Sales case that should not happen
09-10-09, 08:33 PM
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Sales case that should not happen
On September 8th there was an article in Pittsburgh Post-Cazette about using internet for car purchasing. It is time-consuming to compare different cars and models and I assume that most people want to get offers from several dealers to get the best price and deal, once the decision about the car and the model is made. It should be worth the effort and I want to share my own experience, which happened this week. I am a 39 years old male who moved from Scandinavia to Pittsburgh one month ago.
Internet is a very useful tool in making comparisons and contacting dealers to quote the best price as described in Tuesday’s article. That is exactly what I have been doing. I made my purchasing decision about the car and model already in August before we moved to Pittsburgh. At the time I made contact with a local car dealer in Pittsburgh via internet, which is selling luxury vehicles. Lexus has been fortunate to be the #1 selling luxury vehicles in America for nine consecutive years. Also the local Lexus dealer has been awarded the “Elite of Lexus Award” 12 times, thus I thought I’m dealing with a reputable company.
Using the net I made my initial purchasing inquiry but I only got a reply from an internet manager asking that I visit their showroom. In the meanwhile I also received e-mails from the general sales manager and general manager. It was very confusing because I didn’t know with whom I should actually communicate. I replied to the general manager and made my inquiry again but did not get any answer. Although I finally got an offer from the internet manager, I gave up because I got a feeling that I was not listened to and that I was not being taken seriously.
Since our arrival in Pittsburgh I have been sent price quotes from several Lexus dealers in Pennsylvania. On 3rd September I decided to visit a local Lexus dealer with a friend of mine despite the negative experience with the incumbent internet sales manager. I met a pleasant enough salesman and he made me a customer proposal on paper for the car I was looking at. Later the same day I wrote this salesman an e-mail to make my own counter-offer since I wish to make a cash purchase. Salesman asked me to talk directly with the general sales manager for any more discount.
I called this sales manager and the receptionist forwarded my message calling back to him but he did not call me back. Instead I got a phone call from this receptionist saying the sales manager will not be in the office the next day. I wrote an e-mail to this sales manager on 4th September, to which I had no reply. However, I got a response from my salesman day after saying that the sales manager received my offer but is not prepare to negotiate about it. I called the salesman on 7th September and agreed on test driving two cars.
I got a quote from one another dealer in Pennsylvania, which was a bit better than that given by the local salesman. On 10th September I went to test drive these two cars with the same friend of mine. Everything went pretty well until the test drive was over and we went back to the office for negotiating and (I assumed) closing the deal. I told him that I had received a better offer than he had made during my first visit.
Quite surprisingly, the offer he gave me the week before was apparently no longer valid and his new offer was now $ 500.00 less. First he tried to lie to me that the first offer was made 2-3 weeks earlier. We were still negotiating about the same car, which remains unsold in the dealers’ yard. I showed him the offer he gave the prior week, but he ignored it by saying that I should have made my purchasing decision already during the first visit on 3rd September. Also he did not return the original (signed) customer proposal back to me before I asked after it. During the first visit salesman made no mention about a time limit on the offer and there was no due date in the original customer proposal. Salesman started to argue with me and my friend about the due date. He disregarded anything I tried to say. He tried to make me feel guilty about my quotes about I had asked of other dealers. He continued in an accusing fashion as to why I had requested a quote of another local Lexus dealer in Allegheny County, because they own that company as well and he had knowledge of this.
Sadly, I never had a chance to explain that the best discount is not always the best deal. Unfortunately I was not able to state that I am not willing to travel a few hundred miles to get the same car for a slight increase in discount.
I gave up and left because the salesman underestimated me. I was neither listened to nor paid respect. At the same time this car dealer claims to have achieved top rankings from their customers in both sales and service experience. I think for most of us the decision to buy a new car needs to be carefully estimated. Certainly I’m not ready to hand over about $ 50,000.00 at the same time as the written customer proposal is given. I want to take time and consider the best deal.
This Lexus dealer has spoiled for me and my friend current and future business in the way that they handled me. I’ll start my homework again and start looking at another car and dealer, which is interested in at least trying to meet my needs.
