Did you make the right choice according to JD?
04-13-12, 08:51 PM
#16
That's what I have always have thought, getting the hybrid doesn't really save money, especially in replacing the parts, down the road. I always thought that choosing hybrid is more for the environment rather than a money saver.
04-14-12, 12:15 AM
#17
The numbers in the JD Powers chart above are not even close to correct. It is complete garbage; not even worth discussing.
For those doubting the resale value of hybrids, I'd like to share something that happened in my family recently. My brother had a 2010 Prius. It was a Level II version and had a sticker of something like $23,500. His new Prius Plug-in is arriving in a few days and so last weekend he sold the car to my daughter for $16,000 (it had about 53,000 miles on it). We had agreed on that price about six weeks ago based on a KBB value for the car of $16,700. After the sale last weekend, we checked the price of the car again just for fun. It had gone up to $19,780 in six weeks ... no doubt because of the increase in gas in recent months. Pretty amazing. This is a good example of why many of us purchased higher mileage hybrids as a hedge against higher gas prices. Prius batteries can be found for $1,800. My brother (experienced hybrid driver) was getting 62 MPG in the car, my daughter after her first 5 days is getting 56 (it will trend up as she gets a feel for the car). Owing a hybrid like the Prius is definitely about saving money. It is an extremely economical car to own and operate.
When comparing the 350 to the 450h, the first thing you need to realize is that they are two separate vehicles. You are not strictly purchasing additional gas mileage. Here in N. CA, I estimated that breakeven on gas was about 60,000 miles (high gas prices, compared to the nation). But, a few factors could bring that down further. One thing is the additional equipment on the hybrid including the CVT, vehicle dynamics standard, showing the actual tire pressure in each tire on the information display and a few other enhancements on the car that add value. Additionally, the 450h never has to get a smog check in CA. Besides saving me about $75 every other year, I don't have to take the time to get this done (certainly worth a couple of hundred dollars in inconvenience). I also think that the brakes will last much longer and that the pads (and possibly rotors) on the 350 will have to be replaced more frequently. The hybrid components have an 8 year warranty (or is it 10 years in CA, I never got that straight). If you believe in the likely increased resale value of the car (which I do), then you may be able to make a case for breakeven (over the 350) in the 12,000 to 36,000 mile range. Run your own numbers and form your own conclusions, but owning a car like a 450h is not strictly about penny pinching.
To answer the OP question: I think buying the 450h was a good idea. My view of the world is that we live on a planet where we are consuming resources at a rate at which we would need 1.5 planets to keep up the pace; I expect regular disruptions in the future of commodities like gas. High prices or worst won't surprise me.
For those doubting the resale value of hybrids, I'd like to share something that happened in my family recently. My brother had a 2010 Prius. It was a Level II version and had a sticker of something like $23,500. His new Prius Plug-in is arriving in a few days and so last weekend he sold the car to my daughter for $16,000 (it had about 53,000 miles on it). We had agreed on that price about six weeks ago based on a KBB value for the car of $16,700. After the sale last weekend, we checked the price of the car again just for fun. It had gone up to $19,780 in six weeks ... no doubt because of the increase in gas in recent months. Pretty amazing. This is a good example of why many of us purchased higher mileage hybrids as a hedge against higher gas prices. Prius batteries can be found for $1,800. My brother (experienced hybrid driver) was getting 62 MPG in the car, my daughter after her first 5 days is getting 56 (it will trend up as she gets a feel for the car). Owing a hybrid like the Prius is definitely about saving money. It is an extremely economical car to own and operate.
When comparing the 350 to the 450h, the first thing you need to realize is that they are two separate vehicles. You are not strictly purchasing additional gas mileage. Here in N. CA, I estimated that breakeven on gas was about 60,000 miles (high gas prices, compared to the nation). But, a few factors could bring that down further. One thing is the additional equipment on the hybrid including the CVT, vehicle dynamics standard, showing the actual tire pressure in each tire on the information display and a few other enhancements on the car that add value. Additionally, the 450h never has to get a smog check in CA. Besides saving me about $75 every other year, I don't have to take the time to get this done (certainly worth a couple of hundred dollars in inconvenience). I also think that the brakes will last much longer and that the pads (and possibly rotors) on the 350 will have to be replaced more frequently. The hybrid components have an 8 year warranty (or is it 10 years in CA, I never got that straight). If you believe in the likely increased resale value of the car (which I do), then you may be able to make a case for breakeven (over the 350) in the 12,000 to 36,000 mile range. Run your own numbers and form your own conclusions, but owning a car like a 450h is not strictly about penny pinching.
