First Track Day - What you NEED to know!
07-21-11, 01:52 PM
#61
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So been considering doing a track day lately as I would really love to learn about the car more and get some instruction. However you mention about needing to service the breaks a lot and that worries me as it is something I have never done in the past. I take it I couldn't make it through a track day without doing anything about the brakes then?
Only starting to look into things now but hoping to maybe do one this fall sometime.
Only starting to look into things now but hoping to maybe do one this fall sometime.
None of this is difficult. It's even easier if you buy Earl's Solo Bleeders - they make bleeding the brakes dead simple.
07-22-11, 07:23 PM
#62
Lobuxracer,
Thanks for the post! This confirms what I have thought all along: That being that the IS F is a great and fun track car. You, sir are in the minority of owners who will actually do this and realize the true potential of this fine machine. I feel that the IS F is really underrated by many. I know from experience that it surprises many with its speed and agility. The amazing thing about the IS F is that it does not reqiure trailoring to or from the track. I'm 54 now but I am looking into AAA insurance courses that may allow me to drive the F as it was designed to be driven. Thanks for all the tips too. All the best, Stratman
Thanks for the post! This confirms what I have thought all along: That being that the IS F is a great and fun track car. You, sir are in the minority of owners who will actually do this and realize the true potential of this fine machine. I feel that the IS F is really underrated by many. I know from experience that it surprises many with its speed and agility. The amazing thing about the IS F is that it does not reqiure trailoring to or from the track. I'm 54 now but I am looking into AAA insurance courses that may allow me to drive the F as it was designed to be driven. Thanks for all the tips too. All the best, Stratman
08-01-11, 05:58 AM
#63
Great post, excellent information. I attended Drivers Edge @ Motor Sports Ranch (Cresson, TX) weekend of July 30 - 31. My first time at any event. My bone stock, (unless window tint is a modification), 08 served me quite well. I had 16,000 on the od when I arrived for the event. Two days, eight driving sessions, CCW on the 1.7. Still have tread and pads. IS required nothing; but, 2 tanks of fuel. Ran in "D" with "Sport" on. Counter intuitively sessions ran with "VSC" off were better according to instructor and to me they felt better. Run group had M3s, GTRs, Vettes, 911s, G35, Camry, Minis, Lotus, IS-f. Go do an event. You don't have to abuse yourself or your car to have a great time and learn alot.
08-02-11, 07:22 PM
#64
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Did I read that he thought he went faster because his old temp was a bar lower and he never got lap times?
Congrats on first track day either way!
Next time look at lap times, makes things interesting!
Congrats on first track day either way!
Next time look at lap times, makes things interesting!
08-02-11, 08:23 PM
#65
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If you want lap times, go racing. That's what lap times are for.
08-03-11, 08:08 AM
#67
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CMP probably in October with Tarheel Sportscar Club/Triangle Z. If you're in Charlotte, we could probably meet up before that to cover the basics.
08-11-11, 10:58 AM
#68
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Good info re' a track day or as the call it at Nelsons Ledges near Cleveland a fun day.I have been three times in my 2011 and it is exhilarating.A tip I would add re' instruters is to try and chose one who drives a 4 dr sedan .I took out an Elan driver and all he did was say holy cow this thing is fast.The best I have been out with was an M3 guy but even he said that the ISF can take lines he can not hold.When you are solo in the beginner group you are king because the ISF is easy to drive fast .I was passing 911s and Corvettes.
10-03-11, 07:44 AM
#69
Thanks for all the info in this thread; taking my car to Road America in a few weeks for a track event. Decided I would drive the F over the NSX as this will be my first time on track and I can focus on learning the corners vs corners and shift points. Anyone have any experience in the F at RA?
11-07-11, 06:36 PM
#71
HPDE 1 at Summit Point Nov 5-6
I didn't want to start a new thread as this one has some great information to share.
My good friends that I've known since elementary school who are also car fanatics (their cars included in the pic below) invited me to join them in their second HPDE 1 event. I was reluctant, but they finally convinced me and boy did I have fun! The event included (3) twenty minute sessions each on both Saturday and Sunday.
Car mods:
(SIKKY Headers, Borla Exhaust, BC Coilovers/corner balanced, Michelin PS2 tires.)
The instructor was very impressed with how much speed I could get on the straights. I was hitting several mph more than his stock IS-F. He also commented on how neutral the car felt at which point I told him the car had coil-overs and had been corner balanced. This track event reassured me that the mods i've done so far have truly made a difference.
