MisterG

Talking with the Wife last night and using preliminary numbers that we found:

Assuming $25,000 Down Payment
Location: Los Angeles Area
--------------------------------------------------
RX350 - 18mpg | Navi, Rear Camera & Heated Seats - Main Features Req'd
Price: $43,000
Price after Tax: $46,548
APR: 1.9%
Monthly: $392 - includes taxes
Total Payments: 23,520
Gas Costs based on $4/gal & 12,000/year: $2,667
Gas Costs based on $4/gal & 15,000/year: $3,333

Total Payments + Total Gas over 5 years = $36,885
--------------------------------------------------
RX450h - 32mpg | Navi, Rear Camera & Heated Seats - Main Features Req'd
Price - $49,000
Price after Tax - $53,042
APR: 2.99 <=bank
Monthly: $503 - includes taxes
60 Payments: 30,180
Gas Costs based on $4/gal & 12,000/year: $1,500
Gas Costs based on $4/gal & 15,000/year: $1,875

Total Payments + Total Gas over 5 years = $37,920
--------------------------------------------------

At 12,000 Miles per Year: RX450h Total Costs - RS350 Total Costs = $37,680 - $36,885 = $795 savings with RX350
At 15,000 Miles per Year: RX450h Total Costs - RS350 Total Costs = $39,555 - $40,185 = $630 savings with RX450h
--------------------------------------------------

So yes, there is a upfront premium you pay for the hybrid, but crunching the numbers over time show that the hybrid is actually the smarter decision in the long run. The factors that make this a point of discussion is to pay the premium now or to spread out the costs over time. I know everyone's situation is different with job security, income projections or what not. Just FYI, I'm favoring the Hybrid option right now due to the fact that with an newborn coming soon, we'll be taking plenty of family trips to reach that 15,000 mileage.

Now the question is:
- Do these numbers look right?
- Are those accurate prices on what we can get for the 350 and 450h? If not, what do you think we can get?
- Can anyone refer us to a salesperson/dealer who we can work out a fair deal with in the Los Angeles Area?

UCSB

I have the 450h FWD here in northern California. I think you should use a 30MPG for the FWD hybrid in your calculations. That is more realistic and reflects the EPA combined mileage for the car. If you want to drive the car and not be thinking about your mileage, use 29MPG. I can average 30MPG (or better), but the longer I own the car I am tending to just drive it normally. Pluses for the hybrid (you might want to check these): exempt from smog checks in CA, regenerative braking means your brakes will last much longer. Negatives: complex car, unknown maintenance requirements in future.

I do think that it might have better resale. But, it is just as possible that MPG will increase with time and 30MPG will not be anything special.

After owning the RX for the past year, I feel it is a lot of money and just buying a real luxury car might be a better strategy. If you absolutely need an SUV then it is good. In my family, we find that our Subaru Outback is as nice a car (actually preferred) for family trips and can easily get 32MPG on the freeway. I only paid $28,400 (sticker $31,600) for it plus T&L.

I'm not sure what you mean by price, but the FWD hybrid should have a sticker closer to $53,700 with the standard (required) options. I don't know how much discounting is currently being offered on the 450h. You will want to ask your dealer because there was some discussion here in the forum that they were in short supply.

MisterG

Thanks Guys! Very helpful indeed! I was just using the numbers given by lexus with the 32 and 18 mpg . . i'm assuming if i drop 32 to 30, then i would have to drop 18 to 16, huh?

UCSB - did the gas numbers make you feel better about your projected total costs though?

UCSB

The FWD RX is rated 32 city, 28 highway for a combined 30. The normal FWD RX is 18 city, 24 highway, 21 combined. So you might want to consider using 21 for normal and 30 for hybrid. There is a gas mileage thread that will give you a better idea of what people are actually achieving. But, in CA conditions 30 for careful driving is good; 29 for just driving normally is good on the FWD hybrid. Just subract 2MPG if you go with the AWD.