There are no words that I could use to explain my feelings. I have never met a deceitful, argumentative or attacking salesman before. I had thought that this kind of customer story could only be read in a book.
Sakke
Internet is a very useful tool in making comparisons and contacting dealers to quote the best price as described in Tuesday’s article. That is exactly what I have been doing. I made my purchasing decision about the car and model already in August before we moved to Pittsburgh. At the time I made contact with a local car dealer in Pittsburgh via internet, which is selling luxury vehicles. Lexus has been fortunate to be the #1 selling luxury vehicles in America for nine consecutive years. Also the local Lexus dealer has been awarded the “Elite of Lexus Award” 12 times, thus I thought I’m dealing with a reputable company.
Using the net I made my initial purchasing inquiry but I only got a reply from an internet manager asking that I visit their showroom. In the meanwhile I also received e-mails from the general sales manager and general manager. It was very confusing because I didn’t know with whom I should actually communicate. I replied to the general manager and made my inquiry again but did not get any answer. Although I finally got an offer from the internet manager, I gave up because I got a feeling that I was not listened to and that I was not being taken seriously.
Since our arrival in Pittsburgh I have been sent price quotes from several Lexus dealers in Pennsylvania. On 3rd September I decided to visit a local Lexus dealer with a friend of mine despite the negative experience with the incumbent internet sales manager. I met a pleasant enough salesman and he made me a customer proposal on paper for the car I was looking at. Later the same day I wrote this salesman an e-mail to make my own counter-offer since I wish to make a cash purchase. Salesman asked me to talk directly with the general sales manager for any more discount.
I called this sales manager and the receptionist forwarded my message calling back to him but he did not call me back. Instead I got a phone call from this receptionist saying the sales manager will not be in the office the next day. I wrote an e-mail to this sales manager on 4th September, to which I had no reply. However, I got a response from my salesman day after saying that the sales manager received my offer but is not prepare to negotiate about it. I called the salesman on 7th September and agreed on test driving two cars.
I got a quote from one another dealer in Pennsylvania, which was a bit better than that given by the local salesman. On 10th September I went to test drive these two cars with the same friend of mine. Everything went pretty well until the test drive was over and we went back to the office for negotiating and (I assumed) closing the deal. I told him that I had received a better offer than he had made during my first visit.
Quite surprisingly, the offer he gave me the week before was apparently no longer valid and his new offer was now $ 500.00 less. First he tried to lie to me that the first offer was made 2-3 weeks earlier. We were still negotiating about the same car, which remains unsold in the dealers’ yard. I showed him the offer he gave the prior week, but he ignored it by saying that I should have made my purchasing decision already during the first visit on 3rd September. Also he did not return the original (signed) customer proposal back to me before I asked after it. During the first visit salesman made no mention about a time limit on the offer and there was no due date in the original customer proposal. Salesman started to argue with me and my friend about the due date. He disregarded anything I tried to say. He tried to make me feel guilty about my quotes about I had asked of other dealers. He continued in an accusing fashion as to why I had requested a quote of another local Lexus dealer in Allegheny County, because they own that company as well and he had knowledge of this.
Sadly, I never had a chance to explain that the best discount is not always the best deal. Unfortunately I was not able to state that I am not willing to travel a few hundred miles to get the same car for a slight increase in discount.
I gave up and left because the salesman underestimated me. I was neither listened to nor paid respect. At the same time this car dealer claims to have achieved top rankings from their customers in both sales and service experience. I think for most of us the decision to buy a new car needs to be carefully estimated. Certainly I’m not ready to hand over about $ 50,000.00 at the same time as the written customer proposal is given. I want to take time and consider the best deal.
This Lexus dealer has spoiled for me and my friend current and future business in the way that they handled me. I’ll start my homework again and start looking at another car and dealer, which is interested in at least trying to meet my needs.
There are no words that I could use to explain my feelings. I have never met a deceitful, argumentative or attacking salesman before. I had thought that this kind of customer story could only be read in a book.
