor is gone from the 2013. You need to also think about what you want Lexus to do to make it right -- if that is possible. As every day goes by and you put more miles on your truck, you're going to have a harder time with what the dealer can do to help you. It would be a whole lot different if you had brought this to their attention the day after you purchased it, I suspect. By now, you likely won't find a NEW 2012 with the option, and it cannot be put onto the 2013 -- the service manuals I went through a few months back (see another thread I created here on CL on technical differences of 2012-13) specifically indicate it is GONE -- not just the physical mirrors but the subsystems that connect it to the rest of the truck. If there are any other features in the ultra premium package you want or care about, vs the next lower package you have in Canada and you really desire (sorry, I'm not familiar with them), I believe your case will be less than if you only bought ultra premium because of the single wide view monitor option. I suspect the best the dealer could do is maybe give you some kind of credit, free service or something, but who knows. The vehicle cost to the dealers and therefore price quoted to you on the 2013s were all done without the wide view monitor being included, so any financial recourse now is likely out of the dealer's pocket as a goodwill gesture. You need to think it out what you really want, then what you'd be OK with -- just as in any negotiation. I'd quickly at least pick up the phone and make an appt with your salesman saying you need to discuss a couple things with him about your car, and get over there as soon as you can.
Something to think about: If I were being a hard-nosed guy doing negotiation (and I did multi-million $ contract negotiation for a large IT company for many years), the first question I'd ask you is why you didn't notice and bring this to my attention before now if this option was so important to you. You should have a real crisp answer ready.
If you asked me for a point blank "do you have a case?", I'd base an awful lot of my initial response on how you reply to that.The reality is, the wide view monitor is gone from the 2013. You need to also think about what you want Lexus to do to make it right -- if that is possible. As every day goes by and you put more miles on your truck, you're going to have a harder time with what the dealer can do to help you. It would be a whole lot different if you had brought this to their attention the day after you purchased it, I suspect. By now, you likely won't find a NEW 2012 with the option, and it cannot be put onto the 2013 -- the service manuals I went through a few months back (see another thread I created here on CL on technical differences of 2012-13) specifically indicate it is GONE -- not just the physical mirrors but the subsystems that connect it to the rest of the truck. If there are any other features in the ultra premium package you want or care about, vs the next lower package you have in Canada and you really desire (sorry, I'm not familiar with them), I believe your case will be less than if you only bought ultra premium because of the single wide view monitor option. I suspect the best the dealer could do is maybe give you some kind of credit, free service or something, but who knows. The vehicle cost to the dealers and therefore price quoted to you on the 2013s were all done without the wide view monitor being included, so any financial recourse now is likely out of the dealer's pocket as a goodwill gesture. You need to think it out what you really want, then what you'd be OK with -- just as in any negotiation. I'd quickly at least pick up the phone and make an appt with your salesman saying you need to discuss a couple things with him about your car, and get over there as soon as you can.
I have done most of the advice you give here, such as contacting my dealership, etc. The car is less than 1 week old with less than 200 kilometers in it, so I think it is within the reasonable time that I am bringing this to their attention. I must hasten to add that the package price of Ultra Premium is $14,500 and includes the wide-view side mirror monitor, among other features and options, so the price quoted included the wide-view side mirror monitor.
I really appreciate your thoughts/advise. Thanks.
Last edited by sarhento; 08-20-12 at 08:33 AM. Reason: Add info
08-20-12, 09:48 AM
#13
Moderator
I'll bow out of this after one final thought... I get you believe the price of Ultra Premium includes the subject option, however, that is the real problem here. The configurator tool you (and the salesman) used showed a retail price with a bunch of descriptive items, but that in no way is how the real price to you is calculated -- it does not take into actual account dealer cost, incentives, etc -- and those costs to them are all based on only what is delivered on the physical vehicle from Lexus HQ, not what may be described in the marketing configuration tool.