Gas mileage does make me feel better about the day-to-day ownership experience. I like the hedge against gas prices going up ... which I think they will. Hybrids really pay off for high mileage drivers. My brother is a high mileage driver and owns a Prius. It is a perfect match for him. Since I am retired, I am not a high mileage driver and don't expect the gas saving to off-set the higher costs of the car in any kind of reasonable time frame. Your situation is different and the car's gas mileage will help you more.

DunWkg

Look this over:

http://autos.yahoo.com/lexus/

wyau01

RX450 is a safer car. VDIM is standard on a 450, but it's an option on a 350.
VDIM saved my @$$ today, when some idiot ran the stop sign.

kitlz

^Pre-collision would have worked better in that situation.

There is one factor not mentioned like the maintenance issue. Service costs less on the hybrid with fewer things to break down. I'm not saying that should be the deciding factor, just another thing to consider in the equation.

happy1977

Also keep in mine, if you're planning of keeping the vehicle at least 10 years, maintenance aint gonna be cheap if the hybrid has problems. Less electronics, less cost for maintenance.

As for gas, that depends on how you drive.

RXSF

the 350 will not get 21 combined. Chances are if you do a lot of city driving, you will see something around 15. On the other side, you cant be sure that you are going to get 30 in the 450h because many people need to adjust their driving habits to get that type of mileage. I am constantly looking at the energy monitor on the nav screen and the energy meter in the instrument panel to maximize mpg. its more of a game to me.

As other have said, mpg is not the only deciding factor. Anita mentioned lower maintenance cost and this would be in less wear on brake pads and no timing belt to change. Then again, the cost of a new battery would probably be more than those things. I would say if you want to be eco-conscious and want to spread the word of being more environmentally aware, then buy the hybrid. The other pluses are quieter ride (dual pane laminated glass for the front windows), fog light chrome trim, and those awesome LED headlights (option)

markrivers

I own a 2011 Lexus RX 350 and a 2011 Toyota Prius Four, among other things.

Simple advice. Go for the hybrid. You'll be ONE more person who's doing something about America's addiction to fossil fuel.
For me and the wife, it was a no brainer, do you want your money to go to the car ( which you own) or to Chevron, BP,Shell etc.

And when we were shopping for the RX, there was a shortage of the exterior/interior combination for the 450. And we simply couldn't wait.

kitlz

You're pushing the price back up with the LED headlights, RXSF

I didn't choose the 450h over the 350 based on gas mileage alone. Part of it was to be more environmentally friendly like RXSF mentioned. I do mostly city driving. The engine turns off while I'm sitting at a light or in traffic. Mileage goes up during a slow crawl. I can turn eco mode on or off depending on how I want to drive. The A/C is electric. And in addition to less brake wear is less brake dust. The only downside I found was 450h doesn't warm up quickly in the winter because the engine keeps turning off. Fortunately I have heated seats.

There are a few options limited to the 450h such as VDIM and yes, those sexy LED headlights. As far as the hybrid battery, it is covered for 8 years/100K miles. An extended warranty can be purchased to cover the rest.

Bottom line, I wouldn't make the decision based on money or gas mileage alone. It goes beyond that.

LexRexBlue

I waited 14 months for the first RX400h (awd) and couldn't wait. But I found the car quirky to drive. Yes I saved money on gas, but after driving the 350 awd I knew that I really wanted to get it. Just to be sure I drove the 450h before making my purchase. For me, it wasn't the $. I don't drive that much to save money and didn't drive the "right" roads to get the great mileage. A year later I have no regrets and still love my 350 awd. Make sure your wife really drives both cars.

MisterG

Update - We just got the car from Longo Lexus - Fully Loaded RX 450h FWD with all the stuff the wife wanted - Navi, Rear Camera, Heated Seats & a lot more

Final Price Negotiated $48,800
OTD Price after all the taxes and fees - $53,565.

Ya it's the wife's car, but I'm already thinking of what to do with it - i.e. using the navi screen to play movies?

RXSF

Congrats!

movies? hope you got the mark levinson audio then, or you'll have to find a aftermarket solution.

markrivers

^ Congratulations on your new Car..
so what was the color combination exterior/interior?
did you get the Mark Levinson sounds? how about the Heads Up Display?
$48,800 is a sweet price.