Sakke
09-10-09, 09:57 PM
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Sorry to hear about your experience. Unfortunately, you will find business practices in this country place less value on civility, respect, or integrity than what you are used to. I lived in Europe for 15 years and hence feel I can compare.
I recently bought an RX by submitting a request for a quote through Edmunds. I expected to get 3 to 5 offers through email, pick the best one and off I go. Instead, few of the so-called internet managers were willing to make me an offer outright - they all wanted me to come in and negotiate. I think this internet thing worked well when relatively few buyers used it and dealers wanted their business as a novelty. Now that it is prevalent, they see it as a threat to their core dealership business - where they have the upper hand since they are more skilled at negotiation than most buyers - and hence treat internet customers the same way they treat those that come into the dealership.
I ended up buying from one of the dealerships I contacted through Edmunds. The sales guy was flaky and I experienced some of the same things you did - I would leave a message for the guy who would then ignore it for 3 days - but in the meantime I would get daily calls from another guy in the same dealership. He even stood me up for an appointment I made with him to come in and test drive the car. I thought about walking away for these reasons alone - but I have learned to be more pragmatic about these things. I am sure that if I tried 5 different dealerships, I would eventually find a guy I would like - I just don't have the time. Still - it is shocking that in this economic environment, a sales guy cannot be bothered to return the call of a potential customer.
Lastly, don't expect to deal with a better, more intelligent or more honest sales guy just because you are buying a $50K car. The utility of sales people to the dealer is in the volume they drive - not how smart or nice they are. The best sales guy I ever had was the guy that sold me my very first car, which cost about a third of the RX.
I recently bought an RX by submitting a request for a quote through Edmunds. I expected to get 3 to 5 offers through email, pick the best one and off I go. Instead, few of the so-called internet managers were willing to make me an offer outright - they all wanted me to come in and negotiate. I think this internet thing worked well when relatively few buyers used it and dealers wanted their business as a novelty. Now that it is prevalent, they see it as a threat to their core dealership business - where they have the upper hand since they are more skilled at negotiation than most buyers - and hence treat internet customers the same way they treat those that come into the dealership.
I ended up buying from one of the dealerships I contacted through Edmunds. The sales guy was flaky and I experienced some of the same things you did - I would leave a message for the guy who would then ignore it for 3 days - but in the meantime I would get daily calls from another guy in the same dealership. He even stood me up for an appointment I made with him to come in and test drive the car. I thought about walking away for these reasons alone - but I have learned to be more pragmatic about these things. I am sure that if I tried 5 different dealerships, I would eventually find a guy I would like - I just don't have the time. Still - it is shocking that in this economic environment, a sales guy cannot be bothered to return the call of a potential customer.
Lastly, don't expect to deal with a better, more intelligent or more honest sales guy just because you are buying a $50K car. The utility of sales people to the dealer is in the volume they drive - not how smart or nice they are. The best sales guy I ever had was the guy that sold me my very first car, which cost about a third of the RX.
09-11-09, 04:24 AM
#3
Hmmm, sorry about the bad experience. I had some similar, although nowhere near as hostile, experiences when trying to negotiate over the phone.
A few thoughts:
Internet - Yes, this is a fast tool and allows the buyer to cast a wide net. However, I do not believe that the car industry has figured out how to harness the power of the internet. For that matter, I don't think they've figured out how to create a positive sales experience when buying a car in general. I mean, what is invoice these days? There are so many ways that car dealers earn money (and to be fair, lose money) that it really depends on the savvy buyer to determine whether they are getting the best deal they can.
With that being said - if you put yourself in their shoes, the dealers get inundated with calls and emails from internet shoppers whose only value is the lowest price. I mean, let's face it - everyone thinks that all Lexus dealers will provide the same level of service regardless of where you actually purchase the vehicle so there is no real advantage to buying 'local' vs. traveling or shipping a car to save a few dollars. So the only way that a dealer can really differentiate itself is with the sales service and trying to create value in that relationship.