Driver mods:
(Dragster) This is what my instructor called me most of the time. He asked me what experience I had on the track and I told him I've only been on the straights.
In preparation for the 6 session event, I read this thread, contacted a few people and decided that my car was good enough as is. Well the car certainly was good enough, but with going into the event with just over 50% front pad remaining I wish I had installed new pads prior to going, but live and learn I suppose.
So I am ready to start my first session and this older asian guy comes up to me and asks if I'm James. I said yes and he jumped in my car.
He then quickly introduced himself as Raymond Lee, also has an IS-F, gives me this headset thing that fits inside the helmet so we can communicate during the session, adjusts the passenger side mirror so he can watch traffic without having to lean too much and we were off. The first lap around the track was obviously slow so that we newbs could learn the course and after the yellow flags were removed the pace picked up rather quickly. Long story short I quickly realized I knew absolutely nothing! That of course changed over the weekend and I am amazed at how much I learned over the 6 sessions. Not only did I learn about tracking a car, but I also learned things that will greatly benefit me on the open road such as looking ahead, getting a feel for hard braking, observing others, etc.
Lobux has some really good information in the first post of this thread, but I wanted to add what I experienced which was a little different.
I asked the instructor if he wanted me to disable VSC and he said absolutely not. Some background on the instructor. He pretty much does this instructor thing full time now that he is retired. Drives his IS-F in about 90 sessions a year and just loves everything about tracking and instructing.
To show me how well the car does with VSC on I rode along with him on one of his HPDE 4 sessions. Not once did the brakes overheat and he was keeping up and passing dedicated race cars that I never imagined the IS-F could compete with. Mostly being track prepped Corvettes.
Stock pads and rotors were fine for me even after doing several 145 mph threshold stops. The instructor was very happy with the OEM brake setup, but opts to use Carbotech 10 pads up front and 8's in the rear since they are a tad more aggressive than the OEM pads and because they are cheaper. I asked him about running the 12's up front and he said they are too aggressive and could lead to lock ups resulting in flat spots on the tires. 
Couldn't agree more. This car is an impressive right off the showroom floor. 
Oh and one more thing that I thought was funny. During my exit briefing with the instructor. He said "for a Dragster you sure have come a long way"
Wide open out of turn 10 onto the main straight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vYMqnMvHBI
My good friends that I've known since elementary school who are also car fanatics (their cars included in the pic below) invited me to join them in their second HPDE 1 event. I was reluctant, but they finally convinced me and boy did I have fun! The event included (3) twenty minute sessions each on both Saturday and Sunday.
Car mods:
(SIKKY Headers, Borla Exhaust, BC Coilovers/corner balanced, Michelin PS2 tires.)
The instructor was very impressed with how much speed I could get on the straights. I was hitting several mph more than his stock IS-F. He also commented on how neutral the car felt at which point I told him the car had coil-overs and had been corner balanced. This track event reassured me that the mods i've done so far have truly made a difference.
Driver mods:
(Dragster) This is what my instructor called me most of the time. He asked me what experience I had on the track and I told him I've only been on the straights.
In preparation for the 6 session event, I read this thread, contacted a few people and decided that my car was good enough as is. Well the car certainly was good enough, but with going into the event with just over 50% front pad remaining I wish I had installed new pads prior to going, but live and learn I suppose.
So I am ready to start my first session and this older asian guy comes up to me and asks if I'm James. I said yes and he jumped in my car.
He then quickly introduced himself as Raymond Lee, also has an IS-F, gives me this headset thing that fits inside the helmet so we can communicate during the session, adjusts the passenger side mirror so he can watch traffic without having to lean too much and we were off. The first lap around the track was obviously slow so that we newbs could learn the course and after the yellow flags were removed the pace picked up rather quickly. Long story short I quickly realized I knew absolutely nothing! That of course changed over the weekend and I am amazed at how much I learned over the 6 sessions. Not only did I learn about tracking a car, but I also learned things that will greatly benefit me on the open road such as looking ahead, getting a feel for hard braking, observing others, etc. Lobux has some really good information in the first post of this thread, but I wanted to add what I experienced which was a little different.
