beenthere

First-time poster here, so everyone take it easy.

I own a 2008 RX-350, and I just bought a 2001 RX-300 for my teenage daughter. The RX-300 shows 107k miles on the odometer. I bought it from a used car dealer who bought it at auction in Orlando.

Just brought it into my Lexus dealership, and Lexus' records show the car as having 342k miles in July of 2009. The records are 8 pages long and show that the car was maintained every 5k miles for 6 years at least. The recorded odometer readings are all consistent with a car that was driven to the ends of the world, but taken care of.

The car is in great shape. There isn't a dent or scratch on the car, the interior leather looks good (for an 11 year old car), and it drives great (as far as I can tell).

So, the person I bought the car from is going to give me a full refund and has been honest and above-board to deal with. He has offered to fax me the bill of sale showing the odometer reading when he bought the car. I believe he was defrauded.

My question is ... I'm still having a hard time believing that this car probably has over 400k miles on it. Even if the odometer was switched out, is there anywhere else in the car that that the odometer reading is recorded? Curiousity is really driving my question. Any ideas?

Thanks.

99rx

iTrader: (6)

No other place that I know of. The gauge cluster was probably swapped out for some reason with a lower mileage to sell it at an auction. Are you still going to keep the car?
P.S. How much did you pay for it? If you don't mind me asking.

beenthere

No, I'm not. My daughter, husband and I all love the car (and the exterior is indigo pearl, which seems to be hard to find -- at least in FL), but I don't think I can have her driving a car with 400k miles. This probably doesn't make sense to anyone who knows a lot about cars, but I don't have enough confidence to keep the car.

I paid $9400. The person I bought it from said he'd be happy to renegotiate the price, but I'm going to give it back to him for a full refund. I guess I was hoping someone would have an explanation for a mistake in the Lexus records!

99rx

iTrader: (6)

That doesn't sound like a mistake. Sounds like they replaced the cluster for some reason. That is a decent price if it had that kind of mileage. That indigo pearl is a beautiful color. I wish ours was that color. It's absolutely my favorite. Hopefully someone else on here may have a better explanation on your mileage issue...

hypervish

X2, doesn't sound like a mistake.

I guess it's good to hear that a 400k mile RX300 drives excellent, and that it can be passed off as one with 107k miles. < that's gotta say something about how well they are built.

Hope you find another RX300 that you like!
Post pictures of this one, I'm interested in seeing how it looks after that many miles. My uncle has a 99' RX300 with about 380k miles, and it look's pretty good, hard to tell that it has that many miles.

mckellyb

I'm glad you didn't get stuck with it, but at the same time, when I told my wife in 2004, she'd better make certain she wanted the 2002 we were about to buy, color and all, 'cause it was an easy half-million mile car, and that it may be the last one she owns, I wasn't incorrect in my assessment of the build quality.

Stemmer

What a wild story! Great first post. Well, as others have said, it's great to hear that your RX 300 is rolling with probably 400k as I'm over 200k and wonder about how long it can last. I also agree that if you really like it and are happy with it, it's up to you on whether to void the deal or keep it. I just wonder how long the engine will last...

beenthere

It certainly is a crazy story. While it could have ended worse, we are still out about $500 for the two new tires we put on the car and the two new keys we ordered. The Husky floor liners arrived today, and I'm not looking forward to paying the shipping to send them back.

The last mileage shown on the CarFax was 102,000 back in 2004. The CarFax also shows only 2 prior owners before me, with the second owner purchasing the car in 2004. Doesn't that point to the second owner as the one who had the odometer changed or is it more complicated than that? If the car was traded in and bounced from dealer to dealer, would the car be retitled each time?

It's probably doesn't take much to fool my husband and I about the condition of a car, but the person we bought the car from has over 30 years in the auto business and drives a 2003 RX300 (with 120k miles on it, I believe). He is stunned because this car is in slightly better condition than his own.

In any event, that 400k mark seems attainable. Good luck!

JAB

Have you run a Carfax on the VIN? With all that routine dealer servicing it should enable you to pinpoint the time when the odo was changed.

Raoul

They must have swapped out the driver's seat as well. No way a seat can have a butt in it for 400k and you couldn't tell.

I deliver dealership auto parts. When we sell a cluster we get the old one back along with VIN & mileage and it's recorded. The buyer then gets a $400 credit for returning the core. Even if they don't return the old one (which looks suspicious itself) we record the VIN, mileage provided and the purchaser who then remains on record if there is fraud.

Sometimes mileage discrepancy is just shadetree mechanics making something roadworthy from a junker.

But, hiding hundreds of thousands of miles through the cluster and probably the seats is fraud and a crime was committed.
Your seller who's been in the business 30 years knows this and that's why he has to make it right.

beenthere

Raoul - You're right that a serious crime was committed, but I don't think the person who sold the car to me was the one who switched out the cluster. He has a bill of sale showing the low odometer reading when he purchased the car at auction. Plus, he knows that my husband is an attorney and heads up the US Attorney's Office (civil) here, so it would be a pretty bold move to knowingly sell us a car with a tampered odometer. I guess anything is possible, though.

I did a general internet search yesterday, and saw that the car was being sold at a salvage auction awhile back. (I couldn't see the whole listing even when I tried to pull up the cache.) This salvage auction sells real junkers, so I guess there isn't much of a market for a car with 400k+ miles and that's where they end up. My guess is that the person who bought the car from the salvage auction switched out the cluster, probably made some upgrades to the car, and then sold the car at the Orlando auction. Unfortunately, we will never know.

code58

Oh Yea! Especially when it went through any licensed dealer he has to have that information recorded. Forensics on that train of ownership would definitely reveal who the culprit is. The law takes a very dim view of odometer fraud. There was a time when it was rampant, especially accross state lines. Extremely tough to get away with now and I wouldn't want to sitting in the sweat box and having to answer the "questions" on that day!
If it shows as being sold at a salvage auction it should have also had a salvage title. There are some ways that it might not end up with one, but that would be exceedingly rare. I'm always leary of anything that is from another state and especially from several states over and sold through an auction. Most wholesale auctions are considered "Dumping Grounds". Kind of like burying burying you dead and hoping no one finds out. Most dealers are saying "make this go away, far, far away".

BTW, I can't answer for Lexus, but many newer vehicles have the mileage in the PCM also, so even if the cluster is changed, the dealer and for certain the state auto fraud division should be able with ease to pull the mileage from there as it cannot be changed without putting a used PCM in and then it probably would have to be programmed by a dealer.