As you mention, and I noticed on quite a few Lexus occassions recently, I haven't found a single sales person that has 'differentiated' themselves from any other Lexus dealer enough to get me to pay more money on a car. It really is a shame.
So back to the point - why not come up with a price that is reasonable and offer it to everyone? Forget the haggling, bidding, shopping, etc. I know lots of folks will argue the theory here - and I'm not saying I truly believe this is the best way to go about things - but why should someone who sends an email deserve a better price than someone who walks in or calls on the phone? Really the whole process is just ridiculous.
If you were getting inundated all day long with people who were only shopping for the absolute lowest price on a car, you would probably figure out a way to convert them from inernet, faceless shoppers to potential customers right? Best way to do that? Get em into the dealership and 'wow' them with your service differentiation so that the absolute lowest price may not be as important as that ongoing relationship.
So yes, the internet sales manager is a scam. They really don't want to sell cars that way as they know anyone that is shopping will likely take their best offer and keep shopping it around until someone is willing to beat it by $100. Whoever is the last dealership called before some special financing expires or inventory drops usually gets the sale. So all of the 'internet sales managers' (who I still believe is just a rotating list of the regular sales people but whatever) are finding that it's not even worth wasting their time replying to internet inquiries because it's very difficult to actually get those sales. For that I can't necessarily blame them - but the better approach is to do something novel - offer your best price and financing terms up front. Just be honest and say "This is what we need to sell the car for" and then describe why there is value in buying from them.
I think that most people buying a Lexus these days will actually value that approach and do, typically, want to feel that they are working with a dealership that will be there to provide the 'Lexus Experience'.
I know I could have probably paid a bit less for my RX but I really didn't have to time to shop and I spoke directly with the sales manager at our dealership that we've used before. He gave me a fair deal up front and I was happy enough with that. To be honest - I really didn't expect his first price to be as low as it was. I had been researching a few places and he really gave a great price in comparison so I didn't even have to negotiate (too much
).
So yes, internet shopping is frutstrating but at some point, as the OP mentions, the absolute lowest sale price shouldn't be the only consideration IF you value some other components of the Lexus experience. Now it's up to the dealerships and Lexus to get that 'Lexus Experience' back into practice. I was pretty disappointed with the salespeople I dealt with at a few dealerships - lack of product knowledge and I felt like I was in the wild west trading horses.
Don't let this individual sales experience sour you though. Remember, there are sales people that are idiots. There are also buyers that are idiots. If you attempt to professionally speak with the general manager (NOT sales manager) or even the owner, perhaps you can relay your experience and try to reach some sort of accord. I wouldn't blame you if you were bitter enough not to buy there though. In which case, let it go and move on.
Remember, though - everyone is there to make money and they need to sell enough cars at enough profit to feed their families too (I know, cue the violins but remember, it has been a tough economy for car dealers and car sales people). You would think this would motivate them to offer better deals but it also encourages them to spend time on buyers that they feel they will have the best opportunity to buy with them. It really is wasting their time to ask them to negotiate, etc. and spend a lot of time when there is no expectation that you will buy from them if you can get a little lower price somewhere else. (I'm not saying this was your approach OP, just saying in general).
Ok, enough ranting. Sorry to take things a bit off topic here.
Cheers!
Jay
A few thoughts:
Internet - Yes, this is a fast tool and allows the buyer to cast a wide net. However, I do not believe that the car industry has figured out how to harness the power of the internet. For that matter, I don't think they've figured out how to create a positive sales experience when buying a car in general. I mean, what is invoice these days? There are so many ways that car dealers earn money (and to be fair, lose money) that it really depends on the savvy buyer to determine whether they are getting the best deal they can.
With that being said - if you put yourself in their shoes, the dealers get inundated with calls and emails from internet shoppers whose only value is the lowest price. I mean, let's face it - everyone thinks that all Lexus dealers will provide the same level of service regardless of where you actually purchase the vehicle so there is no real advantage to buying 'local' vs. traveling or shipping a car to save a few dollars. So the only way that a dealer can really differentiate itself is with the sales service and trying to create value in that relationship.