I stand by my belief that the issue you have with the wide view monitor is no different than the hours of research and back-and-forth with others I did on HID and LED AFS earlier this year... The reality of that is AFS was discontinued and is not available on the 2013s, but it showed it was available in only the Lexus.com "build it" config tool here in the US that you also used -- not in the brochures, not in the dealer ordering tool, not in the service manuals, not on the vehicle stickers ...and importantly to this discussion, in our case here in the US with the Luxury Package where AFS was included in the 2012's with the HID or LED Headlights, the retail price of that package actually went down year-to-year -- most of us (including my dealer) believe because the cost/price of AFS is no longer included. Supporting that, the retail price of the standalone option for HID and LED headlights also went down in 2013 by the same amount (because they no longer have AFS either). I can't further that logic into the Canadian model and your wide view monitor as I don't have the price points and such, but I believe your Lexus dealership will say that the price they quoted you for the Ultra Premium Package on the 2013 is what it is, and never really included the Side View Monitor as it was discontinued in all 2013s, even though the description of it showed up in error on one of the tools you and the salesman used to look up RETAIL price... The option is not in the manuals, brochures, etc. I really do believe that is the tact they'll take. I would too, then I'd consider what you "want" and see if I could reasonably accomodate you because of the Lexus error in their marketing tool. I would not however believe (if I were the dealer), for example, I should refund you the price of the 2012 Side View Monitor System, since it was never really baked into the price of the 2013 Ultra Premium Package in the first place.
That may not make sense, and sorry if I don't. I'm not trying to defend Lexus, and certainly can't represent them or you -- and I could be all washed up in what I suspect they'll do. I still believe in large part, the result will depend how you deal with them and how reasonable you are. In any case, I'll stop trying to help any more, and just wish you the best in your pursuit. Good luck with whatever you are after!
I stand by my belief that the issue you have with the wide view monitor is no different than the hours of research and back-and-forth with others I did on HID and LED AFS earlier this year... The reality of that is AFS was discontinued and is not available on the 2013s, but it showed it was available in only the Lexus.com "build it" config tool here in the US that you also used -- not in the brochures, not in the dealer ordering tool, not in the service manuals, not on the vehicle stickers ...and importantly to this discussion, in our case here in the US with the Luxury Package where AFS was included in the 2012's with the HID or LED Headlights, the retail price of that package actually went down year-to-year -- most of us (including my dealer) believe because the cost/price of AFS is no longer included. Supporting that, the retail price of the standalone option for HID and LED headlights also went down in 2013 by the same amount (because they no longer have AFS either). I can't further that logic into the Canadian model and your wide view monitor as I don't have the price points and such, but I believe your Lexus dealership will say that the price they quoted you for the Ultra Premium Package on the 2013 is what it is, and never really included the Side View Monitor as it was discontinued in all 2013s, even though the description of it showed up in error on one of the tools you and the salesman used to look up RETAIL price... The option is not in the manuals, brochures, etc. I really do believe that is the tact they'll take. I would too, then I'd consider what you "want" and see if I could reasonably accomodate you because of the Lexus error in their marketing tool. I would not however believe (if I were the dealer), for example, I should refund you the price of the 2012 Side View Monitor System, since it was never really baked into the price of the 2013 Ultra Premium Package in the first place.
That may not make sense, and sorry if I don't. I'm not trying to defend Lexus, and certainly can't represent them or you -- and I could be all washed up in what I suspect they'll do. I still believe in large part, the result will depend how you deal with them and how reasonable you are. In any case, I'll stop trying to help any more, and just wish you the best in your pursuit. Good luck with whatever you are after!
08-20-12, 10:37 AM
#14
I have the ultra premium II package and do have it. It is a camera under the passenger mirror that helps you see the curb or beside you when you are in reverse or slow speed. You have to activate it from the Nav screen If I recall correctly.
Make sure you have the camera in the mirror.
Make sure you have the camera in the mirror.
08-20-12, 12:13 PM
#15
Driver
Thread Starter
I have the ultra premium II package and do have it. It is a camera under the passenger mirror that helps you see the curb or beside you when you are in reverse or slow speed. You have to activate it from the Nav screen If I recall correctly.
Make sure you have the camera in the mirror.
Make sure you have the camera in the mirror.
I notice that you have a 2012 model. I was just told that this has been discontinued in 2013. What upsets me is the fact that I was not told during the negotiation/transaction deal. I was made to believe that everything in the package were there. That particular feature is one of the reasons why I went for the Ultra Premium package only to be disappointed.