Once you get your instructor in the car and you're ready to get out on the track - TURN OFF THE VSC!!!! You're learning to drive the car, not compensate for the nannies, so turn them off. Also, when you start getting some speed up, the nannies will be persistently flashing at you which means they're hitting the brakes on the car. This means your brakes will overheat (AMHIK) and you'll be entering a slow turn off a fast turn, step on the pedal and have it sink almost to the floor. Again, AMHIK. When you cook the highest temperature rated pads the manufacturer makes, it's pretty clear the brakes aren't getting sufficient opportunity to cool. This was the case at CMP, and I lost my brakes 20 minutes into the fourth half hour session. The pads were bleach white and the paint on the rotor hats was blistering.
I asked the instructor if he wanted me to disable VSC and he said absolutely not. Some background on the instructor. He pretty much does this instructor thing full time now that he is retired. Drives his IS-F in about 90 sessions a year and just loves everything about tracking and instructing.
To show me how well the car does with VSC on I rode along with him on one of his HPDE 4 sessions. Not once did the brakes overheat and he was keeping up and passing dedicated race cars that I never imagined the IS-F could compete with. Mostly being track prepped Corvettes.
3. You will absolutely want REAL track pads. I ran Carbotech XP12's in the front and XP10's in the rear. The fronts got hotter than hell itself, but the rears hardly did any work at all. I'll explain more about this later. The F is a heavy car and it's going to use a LOT of pad in the front.
I hate to say it, but you guys who think you can drive fast on the street are sadly mistaken, and only taking the F for 1/4 mile runs is a shame for such a capable car. I ran bone stock, down to the air filter, and had no trouble passing LOTS of slower drivers - I was also able to stick with the sole GTR there driving onto the back straight into the kink. The F is VERY predictable, and even with low air pressure in the front, it puts in a respectable showing.!
Oh and one more thing that I thought was funny. During my exit briefing with the instructor. He said "for a Dragster you sure have come a long way"
Wide open out of turn 10 onto the main straight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vYMqnMvHBI
Last edited by caymandive; 11-09-11 at 02:39 PM.
11-07-11, 06:48 PM
#72
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Great adds! I think I've actually introduced myself to Raymond... he instructed either at a BMW or PCA event at VIR and I asked him if he'd coach one of our members if they came to the next event in an IS-F. He's from NJ, right?
Last edited by caymandive; 11-07-11 at 06:55 PM.
11-08-11, 04:53 AM
#74
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If you call Carbotech, they'll recommend XP12s for CMP. Not sure about Summit, but I've never had any trouble with XP12s at CMP. It doesn't sound like Raymond has run these pads on his F -they don't lock the wheels or flat spot the tires even with ABS engaged. The other thing to keep in mind, experienced faster drivers are usually easier on their equipment than new drivers - see next paragraph.
AFA VSC, if you're a good driver already, you won't have a problem. If you're not, you'll be way deeper into the throttle than the car can handle with VSC taking up the slack. I was flat footing all the way through 13 at CMP with VSC on and lost the pads on the fourth 30 minute session going into the slowest turn on the track. The next day with it off, I could not go over 1/2 throttle in the same place without the car getting twitchy, and this is still true today. Had I known this, I could have avoided killing my brakes on Saturday. I'm sure now I could drive with it on and not have an issue, but if you're like me and hammer down hard (from my bike racing days) you really will benefit from turning it off to see where the real limits are.
The other VSC related issue I had was turn 3. With it on, I could not get the car where I wanted it. I was either 3 feet from the gator or 1 foot into it. Again, this is no doubt my inexperience showing, but just illustrated to me I do much better without having to learn how to drive the VSC and the car together. If I had much more experience, this would not be an issue as my understanding of what the car is doing would be innate, not on the steep part of the learning curve.
I've lost brakes racing bikes before (from a bad habit I had to break), and few things in life get your attention as quickly as heading into a slow turn with way more speed than you have brake. So I'm very skeptical of OEM brakes for track duty, and not willing to assume the risk of them melting.
AFA VSC, if you're a good driver already, you won't have a problem. If you're not, you'll be way deeper into the throttle than the car can handle with VSC taking up the slack. I was flat footing all the way through 13 at CMP with VSC on and lost the pads on the fourth 30 minute session going into the slowest turn on the track. The next day with it off, I could not go over 1/2 throttle in the same place without the car getting twitchy, and this is still true today. Had I known this, I could have avoided killing my brakes on Saturday. I'm sure now I could drive with it on and not have an issue, but if you're like me and hammer down hard (from my bike racing days) you really will benefit from turning it off to see where the real limits are.
