Go Back   Club Lexus Forums > Lexus Special Interest Forums > Lexus Motorsports and Racing > Road Course and Auto-X
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?

First Track Day - What you NEED to know!

Reply
 
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-21-11, 02:52 PM   #61
lobuxracer
Tech Info Resource
Trader Score: (2)
 
lobuxracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Georgia
Posts: 13,804
Send a message via Skype™ to lobuxracer
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WReuroR View Post
So been considering doing a track day lately as I would really love to learn about the car more and get some instruction. However you mention about needing to service the breaks a lot and that worries me as it is something I have never done in the past. I take it I couldn't make it through a track day without doing anything about the brakes then?

Only starting to look into things now but hoping to maybe do one this fall sometime.
If you don't service the brakes, they may break for some reason. That said, if you have a fluid flush done the week before your track event, you'll likely be fine. Most track drivers know how to bleed their brakes because they tend to get hot and bleeding them keeps the pedal solid after the fluid gets hot and some of the trapped gases get boiled out of the fluid. Bleeding also gets the oxidized fluid out of the calipers (the fluid will oxidize from the heat of using the brakes hard at the track). You'll also need to change the pads if you're running a track like Road Atlanta or Carolina Motorsports Park because they're both going to use the brakes pretty hard. CMP has a reputation for being the hardest track in the Southeast for brakes.

None of this is difficult. It's even easier if you buy Earl's Solo Bleeders - they make bleeding the brakes dead simple.
This ad is not displayed to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on Club Lexus!
__________________

'08 USE20L−FEZRHA Obsidian
'93 JZA80L-ALFVZA Alpine Silver

Most performance mods need a watch and timed course to demonstrate actual improvement. Few deliver the advertised claims. Many are actually worse than stock. The best performance mods are made to the driver.

Emotional arguments - They're not just for chicks anymore.
lobuxracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-11, 08:23 PM   #62
stratman
Rookie
Trader Score: (0)
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 68
Default

Lobuxracer,
Thanks for the post! This confirms what I have thought all along: That being that the IS F is a great and fun track car. You, sir are in the minority of owners who will actually do this and realize the true potential of this fine machine. I feel that the IS F is really underrated by many. I know from experience that it surprises many with its speed and agility. The amazing thing about the IS F is that it does not reqiure trailoring to or from the track. I'm 54 now but I am looking into AAA insurance courses that may allow me to drive the F as it was designed to be driven. Thanks for all the tips too. All the best, Stratman
stratman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-11, 06:58 AM   #63
BretTravis
Driver School Candidate
Trader Score: (0)
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: OK
Posts: 3
Default

Great post, excellent information. I attended Drivers Edge @ Motor Sports Ranch (Cresson, TX) weekend of July 30 - 31. My first time at any event. My bone stock, (unless window tint is a modification), 08 served me quite well. I had 16,000 on the od when I arrived for the event. Two days, eight driving sessions, CCW on the 1.7. Still have tread and pads. IS required nothing; but, 2 tanks of fuel. Ran in "D" with "Sport" on. Counter intuitively sessions ran with "VSC" off were better according to instructor and to me they felt better. Run group had M3s, GTRs, Vettes, 911s, G35, Camry, Minis, Lotus, IS-f. Go do an event. You don't have to abuse yourself or your car to have a great time and learn alot.
BretTravis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-11, 08:22 PM   #64
hydralisk
Driver
Trader Score: (0)
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tx
Posts: 173
Default

Did I read that he thought he went faster because his old temp was a bar lower and he never got lap times?
Congrats on first track day either way!
Next time look at lap times, makes things interesting!
hydralisk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-11, 09:23 PM   #65
lobuxracer
Tech Info Resource
Trader Score: (2)
 
lobuxracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Georgia
Posts: 13,804
Send a message via Skype™ to lobuxracer
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hydralisk View Post
Did I read that he thought he went faster because his old temp was a bar lower and he never got lap times?
Congrats on first track day either way!
Next time look at lap times, makes things interesting!
Lap times don't mean jack at an HPDE. They don't make anything "interesting" unless you're there to try and prove something to someone who doesn't know what HPDE means.

If you want lap times, go racing. That's what lap times are for.
__________________

'08 USE20L−FEZRHA Obsidian
'93 JZA80L-ALFVZA Alpine Silver

Most performance mods need a watch and timed course to demonstrate actual improvement. Few deliver the advertised claims. Many are actually worse than stock. The best performance mods are made to the driver.

