krypttic

iTrader: (1)

I drove a 2013 RX 350 and a 450 and found the 350 to be much smoother and more powerful than the 450 is. Is this typical? I thought the hybrid had more horsepower and didn't expect lackluster performance. I'm pretty sure I had ECO mode turned off and certainly wasn't in EV mode.

I was going to spend the extra money to go for the hybrid, but not if this is typical. Has anyone driven both that can comment?

Thanks.

markrivers

Can you be more specific with how you compared the two.
What steps have you done? 0-60? Driving in a winding road? Etc.

The 450h has more horsepower and torque than the 350.
On a red light, the 450h will be faster than the 350 coming from a full stop.

I have a 350 by the way.

Cruiter

The 450 and 350 have identical motors but different trannys. Even though the electric motors give the 450 about 25 more total horsepower in a floor from stop the 350 will jump quicker to about 25 or 30mph due to the low 1st gear. After that all bets are off with the additional torque of the 450h and the CVT tranny. On the hwy in a passing situation at speed the 450h will always win. It's smoother with the 450, you won't feel it kick down, it will just 'GO' Riki-TIk .

DunWkg

This is one discussion I should avoid as what I'm going to say is probably against convention, but I think the 450 is a dog going off the line compared to the 350 and it shouldn't be. When I drive a 350 loaner, I have to adjust to the quickness from a stop. Maybe it's because I have an AWD 450 it feels like a dog. Granted when the ICE and those two electric motors kick in the 450 takes off. And yes, I drive it most of the time in normal mode, not ECO mode.

The 450 to me seems smoother, less bouncy than a 350. I also feel more comfortable driving it fast, perhaps a perception of being more stable.

krypttic

iTrader: (1)

Exactly. From a dead stop, the 450 felt slower than my 4-cylinder Honda Accord. It felt heavy and underpowered. The 350 is pretty quick off the line.

I almost bought a loaded 450 to replace my 350, but this was a deal-killer for me. I'm going to try an Acura instead and see how I like it.

BobBass

If you're referring to the new RDX I think you'll find it the best of the three regarding acceleration.

krypttic

iTrader: (1)

No, actually the MDX. I know there are pros and cons to each vehicle, but coming from an RX350, I just couldn't tolerate the sluggish response off the line.

MikeP

I'm not sure how much it contributes from a performance standpoint, but the RX450h has an Atkinson cycle engine, whereas the RX350 does not. Lexus recommends regular gas for the RX350, but premium for the 450h. In Lexus' RX brochure, it states a 0-60 time and quarter mile time of 7.7 sec. & 16.1 sec. for the 350 and 7.8 sec & 16.1 sec for the 450h (both FWD). Those are about as identical as you can get. There is a footnote by the horsepower number (295) for the 450h that reads "Ratings achieved using the required premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 91 or higher. If premium fuel is not used, performance will decrease."

In the brochure, I couldn't find the weight of either model and Lexus only lists the torque figure for the RX350 and not the 450h.

GoHuskers

I currently have both, a 350 and a 450h, both are AWD. The 350 are faster off the line and it ALWAYS jumps in 1st gear when you started off the line so this feels faster. The 450h has CVT so NO jumping off the line so it feels slower (*******). When speed is picking up at higher than 30 mph or so the 450h will feel MUCH faster than the 350 when you floor it.

Cruiter

Same engine, a little different combustion system for better economy. In producing more economy some initial torque 'is' lost but made up later with the electric motors. The following is from Wikipedia:

"While a modified Otto cycle engine using the Atkinson cycle provides good fuel economy, it is at the expense of a lower power-per-displacement as compared to a traditional four-stroke engine.[3] If demand for more power is intermittent, the power of the engine can be supplemented by an electric motor during times when more power is needed. This forms the basis of an Atkinson cycle-based hybrid electric drivetrain. These electric motors can be used independently of, or in combination with, the Atkinson cycle engine, to provide the most efficient means of producing the desired power. This drive train first entered production in late 1997 in the Japanese-market Toyota Prius.

At this writing, most production full hybrid-electric vehicles use Atkinson cycle engines:

Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid electric (four-wheel drive) with a compression ratio of 10.8:1
Ford Escape/Mercury Mariner/Mazda Tribute electric (front- and four-wheel drive) with a compression ratio of 12.4:1
Ford Fusion Hybrid/Mercury Milan Hybrid/Lincoln MKZ Hybrid electric (front-wheel drive) with a compression ratio of 12.3:1
Hyundai Sonata Hybrid (front-wheel drive)
Infiniti M35h Hybrid (rear-wheel drive)
Kia Optima Hybrid (front-wheel drive)
Lexus CT200h (front-wheel drive)
Lexus HS250h (front-wheel drive)
Lexus RX 450h hybrid electric (rear-wheel drive)
Mercedes ML450 Hybrid (four-wheel drive) electric
Mercedes S400 Blue Hybrid (rear-wheel drive) electric
Toyota Highlander Hybrid (2011 and newer)[4]
Toyota Prius hybrid electric (front-wheel drive) with a (purely geometric) compression ratio of 13.0:1
Toyota Camry Hybrid electric (front-wheel drive) with a compression ratio of 12.5:1
Lexus GS450h hybrid electric (Rear-Wheel drive) with a compression ratio of 13.0:1

svofan1

..I have a question, and please there is no intention of creating neither an argument or disparaging anyone for their decisions..ok?......I do love the 450h a lot because I think that it has "touches" that 350 does not have and in my opinion those little details really make the vehicle much better looking, but the difference in money is large and I wonder what will be the amount time needed to recover the extra money spent in the 450h (breaking point) based on the extra mileage per gallon of gas used.
Between 350 and 450 the 450h has the greater mileage of course and also that "breaking point" will be reached faster by those who drive a lot of miles in a shorter time, but aside from liking the 450h better, I ,as an average driver do not see any advantage in the mileage related to the price paid.

Loving cars is like love in general, when in love one sees what one wants to see!!!!

Cruiter

There isn't 'one' answer that fits every situation, you have to gauge for yourself. However the RX 450h is considered a different model, it has more horsepower, gets better fuel efficiency, has more features, and all other things being equal will bring back a higher percentage of original cost in resale. Those are verifiable facts. But you still have do decide for yourself, spending 'your' money isn't something you should ask others to help you do. I really do like your final quote "Loving cars is like love in general, when in love one sees what one wants to see!!!!". That sort of say's it all.

Paul B

My next RX will be the hybrid. Do I plan on breaking even on the extra $6K or so outlay for the 450h version. Nope. Not in my case. It's technically more interesting to me and I'm a sucker for technology and at an emotional level I am drawn to it. If I had to justify it based on hard facts, I wouldn't buy it. I do hope that Lexus reduces the premium for the h version over time. By doing so they would greatly expand their sales of it.

mklemovitc

2013 RX450h:
2013 RX350:
Source - product information pages at pressroom.toyota.com

svofan1

...you are correct Jim, in my case I wish I had stretch my wallet a bit more...but if I did my bride of 45 years would have ended the honeymoon...since I traded in an MDX 2011 with only 13k miles...what can I say I like to live dangerously, but I also have limits...lol.....not a gluton for punishment, besides I hate to sleep in the sofa.....lol