As you mention, and I noticed on quite a few Lexus occassions recently, I haven't found a single sales person that has 'differentiated' themselves from any other Lexus dealer enough to get me to pay more money on a car. It really is a shame.
So back to the point - why not come up with a price that is reasonable and offer it to everyone? Forget the haggling, bidding, shopping, etc. I know lots of folks will argue the theory here - and I'm not saying I truly believe this is the best way to go about things - but why should someone who sends an email deserve a better price than someone who walks in or calls on the phone? Really the whole process is just ridiculous.
If you were getting inundated all day long with people who were only shopping for the absolute lowest price on a car, you would probably figure out a way to convert them from inernet, faceless shoppers to potential customers right? Best way to do that? Get em into the dealership and 'wow' them with your service differentiation so that the absolute lowest price may not be as important as that ongoing relationship.
So yes, the internet sales manager is a scam. They really don't want to sell cars that way as they know anyone that is shopping will likely take their best offer and keep shopping it around until someone is willing to beat it by $100. Whoever is the last dealership called before some special financing expires or inventory drops usually gets the sale. So all of the 'internet sales managers' (who I still believe is just a rotating list of the regular sales people but whatever) are finding that it's not even worth wasting their time replying to internet inquiries because it's very difficult to actually get those sales. For that I can't necessarily blame them - but the better approach is to do something novel - offer your best price and financing terms up front. Just be honest and say "This is what we need to sell the car for" and then describe why there is value in buying from them.
I think that most people buying a Lexus these days will actually value that approach and do, typically, want to feel that they are working with a dealership that will be there to provide the 'Lexus Experience'.
I know I could have probably paid a bit less for my RX but I really didn't have to time to shop and I spoke directly with the sales manager at our dealership that we've used before. He gave me a fair deal up front and I was happy enough with that. To be honest - I really didn't expect his first price to be as low as it was. I had been researching a few places and he really gave a great price in comparison so I didn't even have to negotiate (too much
).So yes, internet shopping is frutstrating but at some point, as the OP mentions, the absolute lowest sale price shouldn't be the only consideration IF you value some other components of the Lexus experience. Now it's up to the dealerships and Lexus to get that 'Lexus Experience' back into practice. I was pretty disappointed with the salespeople I dealt with at a few dealerships - lack of product knowledge and I felt like I was in the wild west trading horses.
Don't let this individual sales experience sour you though. Remember, there are sales people that are idiots. There are also buyers that are idiots. If you attempt to professionally speak with the general manager (NOT sales manager) or even the owner, perhaps you can relay your experience and try to reach some sort of accord. I wouldn't blame you if you were bitter enough not to buy there though. In which case, let it go and move on.
Remember, though - everyone is there to make money and they need to sell enough cars at enough profit to feed their families too (I know, cue the violins but remember, it has been a tough economy for car dealers and car sales people). You would think this would motivate them to offer better deals but it also encourages them to spend time on buyers that they feel they will have the best opportunity to buy with them. It really is wasting their time to ask them to negotiate, etc. and spend a lot of time when there is no expectation that you will buy from them if you can get a little lower price somewhere else. (I'm not saying this was your approach OP, just saying in general).
Ok, enough ranting. Sorry to take things a bit off topic here.
Cheers!
Jay
09-11-09, 07:58 AM
#4
No, I don't play soccer!
Jay, excellent assessment. I would not get caught up in how cheap I could get a car. It could bite ya' in the end.
When I was at my dealer last weekend, I picked up a CD at the front desk. It was a minute long message from the GM asking customers to contact him if they were not happy with their buying experience. He basically said they should call/come back so he could work with them. And if they did buy a car, he would treat them to dinner. I was curious why such an approach was out there but I guess based on the above, I can see why.
When I was at my dealer last weekend, I picked up a CD at the front desk. It was a minute long message from the GM asking customers to contact him if they were not happy with their buying experience. He basically said they should call/come back so he could work with them. And if they did buy a car, he would treat them to dinner. I was curious why such an approach was out there but I guess based on the above, I can see why.