Emotional arguments - They're not just for chicks anymore.
lobuxracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-11, 06:16 AM   #66
WReuroR
Lead Lap
Trader Score: (3)
 
WReuroR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 561
Default

Lobux you planning on doing any track events this fall at either Road Atlanta or Carolina Motorsports Park? I am just North of Charlotte and would love to head to a track event my first time with someone that has done a couple before.
__________________
2008 Lexus IS-F (Ultrasonic Blue)
ISSForged Spyders 20x9F & 20x11R / ISSForged Track Exhaust / BC Racing Coilovers / ThinkDesign Interior Carbon Pieces / Branew CF Lip Kit
2004 Acura TSX (CGP)
Click for Original Build - Click for 2012 Rebuild after Accident - Click to check out Super Street February 2011 Feature
WReuroR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-11, 09:08 AM   #67
lobuxracer
Tech Info Resource
Trader Score: (2)
 
lobuxracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Georgia
Posts: 13,804
Send a message via Skype™ to lobuxracer
Default

CMP probably in October with Tarheel Sportscar Club/Triangle Z. If you're in Charlotte, we could probably meet up before that to cover the basics.
__________________

'08 USE20L−FEZRHA Obsidian
'93 JZA80L-ALFVZA Alpine Silver

Most performance mods need a watch and timed course to demonstrate actual improvement. Few deliver the advertised claims. Many are actually worse than stock. The best performance mods are made to the driver.

Emotional arguments - They're not just for chicks anymore.
lobuxracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-11, 11:58 AM   #68
wcory15
Driver School Candidate
Trader Score: (0)
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: ohio
Posts: 13
Default

Good info re' a track day or as the call it at Nelsons Ledges near Cleveland a fun day.I have been three times in my 2011 and it is exhilarating.A tip I would add re' instruters is to try and chose one who drives a 4 dr sedan .I took out an Elan driver and all he did was say holy cow this thing is fast.The best I have been out with was an M3 guy but even he said that the ISF can take lines he can not hold.When you are solo in the beginner group you are king because the ISF is easy to drive fast .I was passing 911s and Corvettes.
wcory15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-11, 08:44 AM   #69
F1nALMSfan
Pole Position
Trader Score: (0)
 
F1nALMSfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: WI
Posts: 233
Default

Thanks for all the info in this thread; taking my car to Road America in a few weeks for a track event. Decided I would drive the F over the NSX as this will be my first time on track and I can focus on learning the corners vs corners and shift points. Anyone have any experience in the F at RA?
F1nALMSfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-11, 11:44 PM   #70
freeflight
Driver
Trader Score: (0)
 
freeflight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 131
Default

Nice info, thanks.
__________________
2010 Lexus IS 250C, F-sport intake, F-Sport exhaust, F-sport sway bars, Sport pedal
2004 Toyota 4 Runner 4WD
freeflight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-11, 07:36 PM   #71
caymandive
11 Second Club
Trader Score: (1)
 
caymandive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: N.Va
Posts: 3,851
Default HPDE 1 at Summit Point Nov 5-6

I didn't want to start a new thread as this one has some great information to share.

My good friends that I've known since elementary school who are also car fanatics (their cars included in the pic below) invited me to join them in their second HPDE 1 event. I was reluctant, but they finally convinced me and boy did I have fun! The event included (3) twenty minute sessions each on both Saturday and Sunday.

Click the image to open in full size.

Car mods:
(SIKKY Headers, Borla Exhaust, BC Coilovers/corner balanced, Michelin PS2 tires.)
The instructor was very impressed with how much speed I could get on the straights. I was hitting several mph more than his stock IS-F. He also commented on how neutral the car felt at which point I told him the car had coil-overs and had been corner balanced. This track event reassured me that the mods i've done so far have truly made a difference.

Driver mods:
(Dragster) This is what my instructor called me most of the time. He asked me what experience I had on the track and I told him I've only been on the straights.

In preparation for the 6 session event, I read this thread, contacted a few people and decided that my car was good enough as is. Well the car certainly was good enough, but with going into the event with just over 50% front pad remaining I wish I had installed new pads prior to going, but live and learn I suppose.

So I am ready to start my first session and this older asian guy comes up to me and asks if I'm James. I said yes and he jumped in my car. He then quickly introduced himself as Raymond Lee, also has an IS-F, gives me this headset thing that fits inside the helmet so we can communicate during the session, adjusts the passenger side mirror so he can watch traffic without having to lean too much and we were off. The first lap around the track was obviously slow so that we newbs could learn the course and after the yellow flags were removed the pace picked up rather quickly. Long story short I quickly realized I knew absolutely nothing! That of course changed over the weekend and I am amazed at how much I learned over the 6 sessions. Not only did I learn about tracking a car, but I also learned things that will greatly benefit me on the open road such as looking ahead, getting a feel for hard braking, observing others, etc.