The other VSC related issue I had was turn 3. With it on, I could not get the car where I wanted it. I was either 3 feet from the gator or 1 foot into it. Again, this is no doubt my inexperience showing, but just illustrated to me I do much better without having to learn how to drive the VSC and the car together. If I had much more experience, this would not be an issue as my understanding of what the car is doing would be innate, not on the steep part of the learning curve.
I've lost brakes racing bikes before (from a bad habit I had to break), and few things in life get your attention as quickly as heading into a slow turn with way more speed than you have brake. So I'm very skeptical of OEM brakes for track duty, and not willing to assume the risk of them melting.
Last edited by lobuxracer; 11-08-11 at 04:59 AM.
11-08-11, 05:24 AM
#75
If you call Carbotech, they'll recommend XP12s for CMP. Not sure about Summit, but I've never had any trouble with XP12s at CMP. It doesn't sound like Raymond has run these pads on his F -they don't lock the wheels or flat spot the tires even with ABS engaged. The other thing to keep in mind, experienced faster drivers are usually easier on their equipment than new drivers - see next paragraph.
AFA VSC, if you're a good driver already, you won't have a problem. If you're not, you'll be way deeper into the throttle than the car can handle with VSC taking up the slack. I was flat footing all the way through 13 at CMP with VSC on and lost the pads on the fourth 30 minute session going into the slowest turn on the track. The next day with it off, I could not go over 1/2 throttle in the same place without the car getting twitchy, and this is still true today. Had I known this, I could have avoided killing my brakes on Saturday. I'm sure now I could drive with it on and not have an issue, but if you're like me and hammer down hard (from my bike racing days) you really will benefit from turning it off to see where the real limits are.
The other VSC related issue I had was turn 3. With it on, I could not get the car where I wanted it. I was either 3 feet from the gator or 1 foot into it. Again, this is no doubt my inexperience showing, but just illustrated to me I do much better without having to learn how to drive the VSC and the car together. If I had much more experience, this would not be an issue as my understanding of what the car is doing would be innate, not on the steep part of the learning curve.
I've lost brakes racing bikes before (from a bad habit I had to break), and few things in life get your attention as quickly as heading into a slow turn with way more speed than you have brake. So I'm very skeptical of OEM brakes for track duty, and not willing to assume the risk of them melting.
AFA VSC, if you're a good driver already, you won't have a problem. If you're not, you'll be way deeper into the throttle than the car can handle with VSC taking up the slack. I was flat footing all the way through 13 at CMP with VSC on and lost the pads on the fourth 30 minute session going into the slowest turn on the track. The next day with it off, I could not go over 1/2 throttle in the same place without the car getting twitchy, and this is still true today. Had I known this, I could have avoided killing my brakes on Saturday. I'm sure now I could drive with it on and not have an issue, but if you're like me and hammer down hard (from my bike racing days) you really will benefit from turning it off to see where the real limits are.
The other VSC related issue I had was turn 3. With it on, I could not get the car where I wanted it. I was either 3 feet from the gator or 1 foot into it. Again, this is no doubt my inexperience showing, but just illustrated to me I do much better without having to learn how to drive the VSC and the car together. If I had much more experience, this would not be an issue as my understanding of what the car is doing would be innate, not on the steep part of the learning curve.
I've lost brakes racing bikes before (from a bad habit I had to break), and few things in life get your attention as quickly as heading into a slow turn with way more speed than you have brake. So I'm very skeptical of OEM brakes for track duty, and not willing to assume the risk of them melting.
As far as the pads, I don't know if Ray had ever tried the XP12's or not, but he sure was a fan of the 10's. Summit Point in comparison to CMP doesn't seem to be as hard on the brakes, but as you thought, turn 1 was pretty tough on them with how much speed needs scrubbed off from the fast straight leading into it. Had this been CMP, I'm sure I would have lost more pad material than I did. I actually had new OEM pads on hand, but with one session remaining and only and hour and half to get them swapped out, I was out of luck. The brakes were too hot to work on and I also forgot to bring some mechanics gloves.
Lance, do you know the discard thickness for the rotors? Before I do another pad job, I want to make sure the rotors have some life left in them. Ray also suggested using the Raybestos rotors as an alternative to the more expensive OEM brembos. Any insight on that brand? The Raybestos can be picked up for $109 each from Rockauto.com.
Last edited by caymandive; 11-08-11 at 07:22 AM.