09-11-09, 09:32 AM
#5
Sakke,
It is regrettable that people go through experiences like yours when buying a car. I think this mostly happens because most buyers try to buy the car without doing enough research/homework, and have no idea how to negotiate.
If you search through this forum you will find similar postings, and some good advice on how to go about it.
One key point is that you need to do tons of research prior to stepping into a dealership to buy the car. Figure out the "out the door" price you are willing to spend. The "out the door" price is the complete cost of the car, and not one cent more:
Decide what is the out-the-door price you are willing to spend, and make that offer. If the dealer accepts, then great. If not, then walk out. There will always be more opportunities.
And please, there is no reason to subject yourself to dealer abuse. You don't need to take things so personally, and if the situation starts to get unpleasant, then just leave.
It is pretty hard to believe that some dealer treated you in this manner. I guess he figured out that you weren't going to buy the car anyways, and decided to unload on you. Again, there is no point staying around for that.
It is regrettable that people go through experiences like yours when buying a car. I think this mostly happens because most buyers try to buy the car without doing enough research/homework, and have no idea how to negotiate.
If you search through this forum you will find similar postings, and some good advice on how to go about it.
One key point is that you need to do tons of research prior to stepping into a dealership to buy the car. Figure out the "out the door" price you are willing to spend. The "out the door" price is the complete cost of the car, and not one cent more:
- Dealer invoice for car
- Dealer invoice for options
- Dealer profit
- Dealer fees
- Destination charge
- License and registration
- Taxes
Decide what is the out-the-door price you are willing to spend, and make that offer. If the dealer accepts, then great. If not, then walk out. There will always be more opportunities.
And please, there is no reason to subject yourself to dealer abuse. You don't need to take things so personally, and if the situation starts to get unpleasant, then just leave.
It is pretty hard to believe that some dealer treated you in this manner. I guess he figured out that you weren't going to buy the car anyways, and decided to unload on you. Again, there is no point staying around for that.
Last edited by ajs; 09-11-09 at 09:35 AM.
09-12-09, 04:59 AM
#7
Well put DNC!
The only problem is when you only have one dealership in your area and they treat you like this. I can't stand when that happens. I had an experience with an Infiniti dealer (too long to post) but I will not buy a car from that deler again - ever (so they've lost 2 more sales already). It's a shame because they are the most local to me and I hate to put all of those miles on my car for service. They also didn't have pick up/drop off valet service which meant even more of a headache driving longer distances for service. Found a dealer a reasonable distance away, explained the situation and they valet my car for service - and it is a 1.5 hour drive. Now all Infiniti dealers do valet. Bad experience with a bad dealer ended up being very inconvenient for me - but I stuck to my guns for the very reason DNC wrote above.
Do NOT reward poor service!
Jay
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09-12-09, 09:24 AM
#8
No, I don't play soccer!
Jay, I can't say having more than one dealer around makes it better. The two local Lexus dealers lost my business - no respect whatsoever. I do have several more dealers within 25 miles but I choose to drive 38 miles to my current dealer. And here I am 3 RXs and 11 years later. I do not reward poor service. I let my money do the talking.
Judging by other people's experiences, I am in the minority. I actually enjoy going to my dealer. They're awesome. And they do exist.
Judging by other people's experiences, I am in the minority. I actually enjoy going to my dealer. They're awesome. And they do exist.
09-12-09, 12:47 PM
#9
Does anyone remember this Lexus introduction from twenty years ago? I do, and so does our dealership. Maybe Lexus and some of their dealerships have forgotten.
"Lexus will enter the most competitive,
prestigious automobile race in the world.
Over 50 years of Toyota automotive experience
has culminated in the creation of Lexus cars.
They will be the finest cars ever built.
Lexus will win the race because
Lexus will do it right from the start.
Lexus will have the finest
dealer network in the industry.
Lexus will treat each customer
as we would a guest in our home.
If you think you can't, you won't...
If you think you can, you will!
We can, we will."
"Lexus will enter the most competitive,
prestigious automobile race in the world.
Over 50 years of Toyota automotive experience
has culminated in the creation of Lexus cars.
