Is my RX330 totalled after this accident?
11-30-07, 10:09 PM
#1
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Is my RX330 totaled after this accident?
First post to the forum, and maybe the last. Got into an accident last night in my wife's 05 RX330. Condensed version of the story. I was going through an intersection at 30 to 35mph. An 07 RAV4 moves across the intersection from my left against the red light and ends up in front of me. I hit the right front end of his car, we ricochet off each other, and I end up hitting a mini-van stopped at the light. 3 police cars, a fire engine and two ambulances responded. A woman riding in the RAV4 was taken away in the ambulance. I did not attempt to move the car as the engine stopped as a result of the accident and after extiting the vehicle I saw radiator fluid all over the ground.
Anyway, the reason I am posting to this forum is that my wife does not want this car to be fixed. We are basically hoping for it to be totaled. Based on the pictures, can anyone comment on whether this looks like a total loss? Any suggestions for how to handle the claim to insure it is totaled. The claims adjuster will be looking at the car on Monday.
BTW, I am okay so far, only have some minor shoulder pain. The Lexus was a great car and definitely took the brunt of the impact. Gotta love crumple zones and air bags.
Anyway, the reason I am posting to this forum is that my wife does not want this car to be fixed. We are basically hoping for it to be totaled. Based on the pictures, can anyone comment on whether this looks like a total loss? Any suggestions for how to handle the claim to insure it is totaled. The claims adjuster will be looking at the car on Monday.
BTW, I am okay so far, only have some minor shoulder pain. The Lexus was a great car and definitely took the brunt of the impact. Gotta love crumple zones and air bags.
Last edited by froggersrx; 12-01-07 at 12:14 AM.
11-30-07, 11:01 PM
#2
Moderator
Welcome ... typically CL asks that new members to post pictures of their rides as an introduction ...
To answer your question ... total is a technical used by insurance industry when the cost of repairs is equal or more than the blue-book value.
So start by establishing blue-book value.
Typically the insurance company will either send an adjuster or ask you to take it in for estimates.
[there is always a gray zone .. salvage value of old RX too]. If the numbers are close you can always make a case.
Now if the insurance company insists on getting the RX repaired, you can flat bed it after repair to a used car sales lot and sell it [do not drive it around]. If the sale price is below the blue-book value, you can potentially go back to the insurance company for the difference.If it is over then just keep the money.
For the above to work, you may need to talk to a lawyer, but most of all you should not be in a hurry to get into a replacement vehicle [or not depend upon insurance settlement or sale]
Salim
To answer your question ... total is a technical used by insurance industry when the cost of repairs is equal or more than the blue-book value.
So start by establishing blue-book value.
Typically the insurance company will either send an adjuster or ask you to take it in for estimates.
[there is always a gray zone .. salvage value of old RX too]. If the numbers are close you can always make a case.
Now if the insurance company insists on getting the RX repaired, you can flat bed it after repair to a used car sales lot and sell it [do not drive it around]. If the sale price is below the blue-book value, you can potentially go back to the insurance company for the difference.If it is over then just keep the money.
For the above to work, you may need to talk to a lawyer, but most of all you should not be in a hurry to get into a replacement vehicle [or not depend upon insurance settlement or sale]
Salim
11-30-07, 11:45 PM
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Id have to guess totaled. Airbags, and just a lot of front end work looks necessary. rear door door as well. Looks like the frame took a prettty good hit.
Hope all goes the way you want it to, and glad that your well.
Hope all goes the way you want it to, and glad that your well.
12-01-07, 12:26 AM
#5
Out of Warranty
Ouch! That looks bad. Glad you're OK.
It doesn't seem to take much to total a Lexus. A friend wiped out a beautiful, low-mileage ES a few years ago with no more obvious damage than flattening everything forward of the radiator, bending the hood, and firing the driver's airbags. No apparent structural damage, one fender was slightly bowed, and of course the bumper was destroyed. Other than the airbag having fired, the car was completely drivable after the accident.
Most important, your RX performed its primary function and saved your life. That's worth more than all the insurance in the world. Now, go get checked out by your family doctor!