To answer the OP question: I think buying the 450h was a good idea. My view of the world is that we live on a planet where we are consuming resources at a rate at which we would need 1.5 planets to keep up the pace; I expect regular disruptions in the future of commodities like gas. High prices or worst won't surprise me.
Last edited by UCSB; 04-14-12 at 12:50 AM.
04-14-12, 05:34 AM
#18
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Whether or not a H is worth the extra money hasn't been determined for the most part.
It all depends on whether gas will remain around 4.50 or will they eventually fall to around 3.50 or so a gallon.
The price of oil is traded on the stock market, and it has many factors controlling it, such as the world economy, speculators, and who is in the White House.
Also depends on how efficient a gas powered car could eventually become in 6 years vs the current H model.
For example IMO, I was worried about a hybrid, bc I am worried that in 5 years or so, todays H resale value will be hurt bc gas powered RX will be avg 30+ miles per a gallon as well, and the new hybrid will be getting around 40+ miles a gallon
For me I rather the Gas powered.
- I only put 7k miles a year on my RX
- I do all my own work on the car, and I am not skilled enough to do anything with a hybrid
- I don't think gas can maintain 5 dollars. The economy will be crushed and the oil market will re-correct much like it did a few years ago.
- I don't know when I will trade in my vehicle and I don't want the resale value to be determined by something as volatile as oil prices that are traded on the stock market
- I really think that in 5 or so years todays hybrid model resale will take a huge hit when gas powered rx are getting 30+ miles a gallon, and hyrids are getting 40+ miles a gallon
It all depends on whether gas will remain around 4.50 or will they eventually fall to around 3.50 or so a gallon.
The price of oil is traded on the stock market, and it has many factors controlling it, such as the world economy, speculators, and who is in the White House.
Also depends on how efficient a gas powered car could eventually become in 6 years vs the current H model.
For example IMO, I was worried about a hybrid, bc I am worried that in 5 years or so, todays H resale value will be hurt bc gas powered RX will be avg 30+ miles per a gallon as well, and the new hybrid will be getting around 40+ miles a gallon
For me I rather the Gas powered.
- I only put 7k miles a year on my RX
- I do all my own work on the car, and I am not skilled enough to do anything with a hybrid
- I don't think gas can maintain 5 dollars. The economy will be crushed and the oil market will re-correct much like it did a few years ago.
- I don't know when I will trade in my vehicle and I don't want the resale value to be determined by something as volatile as oil prices that are traded on the stock market
- I really think that in 5 or so years todays hybrid model resale will take a huge hit when gas powered rx are getting 30+ miles a gallon, and hyrids are getting 40+ miles a gallon
Last edited by gqscholar; 04-14-12 at 05:42 AM.
04-14-12, 05:52 AM
#19
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Depends on the gas prices and the gas milage the 2016 RX's are getting
IMO I really think gas powered RX's will be getting 30+ mpgs on avg and Hybrids will be getting around 40+ mpgs in 4-5 years.
That alone will hurt the current hybrid resale value in 4-5 years.
04-14-12, 07:35 AM
#20
As of right now, who knows what the resale alue will be in 4 or so years.
Depends on the gas prices and the gas milage the 2016 RX's are getting
IMO I really think gas powered RX's will be getting 30+ mpgs on avg and Hybrids will be getting around 40+ mpgs in 4-5 years.
That alone will hurt the current hybrid resale value in 4-5 years.
Depends on the gas prices and the gas milage the 2016 RX's are getting
IMO I really think gas powered RX's will be getting 30+ mpgs on avg and Hybrids will be getting around 40+ mpgs in 4-5 years.
That alone will hurt the current hybrid resale value in 4-5 years.
04-14-12, 09:17 AM
#21
You also have to figure out where you drive most. If its mostly in the city with stop and go traffic then the Hybrid milage becomes even more impressive. I am not idling the car at long delays, at it shuts off. Yes you can do that but then you are starting it again putting more wear on the starter. I can powerglide the 200' on the battery to the next stop and wait, and not use any gas. When you are in stopped in traffic you are getting ZERO miles per gallon.