Lobux has some really good information in the first post of this thread, but I wanted to add what I experienced which was a little different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lobuxracer View Post
Once you get your instructor in the car and you're ready to get out on the track - TURN OFF THE VSC!!!! You're learning to drive the car, not compensate for the nannies, so turn them off. Also, when you start getting some speed up, the nannies will be persistently flashing at you which means they're hitting the brakes on the car. This means your brakes will overheat (AMHIK) and you'll be entering a slow turn off a fast turn, step on the pedal and have it sink almost to the floor. Again, AMHIK. When you cook the highest temperature rated pads the manufacturer makes, it's pretty clear the brakes aren't getting sufficient opportunity to cool. This was the case at CMP, and I lost my brakes 20 minutes into the fourth half hour session. The pads were bleach white and the paint on the rotor hats was blistering.

I asked the instructor if he wanted me to disable VSC and he said absolutely not. Some background on the instructor. He pretty much does this instructor thing full time now that he is retired. Drives his IS-F in about 90 sessions a year and just loves everything about tracking and instructing.

To show me how well the car does with VSC on I rode along with him on one of his HPDE 4 sessions. Not once did the brakes overheat and he was keeping up and passing dedicated race cars that I never imagined the IS-F could compete with. Mostly being track prepped Corvettes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lobuxracer View Post
3. You will absolutely want REAL track pads. I ran Carbotech XP12's in the front and XP10's in the rear. The fronts got hotter than hell itself, but the rears hardly did any work at all. I'll explain more about this later. The F is a heavy car and it's going to use a LOT of pad in the front.
Stock pads and rotors were fine for me even after doing several 145 mph threshold stops. The instructor was very happy with the OEM brake setup, but opts to use Carbotech 10 pads up front and 8's in the rear since they are a tad more aggressive than the OEM pads and because they are cheaper. I asked him about running the 12's up front and he said they are too aggressive and could lead to lock ups resulting in flat spots on the tires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lobuxracer View Post
I hate to say it, but you guys who think you can drive fast on the street are sadly mistaken, and only taking the F for 1/4 mile runs is a shame for such a capable car. I ran bone stock, down to the air filter, and had no trouble passing LOTS of slower drivers - I was also able to stick with the sole GTR there driving onto the back straight into the kink. The F is VERY predictable, and even with low air pressure in the front, it puts in a respectable showing.!
Couldn't agree more. This car is an impressive right off the showroom floor.

Oh and one more thing that I thought was funny. During my exit briefing with the instructor. He said "for a Dragster you sure have come a long way"

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.


Wide open out of turn 10 onto the main straight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vYMqnMvHBI
__________________
08 Ultrasonic Blue IS-F 11.87@119.63mph
Current Mods: SIKKY Headers / Borla Exhaust / BC Racing Coilovers (403whp Dynojet)
06 Prius

Last edited by caymandive; 11-09-11 at 03:39 PM..
caymandive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-11, 07:48 PM   #72
DaveGS4
Forum Administrator
Trader Score: (2)
 
DaveGS4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 26,125
profile.php?id=100001050339562 @DaveGS4 DaveGS4 The Real DaveGS4
Default

Great adds! I think I've actually introduced myself to Raymond... he instructed either at a BMW or PCA event at VIR and I asked him if he'd coach one of our members if they came to the next event in an IS-F. He's from NJ, right?
__________________

*** Click image for team info! ***

LS430 Ultra * PCS * ML * Rear Fridge * Massaging and Reclining Rear Seats * Vaistech SL-I * Coastal Lockpick

Tundra SR5 5.7 and BMW E36 M3/4 track car (wife's)

** Want to put your PC to good use every night?** Click here to join the Club Lexus Folding Team and help find a cure for cancer and other diseases. May the force be with you.

Last edited by caymandive; 11-07-11 at 07:55 PM..
DaveGS4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-11, 07:55 PM   #73
caymandive
11 Second Club
Trader Score: (1)
 
caymandive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: N.Va
Posts: 3,851
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGS4 View Post
Great adds! I think I've actually introduced myself to Raymond... he instructed either at a BMW or PCA event at VIR and I asked him if he'd coach one of our members if they came to the next event in an IS-F. He's from NJ, right?
Yup that would be him. Great guy!
__________________
08 Ultrasonic Blue IS-F 11.87@119.63mph
Current Mods: SIKKY Headers / Borla Exhaust / BC Racing Coilovers (403whp Dynojet)
06 Prius
caymandive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-11, 05:53 AM   #74
lobuxracer
Tech Info Resource
Trader Score: (2)
 
lobuxracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Georgia
Posts: 13,804
Send a message via Skype™ to lobuxracer
Default

If you call Carbotech, they'll recommend XP12s for CMP. Not sure about Summit, but I've never had any trouble with XP12s at CMP. It doesn't sound like Raymond has run these pads on his F -they don't lock the wheels or flat spot the tires even with ABS engaged. The other thing to keep in mind, experienced faster drivers are usually easier on their equipment than new drivers - see next paragraph.