They will be the finest cars ever built.
Lexus will win the race because
Lexus will do it right from the start.
Lexus will have the finest
dealer network in the industry.
Lexus will treat each customer
as we would a guest in our home.
If you think you can't, you won't...
If you think you can, you will!
We can, we will."
Last edited by DNC; 09-12-09 at 12:53 PM.
09-12-09, 05:23 PM
#10
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Guys, thank you for your valuable comments and wonderful words. Special thanks for Jay. I was really upset after the visit on Thursday and still on Friday. After reading your comments I cheered up.
Actually, I sent the same story to vice president on Friday as I wrote here. He replied and was sorry to hear that I was treated improperly and promised to forward my e-mail to the right person. I was then contacted by the general manager who also was very polite and asked me to accept his apologies. I slept one more night before I answered to his e-mail.
Your comments really made me think about the whole case again from different perspective. I got extremely upset when the discussions started to go out of order with the salesman and I felt it unpleasant. After reading your comments I understood that this kind of behaviour (salesman) is not uncommon here in U.S. If salesman loses his or her temper in my home country, it would immediately lead to bad reputation and loss in sale. Here one spoiled customer does not necessarily mean anything for a salesman or loss in sale. Volume matters. In August 2009 total 6,103 cars (and trucks) were sold in my home country and only 9 of those were Lexus. At the same time 22,892 Lexus (cars and trucks) were sold in U.S. However, in my opinion there are no excuses when given promises are not kept.
Back to this story... I accepted the general managers apologies. He will handle the transaction himself and I'll get the car in the original price. I just had to accept the fact that I need a car and I do not want to travel few hundred miles to get it for a slight increase in discount. On next week RX 450h will be delivered to me. I hope it will give me a lot of pleasure for the coming years.
Sakke
Actually, I sent the same story to vice president on Friday as I wrote here. He replied and was sorry to hear that I was treated improperly and promised to forward my e-mail to the right person. I was then contacted by the general manager who also was very polite and asked me to accept his apologies. I slept one more night before I answered to his e-mail.
Your comments really made me think about the whole case again from different perspective. I got extremely upset when the discussions started to go out of order with the salesman and I felt it unpleasant. After reading your comments I understood that this kind of behaviour (salesman) is not uncommon here in U.S. If salesman loses his or her temper in my home country, it would immediately lead to bad reputation and loss in sale. Here one spoiled customer does not necessarily mean anything for a salesman or loss in sale. Volume matters. In August 2009 total 6,103 cars (and trucks) were sold in my home country and only 9 of those were Lexus. At the same time 22,892 Lexus (cars and trucks) were sold in U.S. However, in my opinion there are no excuses when given promises are not kept.
Back to this story... I accepted the general managers apologies. He will handle the transaction himself and I'll get the car in the original price. I just had to accept the fact that I need a car and I do not want to travel few hundred miles to get it for a slight increase in discount. On next week RX 450h will be delivered to me. I hope it will give me a lot of pleasure for the coming years.
Sakke
09-12-09, 06:13 PM
#11
No, I don't play soccer!
Sakke, congratulations. I'm glad it worked out. Your persistence paid off! And I credit you for accepting the apology offered by the general manager. I'm sure it wasn't easy.
Please post pictures when you get your 450h.
Please post pictures when you get your 450h.
09-13-09, 06:18 AM
#12
Congrats as well Sakke. Glad we all were able to help. The process of buying a car in the US is one of the most dreaded things a consumer can think of.
I am one of the few people out there who actually enjoys the process, but I think that is more of a sickness than anything else .
I almost feel like it is a challenge to find the right price with the right sales process. I don't mind if the dealer makes some money, nor do I mind if the sales person makes some money. I don't need to get the absolute lowest price in history but I also want to make sure I get a fair deal.
I do a lot of research to see what is reasonable (this and other boards as well as Edmunds 'purchase and lease experiences' boards) and then I try to get close to what most folks are saying. A little less is great, a little more isn't the end of the world.
