ADKLEXUS

I just bought my Lexus and have never owned one or a Toyota for that matter (happy so far, though). I did go to the dealer and spring for the $30 anti-freeze with the hope this would keep the engine and cooling system in good shape. If the A1 was $27, why not just spend the extra $3/jug for the sure bet?

carguy07

You're off to a good start, now start shopping around for a friendly dealer who will sell you stuff for about 25% off of those prices or put together larger orders and buy off the net (so shipping does not hurt so much).

Brcobrem

Hi ADKLEXUS,

Simple answer: The gallon jug of Pentofrost A1 is 100% antifreeze, not a diluted 50% antifreeze/50 distilled water premix. So I effectively get 2 gallons of anti-freeze for for my $27US. A decade or two ago, someone in marketing or the executive suite of some antifreeze manufacturer or packager bet that the average Joe/Jane wouldn't have the experience to notice that they were no longer getting 100% antifreeze in the jug. Or . . . perhaps they thought that not having to make your own mix was a "convenience" that people wanted and were willing to pay for. At the price of this red stuff, I have no problem mixing my own. I'd love to know what the manufacturing profit margin is.

If you're not aware, antifreeze is mostly water and common polyethylene glycol (aka Carbowax made by Dow). The latter used to be relatively cheap. I know because I used to buy it in 55 gallon drums to stabilize "green" wood in big tanks (e.g like gun stock manufacturers do). It's the slippery syrupy stuff that you feel in antifreeze. It looks like a 55 gallon chunk of wax, and it readily dissolves in water. Also used in products like lipstick, foods, pharmaceuticals, etc.. Here's a link if you want the details:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylene_glycol

Sorry, I get unnerved when companies put stuff in smaller packages and charge more for it. Just "my 2 cents worth" on the subject. Are there any Toyota "old timers" out there that might remember if "Toyota Red" was originally 100% antifreeze, before it was made "more convenient" for us?

Regards,
Brcobrem


P.S (imho) : It's unfortunate for consumers that there is no DOT standard for antifreeze like there is for motor oil and break fluid. If there was, then we wouldn't be fishing around in the dark for answers like we are all doing now. Unless I'm missing something, I haven't yet read anything in the owner's manual that says I have to use some special mystical "Toyota Green" motor oil that I should only buy at the dealer.

carguy07

As far as I know, Toyota red has never been premixed. You still cut it 50/50 with distilled water. The newer pink is premixed. It pissed me off back in the day when manufacturers started selling antifreeze premixed and actually charging more for it than uncut.

I can't say with certainty what the quality of aftermarket antifreeze looks like at this moment in time. In the past there were some crappy mixes being sold that gooped up cooling systems (GM even had some OE versions that were garbage).

I can say with certainty that Toyota red is without a doubt one of the best mixes ever made. It is or was already in our cars. It is still cut 50/50 with water and costs about $20 a gallon if you shop around. I can't find any reason to try out anything else when the OE fluid is reasonably priced and hands down one of the best ever made.

But feel free to experiment with anything you wish.

code58

Carguy, you speak the truth. This thread reminds me of the old saying, "never try to teach a pig how to dance. It only annoys the pig and frustrates you." The people that swear that all tires, spark plugs, oil, coolant, gas, etc., etc., are the same will never be convinced that there is anything different but the price and profit. Let 'em put the 99 cent plugs in their car, the $1 a quart oil, the $29 tires. Just make sure you don't ever buy their car when they offer it for sale, let the clueless guy who also thinks those things are true buy it, he deserves it. Don't try and "teach that pig how to dance"!

salimshah

I would grossly group the alternatives into 3 groups.

Junk/bad-reputation:
Every one knows that they should only be used in emergency/no-alternative.

Comparable/equally-good: (specs and reputable manufacturer)
This starts getting to be in grey area. I tend not to experiment and stay with OEM and for generic stuff choose reputable and tried and tested product.

Exotic - hyped up stuff:
This is high margin and at times great stuff. I stay away from them too and would consider it in extreme situations.

But that is just me.

