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change brake pads/fluid for single track day?

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Old 08-30-10, 07:55 PM   #1
elm3c
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Default change brake pads/fluid for single track day?

I'm planning on attending a track day at Laguna Seca mid-September, but I'm definitely new to HPDE. I did a one day session in a B5 Audi S4 at Thunderhill about 7-8 years ago, but that's the extent of my experience.

I saw lobuxracer's great post about track essentials: http://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-f...d-to-know.html, but lobux has done a lot more track days, and I wasn't sure if the comments about brakes were as applicable to a newbie.

My question is whether I need to change the brake pads and/or fluid for just a one day session? And I probably won't be going that fast, as the walls at LS have me a tad nervous...

I do remember experiencing quite a bit of brake fade by the end of my day at Thunderhill, but the stock B5 S4 brakes were known to be a weaker point. Are the stock Brembo's on the IS-F up to the task?

Also, I only have about 3k miles on the clock, so I haven't had my first oil change. Should I change the oil before the event, or right after? Or would a track event be too much stress on the engine with so few miles?

Thanks, everyone!
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Old 08-30-10, 08:12 PM   #2
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Change your pads and bleed the brakes. The OEM pads are not up to taking you from full speed off the corkscrew to the 90 degree turn onto the front straight. They'll cook and fade. Save yourself a lot of grief and get racing pads. I run Carbotech XP-12s in front and XP-10s in the rear. You'll be glad you did.

The last thing you want to happen is to push the pedal to the floor at the bottom of the hill when you need to make the turn onto the front straight. At least at the end of the front straight there's run off if you can't make the left to the infield turns. No such luck leading onto the front straight.

Have a blast at Laguna Seca, it's an awesome track I'd love to drive - I've only been able to spectate there.
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Old 08-30-10, 08:36 PM   #3
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Change your pads and bleed the brakes. The OEM pads are not up to taking you from full speed off the corkscrew to the 90 degree turn onto the front straight. They'll cook and fade. Save yourself a lot of grief and get racing pads. I run Carbotech XP-12s in front and XP-10s in the rear. You'll be glad you did.

The last thing you want to happen is to push the pedal to the floor at the bottom of the hill when you need to make the turn onto the front straight. At least at the end of the front straight there's run off if you can't make the left to the infield turns. No such luck leading onto the front straight.

Have a blast at Laguna Seca, it's an awesome track I'd love to drive - I've only been able to spectate there.
Thanks Lobux - any online link to the pads and proper sizing? So you would recommend bleeding even when the OEM fluid is so relatively new? Or is that just to swap in the racing fluid too?

Also I won't have time to swap in the pads right before the start of the event, and I have a 2.5-3 hour drive in traffic to/from the track. Will those Carbotechs be okay for the street, or will they take too long to warm up?
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Old 08-30-10, 08:56 PM   #4
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Thanks Lobux - any online link to the pads and proper sizing? So you would recommend bleeding even when the OEM fluid is so relatively new? Or is that just to swap in the racing fluid too?

Also I won't have time to swap in the pads right before the start of the event, and I have a 2.5-3 hour drive in traffic to/from the track. Will those Carbotechs be okay for the street, or will they take too long to warm up?
Pads should be fine for the street as well. Most people who track thier street car have no issues with the brake pads not being up to temp for street driving, and they are pretty much a must have item for the track. If you can replace the fluid, you should. There are some good brands out there. I have heard good stuff about Motul, and I ALWAYS use ATE Blue in my street, dual purpose, and race car.
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Old 08-30-10, 09:37 PM   #5
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I've run XP12/10 on the street - just needed a minor adjustment in my braking habits when cold. ATE blue/ type 200 is a great bang for your buck. Motul, Redline and Castrol SRF cost much MUCH more for that extra performance.
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Old 08-30-10, 11:24 PM   #6
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Awesome - thanks, everyone!
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Old 08-30-10, 11:50 PM   #7
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JUST an FYI the skip barber school uses IS-Fs for there training at LS and they love the Stock setup of the car (including brakes) I spoke with there pro drivers regarding this and they say the car loves the track. But a Bleed and new pads is always a PLUS. I am interested in going to.. its about 5 hrs away.
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Old 08-31-10, 12:43 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by elm3c View Post
Thanks Lobux - any online link to the pads and proper sizing? So you would recommend bleeding even when the OEM fluid is so relatively new? Or is that just to swap in the racing fluid too?