Then I interact with the dealers to see which ones have that Lexus philosophy. It sounds like this is where your dealership dropped the ball. It starts from the top down but you can always find a bad egg here or there.
Luckily you received an apology and you are gracious for accepting it and not going elsewhere. They should be as appreciative of your willingness to still buy there as you are that the VP apologized to you.
Good luck with your new RX. You will surely enjoy it . . . and don't worry, after you drive it a few times and the anxiety of the sales experience dies down you will realize that the 'slight discount' that you discussed isn't as big a deal as it seems to you now.
Enjoy your new ride and please post pics when you get it!
Jay
I am one of the few people out there who actually enjoys the process, but I think that is more of a sickness than anything else
.I almost feel like it is a challenge to find the right price with the right sales process. I don't mind if the dealer makes some money, nor do I mind if the sales person makes some money. I don't need to get the absolute lowest price in history but I also want to make sure I get a fair deal.
I do a lot of research to see what is reasonable (this and other boards as well as Edmunds 'purchase and lease experiences' boards) and then I try to get close to what most folks are saying. A little less is great, a little more isn't the end of the world.
Then I interact with the dealers to see which ones have that Lexus philosophy. It sounds like this is where your dealership dropped the ball. It starts from the top down but you can always find a bad egg here or there.
Luckily you received an apology and you are gracious for accepting it and not going elsewhere. They should be as appreciative of your willingness to still buy there as you are that the VP apologized to you.
Good luck with your new RX. You will surely enjoy it . . . and don't worry, after you drive it a few times and the anxiety of the sales experience dies down you will realize that the 'slight discount' that you discussed isn't as big a deal as it seems to you now.
Enjoy your new ride and please post pics when you get it!
Jay
09-14-09, 06:07 AM
#14
Pole Position
Saake,
I am also a Pittsburgher and have purchased/leased maybe a dozen cars (mostly Lexus) from the dealership who owns both Pittsburgh Lexus stores. I have found them tough to negotiate with at the purchase, but not impossible. The good news is that they have always followed through to my satisfaction, service is excellent and they are pretty easy to deal with once you finally negotiate a price. And, yes, you should ask for the sales manager or even the general manager if there are unresolved issues. It also sounds to me like there were some cultural issues frankly. Going into any car dealership here is always like diving into a shark tank. You have to have that attitude and not let anything that happens be taken personally.
I am also a Pittsburgher and have purchased/leased maybe a dozen cars (mostly Lexus) from the dealership who owns both Pittsburgh Lexus stores. I have found them tough to negotiate with at the purchase, but not impossible. The good news is that they have always followed through to my satisfaction, service is excellent and they are pretty easy to deal with once you finally negotiate a price. And, yes, you should ask for the sales manager or even the general manager if there are unresolved issues. It also sounds to me like there were some cultural issues frankly. Going into any car dealership here is always like diving into a shark tank. You have to have that attitude and not let anything that happens be taken personally.
09-14-09, 06:33 AM
#15
Moderator
The other good news is that once you have taken delivery, all of your communications from that point forward will be with the service department, and not with sales.
I don't think I ever accidentally ran into my salesmen at the dealership after a purchase.
With that in mind, when you visit the dealership to get your new car, ask to meet the service manager (often this introduction is a part of the new car delivery program). Be sure you know how to call the service dept. if for nothing more than to schedule routine scheduled items. If you new car is anything like the 3 Lexus cars I have owned, you will not be visiting "service" very much at all, but it's nice to know with whom you will be dealing if that becomes necessary.
I'm glad to hear that things regarding your purchase have worked out for you.
I don't think I ever accidentally ran into my salesmen at the dealership after a purchase.
With that in mind, when you visit the dealership to get your new car, ask to meet the service manager (often this introduction is a part of the new car delivery program). Be sure you know how to call the service dept. if for nothing more than to schedule routine scheduled items. If you new car is anything like the 3 Lexus cars I have owned, you will not be visiting "service" very much at all, but it's nice to know with whom you will be dealing if that becomes necessary.
I'm glad to hear that things regarding your purchase have worked out for you.