Salim

PaulDaisy

The main component of antifreeze is ethylene glycol, not to be confused with polyethylene glycol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_glycol
Your favorite antifreeze MSDS says exactly that:
http://www.pentosin.net/pressrelease...%201-11-11.pdf

ADKLEXUS

Should have been more clear- the $30 anti-freeze I bought was 100%, not 50/50.

Still loving the Lexus. I have 11 month old twins and they love it as well. Their car seats fit great and the tinting in back keeps the glare off them. All of their stuff fits in the trunk. Great kid car.

Brcobrem

Just a followup to this old thread:

Today I added 6oz (mixed to 50/50) of that same jug of "Penterfrost A1" "Antifreeze/Coolant" that I bought back in 2012. It is 100% concentrate, so I always cut it down to 50/50 using distilled water. Like others have mentioned in this thread's posts, these RX300's like to have a little drink now and then. Maybe it waits all year and does a couple shots every St. Patty's Day (ie. that was yesterday) :->

Regards . . .

sktn77a

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the followup Brcobrem. However, for anyone else reading this thread, please go and get the Toyota "red" undiluted long life antifreeze from your Toyota/Lexus dealer for your RX300. Don't use the "pink" premixed ultra long life - that's for later (~post 2003) vehicles.

Brcobrem

Hi sktn77a,

Today's reply to you has taken a couple different direction's based on research I was doing as I was writing. So it if seems a bit jumbled up, now you know why. Here goes:

Now for the CRITICAL discussion of which model years "Penterfrost A1" (USA P/N 8115203) is suited for: If we go to the Penterfrost manufacturer's site at http://www.pentosin.net/f_antifreeze.asp, we can see on the right side they have, not one, but two versions of this product. The first is the one (USA P/N 8115203) that I've been using in my 2000 RX300:
PENTOFROST A1 (Concentrate) Size: 3.79 liters (1 US gallon), Part# 8115203 3.79 liters (1 US gallon), Part# 8115204 (Canada only) Color: Red CLICK HERE for PENTOFROST A1 Spec Sheet Toyota (1985-2004) Lexus (1990-2004) Scion (2004).
Additionally, the data Sheet shows "Toyota, Lexus, Scion 00272-1LLAC".
That confirms you are spot on about the 2003/2004) cutoff for this product's p/n and sku. It gets more interesting . . .

On that same site page, further down the right side we see:
PENTOFROST A4 (50/50 Pre-Diluted) Size: 3.79 liters (1 US gallon), Part# 8115209 3.79 liters (1 US gallon), Part# 8115210 (Canada only) Color: Pink CLICK HERE for PENTOFROST A4 Spec Sheet Toyota (2005+) Lexus (2005+) Scion (2005+)
Now the dates are 2005+, but only for the pre-diluted product.
Additionally, the data Sheet shows "Toyota, Lexus, Scion 00272-SLLC2".

So what's the real difference between their A1 and A4 products (other than one comes with 50% water already added [but not subtracted from the price]) ? Turns out that the difference also applies to the Toyota/Lexus products as well as Pentofrost products: We must be very careful when choosing between the pre-mixed and the undiluted versions of the product based on the vehicle's year of manufacture. Here's exactly why, as nicely detailed at bobtheoilguy's site : https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...ed_long_life_&

I think the takeaway here is that whether one choses to use the Pentafrost product, or the product from the Toyota/Lexus dealer, do you own due diligence and make absolutely sure that you take home the correct version of anti-freeze for your specific model year.

Btw, today I went back to my original post in these threads and added, "3/18/2017 Important Update: There are two versions of red/pink antifreeze available. The exact type for your Lexus/Toyota depends on whether it is 2004 or older, or 2005 and newer. Please see the posts latest posts by sktn77a and myself that begin on 3/17/2017). End 3/17/2017 Update"

Thanks again for bringing up the the fact that there's a (CRITICAL) difference in what's available for Toyota/Lexus antifreezes (regardless of whose product you purchase).

As always, your comments, suggestions, etc are always welcome.

Regards . . .