Also I won't have time to swap in the pads right before the start of the event, and I have a 2.5-3 hour drive in traffic to/from the track. Will those Carbotechs be okay for the street, or will they take too long to warm up?
http://www.ctbrakes.com/pads.asp?Make=Lexus

I do the same thing with mine unless I have plenty of time before going out on track. Carbotech's race pads have a much higher initial bite even when cold, so you'll want to be gentle with the pedal for street driving and they typically are a lot noisier than the OEM pads at low speeds/street stops. On the track they're great. Carolina Motorsports Park is particularly hard on brakes - there are four hard braking zones every lap, and a fast lap is sub 2 minutes. Laguna isn't quite as hard, but you do have two hard braking zones close to each other - bottom of the hill and turn 1 at the end of the front straight.

I'm surprised Barber is running the OEM pads. We had another owner here saying the OEM pads didn't do all that well at Autobahn Country Club. I know the OEM pads will melt at CMP - everyone I've talked to about CMP says it's the hardest track in the Southeast for brakes.
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Old 08-31-10, 12:49 PM   #9
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OEM pads suck at the track. If you are in advanced you need a race pad and better brake fluid (Motul/Castrol SRF.) If you are in novice you will be ok with stock pads/fluids. I never track my IS-F anymore. Car is too heavy and a pain to jack. 1/2 roll cage, JRZ susp, and more have been added to my cayman S. However if you get serious with your is-f, track pads and fluid are a must.

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Old 08-31-10, 08:12 PM   #10
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Thanks for the link, lobux - I just hope I can get the pads in time, as the event is in two weeks.

trackdood - perfect, as I'm requesting an instructor and they'll likely source from SB. So, they'll already have experience with the IS-F on track.

teoh - I had an '07 Cayman S but never had a chance to track it. My son was born shortly after we had gotten it, and I never even really had a chance to drive it, so traded it in for the IS-F with only 7500 miles on the odo. The CS would have been ideal of course, but now I have something that is more well rounded for my purposes. I'll probably only hit the track a few times a year at most, but the pad/fluid change sounds like good advice from you all, especially after my experience with fade in the S4.

I've been a passenger on track at LS, in some Z-06's and a Lotus Elise. I pretty excited, but also a bit tentative because of the walls and the corkscrew, so I'll be taking it relatively easy!
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Old 08-31-10, 09:05 PM   #11
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Have fun! It doesn't matter if you go fast or slow as long as you have a good time and drive your own undamaged car home.

Oh, yeah, if you can take pics or shoot videos, DO IT!
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Old 08-31-10, 09:33 PM   #12
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I used XP12 / XP8... because that's what they had for Rears... I've used Carbotech on my real race cars... 8's or above will be fine for the rear. I also didn't bleed or change fluids, just swapped out pads... and pedal feel was great!

Go have fun!

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Old 09-01-10, 10:40 AM   #13
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I just ordered some Carbotech RP2 (new enduro compound that is supposed to last 2-3x longer than the XP12, but slightly harder on the rotor) for the front and XP8 for the rear, but just saw something on the Carbotech site:

"If you have had another manufacturers brake pads on those same rotors; then you will ABSOLUTELY have to replace or resurface (turn) those rotors before installing the Carbotech brake pads."

I was planning on swapping between the stock pads for the street and the Carbotechs for the track, but keeping the same rotors. For those of you running the Carbotechs, has this been an issue for you?
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Old 09-01-10, 01:12 PM   #14
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I swapped back and forth with no issues! That's probably for the most optimum performance... in race conditions. You'll be perfectly fine!

Congrats!!!

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Old 09-02-10, 11:37 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elm3c View Post
I just ordered some Carbotech RP2 (new enduro compound that is supposed to last 2-3x longer than the XP12, but slightly harder on the rotor) for the front and XP8 for the rear, but just saw something on the Carbotech site:

"If you have had another manufacturers brake pads on those same rotors; then you will ABSOLUTELY have to replace or resurface (turn) those rotors before installing the Carbotech brake pads."

I was planning on swapping between the stock pads for the street and the Carbotechs for the track, but keeping the same rotors. For those of you running the Carbotechs, has this been an issue for you?
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Originally Posted by SCCAForums View Post
I swapped back and forth with no issues! That's probably for the most optimum performance... in race conditions. You'll be perfectly fine!

Congrats!!!

Dave
Same here. Not sure about the Enduro compound, but for the regular XP series, no problem at all.
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Old 09-02-10, 11:37 AM
 
 
 
 
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