It doesn't seem to take much to total a Lexus. A friend wiped out a beautiful, low-mileage ES a few years ago with no more obvious damage than flattening everything forward of the radiator, bending the hood, and firing the driver's airbags. No apparent structural damage, one fender was slightly bowed, and of course the bumper was destroyed. Other than the airbag having fired, the car was completely drivable after the accident.
Most important, your RX performed its primary function and saved your life. That's worth more than all the insurance in the world. Now, go get checked out by your family doctor!
Last edited by Lil4X; 12-01-07 at 12:29 AM.
12-01-07, 01:20 AM
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hmm...side airbags didnt go off even though the rear door was hit...interesting
looks like a total for me. from the looks of it, you have a base rx330 (from the basic rims) so its probably worth about 23K at most. seeing as how the front took so much of a hit. id bet on a total
looks like a total for me. from the looks of it, you have a base rx330 (from the basic rims) so its probably worth about 23K at most. seeing as how the front took so much of a hit. id bet on a total
12-01-07, 04:02 AM
#7
hmm...side airbags didnt go off even though the rear door was hit...interesting
looks like a total for me. from the looks of it, you have a base rx330 (from the basic rims) so its probably worth about 23K at most. seeing as how the front took so much of a hit. id bet on a total
looks like a total for me. from the looks of it, you have a base rx330 (from the basic rims) so its probably worth about 23K at most. seeing as how the front took so much of a hit. id bet on a total
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12-01-07, 06:35 AM
#9
1. I am glad that all are ok.
2. The car can be easily replaced - you can't
3. it is almost humorous to read that the will\won'tbe totalled based on the casual observation of folks looking at a couple of photos. Don't get me wrong; I am not flaming them. It is just that these cars are SO complex anymore, that even minor fender benders can cost thousands of dollars and NO ONE who glances at a couple of pictures can give you a definitive answer. Especially if that person is not a body shop expert.
Wait two more days and then ask the service manager at your repair shop.
2. The car can be easily replaced - you can't
3. it is almost humorous to read that the will\won'tbe totalled based on the casual observation of folks looking at a couple of photos. Don't get me wrong; I am not flaming them. It is just that these cars are SO complex anymore, that even minor fender benders can cost thousands of dollars and NO ONE who glances at a couple of pictures can give you a definitive answer. Especially if that person is not a body shop expert.
Wait two more days and then ask the service manager at your repair shop.
12-01-07, 06:53 AM
#10
Don't think that's going to polish out.
Glad you're ok. You are probably going to find that you might have some aches and pains today though. The funny thing about this kind of accident is that usually your adrenaline is pumping so high you don't feel any pain. Frequently, after a night's sleep, it becomes evident. I'd probably start popping some NSAID at the first sign of discomfort. From the look of the car I'd have advised you to take a trip to the ER for x-rays and a precautionary check.
From the photo's, I suspect that the car will be called a total. The cost to repair that much damage might well be more than the value of the car. OEM replacement parts are about triple the cost of the original build and the labor costs total up really fast. Despite what Grupmpa thinks, I have been close to this repair industry for a spell and you can get a reasonable feel for repair cost ballpark at a glance. Sure there are unseen things and based on a quick glance you can only guess at the hidden damage. That's what I'm doing when I say it will be totaled, my guess. Full front clip, real quarter, driver side doors, suspension, frame damage, IMO, it will be too difficult to put that vehicle back into OEM condition.
Was the RAV4 driver cited by the police? Important factor. If so, and she was cited for failure to yield for a red light, inattentive driving, or some such, I'd contact my insurance and have them look at the car. You should be able to collect on your collision and have your insurance company subrogate the amount back to the other driver's insurer. You should only have an out of pocket cost of the deductible and that should be recouped at the subrogation by your insurance company. This action should not affect your rates and will most likely shorten your hassle time considerably. In a case where the other driver was at fault and was ticketed, your insurance becomes your best friend. There is no foot dragging when your insurer takes the reign. You might also be eligible for a rental car for a while.
You might consider trying to negotiate with your Lexus dealer for a new RX and have them take the old damaged vehicle and the insurance money in trade.
Good luck, and I hope you find another RX.