That being said, the history of the Prius shows that people not only are willing to buy a Hybid after the warranty is over but they are a rather hot commodity. On autotrader 7 year olds Prius' are still selling for around 10K. with 100000 miles.
If gas milage increases down the road to the 35mpg level the current RX will drop in value as fast or faster than the 450h so that argument it really is a moot point.
That being said, the history of the Prius shows that people not only are willing to buy a Hybid after the warranty is over but they are a rather hot commodity. On autotrader 7 year olds Prius' are still selling for around 10K. with 100000 miles.
If gas milage increases down the road to the 35mpg level the current RX will drop in value as fast or faster than the 450h so that argument it really is a moot point.
Last edited by InRBigness; 04-14-12 at 09:38 AM.
04-14-12, 09:46 AM
#23
Lexus Test Driver
i have a 2011 Prius IV which is my daily driver here in LA where the traffic gets so bad..
the other cars/SUVs (Range Rover and RX 350) are for weekend trips and a drive with family and dogs.
lastly, the Challenger SRT8..well.. that's for my "me" time.
i have friends with RX 450h and Tesla roadsters.. and the reason they bought these hybrid/electric vehicles is for the environmental factor...not the savings on the pump argument.
Right now the most practical hybrid car, (if your main concern is mpgs and value for your money) is the Toyota Prius C.
the other cars/SUVs (Range Rover and RX 350) are for weekend trips and a drive with family and dogs.
lastly, the Challenger SRT8..well.. that's for my "me" time.
i have friends with RX 450h and Tesla roadsters.. and the reason they bought these hybrid/electric vehicles is for the environmental factor...not the savings on the pump argument.
Right now the most practical hybrid car, (if your main concern is mpgs and value for your money) is the Toyota Prius C.
04-14-12, 01:00 PM
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If those new model vehicles hit those MPG figures, the resale value of both the 450h and 350 will be hurt by resale value, but relative to each other (same year model), the 450h should not be losing out in value relative to the 350. Each person can compute their break-even point in owning a 450h (my calculation was 80,000 miles) in addition to intrinsic values that are above and beyond a resale value or break-even calculation. After owning the 450h for 1.5 years, I am extremely happy with the choice made.
Imo most people wont be in the market for a used hybrid if gas falls to around 3 dollars.
I have nothing against hybrids. I love the technology. I decided against the hybrid bc i didnt want to pay around 6 k more in hopes that gas stays high so i can break even.
04-14-12, 03:33 PM
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^^ not trying to change your mind but for $6000 more (but really more like $5000) you are getting VDIM and laminated front door glass, individual tire pressure read outs, fog light chrome trim. I figure all of that is about $800 dollars worth of extra.
Then there are the gas savings. Then there is no water pump to change after 100,000 miles. also brake pad wear is significantly less so that means no brake pads to change.
Then since you are paying 6000 more for the car, the resale value of the car should be proportionately more.
Then there are the gas savings. Then there is no water pump to change after 100,000 miles. also brake pad wear is significantly less so that means no brake pads to change.
Then since you are paying 6000 more for the car, the resale value of the car should be proportionately more.
04-14-12, 03:39 PM
#27
04-14-12, 05:50 PM
#28
Driver School Candidate
Anyone that thinks gas prices are going to stop their LONG TERM upward trend is engaging in wishful thinking.
The main factors in whether the hybrid will pay for itself are your driving habits and the length of time you are going to own the car.
If your right foot has the hybrid gene and you are going to drive the car 10+years, the math works. Sure there is always the risk that the batteries die in month 97, but even if they did, replace them and save 9+ mpg for another 8 years when gas is over $6.50 a gallon (5% increase a year gets you there)
If you are a 4 - 6 year car owner you come close on gas savings, and relative resale would put you over the top. Not as much a slam dunk, but still a pretty solid deal.
And let's not forget that some of the price differential goes toward features.
The main factors in whether the hybrid will pay for itself are your driving habits and the length of time you are going to own the car.
If your right foot has the hybrid gene and you are going to drive the car 10+years, the math works. Sure there is always the risk that the batteries die in month 97, but even if they did, replace them and save 9+ mpg for another 8 years when gas is over $6.50 a gallon (5% increase a year gets you there)
If you are a 4 - 6 year car owner you come close on gas savings, and relative resale would put you over the top. Not as much a slam dunk, but still a pretty solid deal.
And let's not forget that some of the price differential goes toward features.
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