Glad you're ok. You are probably going to find that you might have some aches and pains today though. The funny thing about this kind of accident is that usually your adrenaline is pumping so high you don't feel any pain. Frequently, after a night's sleep, it becomes evident. I'd probably start popping some NSAID at the first sign of discomfort. From the look of the car I'd have advised you to take a trip to the ER for x-rays and a precautionary check.
From the photo's, I suspect that the car will be called a total. The cost to repair that much damage might well be more than the value of the car. OEM replacement parts are about triple the cost of the original build and the labor costs total up really fast. Despite what Grupmpa thinks, I have been close to this repair industry for a spell and you can get a reasonable feel for repair cost ballpark at a glance. Sure there are unseen things and based on a quick glance you can only guess at the hidden damage. That's what I'm doing when I say it will be totaled, my guess. Full front clip, real quarter, driver side doors, suspension, frame damage, IMO, it will be too difficult to put that vehicle back into OEM condition.
Was the RAV4 driver cited by the police? Important factor. If so, and she was cited for failure to yield for a red light, inattentive driving, or some such, I'd contact my insurance and have them look at the car. You should be able to collect on your collision and have your insurance company subrogate the amount back to the other driver's insurer. You should only have an out of pocket cost of the deductible and that should be recouped at the subrogation by your insurance company. This action should not affect your rates and will most likely shorten your hassle time considerably. In a case where the other driver was at fault and was ticketed, your insurance becomes your best friend. There is no foot dragging when your insurer takes the reign. You might also be eligible for a rental car for a while.
You might consider trying to negotiate with your Lexus dealer for a new RX and have them take the old damaged vehicle and the insurance money in trade.
Good luck, and I hope you find another RX.
Last edited by jfelbab; 12-01-07 at 07:06 AM.
12-01-07, 09:07 AM
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Thanks for the responses...
To answer a few questions/comments. I saw a docotor yesterday, just to err on the side of caution, and to have an official report of my condition after the accident. Doctor says I'm just fine, will be pain free in a few weeks.
The police took a full report at the scene and told me that the report would reflect no fault on my part. Not sure if the RAV4 driver was cited.
I have already made a claim to my insurance company to begin handling all the issues. They have said they will take care of everything, and yes I will only be out the deductible. They also offered a rental car, but I'm not sure we're going to take it.
As to the car, it has 30k miles on it, is AWD, and has the Premium Package. I'm taking a guess that it's around $28 to $29k. The passenger side rear door is the only one that still opens correctly. The passenger front and driver rear do not open at all. The drivers door only opened about two feet right after the accident (it now opens about half way).
BTW, RXSF, I was also surprised that the side airbags did not deploy. I actually think my shoulder bruising was a result of being knocked in to the side of the car. The side impact occurred after the initial front impact. Not sure if the system will fire again after the first firing. Does anybody know?
The police took a full report at the scene and told me that the report would reflect no fault on my part. Not sure if the RAV4 driver was cited.
I have already made a claim to my insurance company to begin handling all the issues. They have said they will take care of everything, and yes I will only be out the deductible. They also offered a rental car, but I'm not sure we're going to take it.
As to the car, it has 30k miles on it, is AWD, and has the Premium Package. I'm taking a guess that it's around $28 to $29k. The passenger side rear door is the only one that still opens correctly. The passenger front and driver rear do not open at all. The drivers door only opened about two feet right after the accident (it now opens about half way).
BTW, RXSF, I was also surprised that the side airbags did not deploy. I actually think my shoulder bruising was a result of being knocked in to the side of the car. The side impact occurred after the initial front impact. Not sure if the system will fire again after the first firing. Does anybody know?
12-01-07, 09:45 AM
#12
Super Moderator
We've fixed worse at my uncle's shop and in those cases the insurance adjusters claimed it was not totalled. In fact one was a Toyota Sienna minivan that I swore should have been totalled, was a rollover and got hit in the front (hit another vehicle first at extremely high speed and then rolled over). It's too bad as I wanted to leech parts off of it.
My uncle had a Ford Ranger in here last week that got hit similarly to yours, but that person had no insurance whatsover, so needed someone who could do it for a low amount of $$$.
My uncle had a Ford Ranger in here last week that got hit similarly to yours, but that person had no insurance whatsover, so needed someone who could do it for a low amount of $$$.
12-01-07, 07:09 PM
#13
Lexus Test Driver
I would question your Lexus service and get some answers as to why those side air bags did not deploy!! It would be great to hear an answer on that--Let us know what they say.
Differant sensors at diff spots, just because the fronts fired-----The sides should be ready to fire as well if needed...
Totalled
So you hope
Differant sensors at diff spots, just because the fronts fired-----The sides should be ready to fire as well if needed...
Totalled
So you hope
12-01-07, 08:08 PM
#14
Out of Warranty
The front airbags fire in a head-on impact that produces a level of deceleration consistent with a 5mph barrier crash, while the side air bags will fire only on a similar crash 90 degrees off the centerline. The curtain airbags, as I understand it will fire at this point also, or in the event of a rollover. Your front seatbelt pretensioners should have fired too, taking up the slack in the seatbelts.
Since the impact in the rear door was the result of a secondary collision, the deceleration may not have reached the threshold value required to trigger the side airbags. While the damage looks pretty severe, that's a very "soft" spot to take a hit.
If the front doors do not open normally, there has been a fair amount of damage to the monocoque structure. This, although it may represent only a small amount of deflection, is difficult to repair properly. It takes a whale of a lot of energy to deform that body shell . . . and a highly skilled frame specialist to straighten out.
Since the impact in the rear door was the result of a secondary collision, the deceleration may not have reached the threshold value required to trigger the side airbags. While the damage looks pretty severe, that's a very "soft" spot to take a hit.
If the front doors do not open normally, there has been a fair amount of damage to the monocoque structure. This, although it may represent only a small amount of deflection, is difficult to repair properly. It takes a whale of a lot of energy to deform that body shell . . . and a highly skilled frame specialist to straighten out.
12-02-07, 03:35 PM
#15
Intermediate
The most important is that you are all right!
Based on your statement that the car worth of about $29K, I don’t think it will be totaled (sorry). That is just my opinion.
Couple of years ago I had identical accident in my TL (got rid of it as per my point number 2), when kid did not stop in his left turn through intersection, when I was proceeding straight through. He got the ticket, but eventually, litigation between two insurance companies settled it at his fault at 80% and mine at 20%. Go figure!
Here are your options:
1. If the car is totaled, you get car market value, not KBB, or Edmunds, etc. Do not settle on “blue book” value, as you cannot go and buy your car for what it is offering to you. Ask for retails + tax! This is critical, so not settle for less. To prove your stand get couple of quotes on identical vehicles from local dealers.
2. If your insurance company will not total the car and will offer to fix it, you have an option to decline repair and to take repair money and sell whatever left of your car to anybody. This way you get as good deal as you can in given situation. Typically, whoever inspects your car will offer information on shop that will buy it from you. However, you will have to pay towing and car storage fees out of your pocket.
3. Your third option (as already discussed) is to fix it and to sell it, or trade it in for new vehicle. Please note that by law you may have to disclose whatever happened to that car to car buyer.
Good luck.
Based on your statement that the car worth of about $29K, I don’t think it will be totaled (sorry). That is just my opinion.
Couple of years ago I had identical accident in my TL (got rid of it as per my point number 2), when kid did not stop in his left turn through intersection, when I was proceeding straight through. He got the ticket, but eventually, litigation between two insurance companies settled it at his fault at 80% and mine at 20%. Go figure!
Here are your options:
1. If the car is totaled, you get car market value, not KBB, or Edmunds, etc. Do not settle on “blue book” value, as you cannot go and buy your car for what it is offering to you. Ask for retails + tax! This is critical, so not settle for less. To prove your stand get couple of quotes on identical vehicles from local dealers.
2. If your insurance company will not total the car and will offer to fix it, you have an option to decline repair and to take repair money and sell whatever left of your car to anybody. This way you get as good deal as you can in given situation. Typically, whoever inspects your car will offer information on shop that will buy it from you. However, you will have to pay towing and car storage fees out of your pocket.
3. Your third option (as already discussed) is to fix it and to sell it, or trade it in for new vehicle. Please note that by law you may have to disclose whatever happened to that car to car buyer.
Good luck.