AFA VSC, if you're a good driver already, you won't have a problem. If you're not, you'll be way deeper into the throttle than the car can handle with VSC taking up the slack. I was flat footing all the way through 13 at CMP with VSC on and lost the pads on the fourth 30 minute session going into the slowest turn on the track. The next day with it off, I could not go over 1/2 throttle in the same place without the car getting twitchy, and this is still true today. Had I known this, I could have avoided killing my brakes on Saturday. I'm sure now I could drive with it on and not have an issue, but if you're like me and hammer down hard (from my bike racing days) you really will benefit from turning it off to see where the real limits are.

The other VSC related issue I had was turn 3. With it on, I could not get the car where I wanted it. I was either 3 feet from the gator or 1 foot into it. Again, this is no doubt my inexperience showing, but just illustrated to me I do much better without having to learn how to drive the VSC and the car together. If I had much more experience, this would not be an issue as my understanding of what the car is doing would be innate, not on the steep part of the learning curve.

I've lost brakes racing bikes before (from a bad habit I had to break), and few things in life get your attention as quickly as heading into a slow turn with way more speed than you have brake. So I'm very skeptical of OEM brakes for track duty, and not willing to assume the risk of them melting.
__________________

'08 USE20L−FEZRHA Obsidian
'93 JZA80L-ALFVZA Alpine Silver

Most performance mods need a watch and timed course to demonstrate actual improvement. Few deliver the advertised claims. Many are actually worse than stock. The best performance mods are made to the driver.

Emotional arguments - They're not just for chicks anymore.

Last edited by lobuxracer; 11-08-11 at 05:59 AM..
lobuxracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-11, 06:24 AM   #75
caymandive
11 Second Club
Trader Score: (1)
 
caymandive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: N.Va
Posts: 3,851
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lobuxracer View Post
If you call Carbotech, they'll recommend XP12s for CMP. Not sure about Summit, but I've never had any trouble with XP12s at CMP. It doesn't sound like Raymond has run these pads on his F -they don't lock the wheels or flat spot the tires even with ABS engaged. The other thing to keep in mind, experienced faster drivers are usually easier on their equipment than new drivers - see next paragraph.

AFA VSC, if you're a good driver already, you won't have a problem. If you're not, you'll be way deeper into the throttle than the car can handle with VSC taking up the slack. I was flat footing all the way through 13 at CMP with VSC on and lost the pads on the fourth 30 minute session going into the slowest turn on the track. The next day with it off, I could not go over 1/2 throttle in the same place without the car getting twitchy, and this is still true today. Had I known this, I could have avoided killing my brakes on Saturday. I'm sure now I could drive with it on and not have an issue, but if you're like me and hammer down hard (from my bike racing days) you really will benefit from turning it off to see where the real limits are.

The other VSC related issue I had was turn 3. With it on, I could not get the car where I wanted it. I was either 3 feet from the gator or 1 foot into it. Again, this is no doubt my inexperience showing, but just illustrated to me I do much better without having to learn how to drive the VSC and the car together. If I had much more experience, this would not be an issue as my understanding of what the car is doing would be innate, not on the steep part of the learning curve.

I've lost brakes racing bikes before (from a bad habit I had to break), and few things in life get your attention as quickly as heading into a slow turn with way more speed than you have brake. So I'm very skeptical of OEM brakes for track duty, and not willing to assume the risk of them melting.
Great info there Lance. As far as the pads, I don't know if Ray had ever tried the XP12's or not, but he sure was a fan of the 10's.

Summit Point in comparison to CMP doesn't seem to be as hard on the brakes, but as you thought, turn 1 was pretty tough on them with how much speed needs scrubbed off from the fast straight leading into it. Had this been CMP, I'm sure I would have lost more pad material than I did. I actually had new OEM pads on hand, but with one session remaining and only and hour and half to get them swapped out, I was out of luck. The brakes were too hot to work on and I also forgot to bring some mechanics gloves.

Lance, do you know the discard thickness for the rotors? Before I do another pad job, I want to make sure the rotors have some life left in them. Ray also suggested using the Raybestos rotors as an alternative to the more expensive OEM brembos. Any insight on that brand? The Raybestos can be picked up for $109 each from Rockauto.com.
__________________
08 Ultrasonic Blue IS-F 11.87@119.63mph
Current Mods: SIKKY Headers / Borla Exhaust / BC Racing Coilovers (403whp Dynojet)
06 Prius

Last edited by caymandive; 11-08-11 at 08:22 AM..
caymandive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-11, 06:24 AM
 
 
 
 
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Brakes 101 - Class is in session! Murco Suspension and Brakes 61 10-19-14 05:40 PM
Earl's Solo-Bleed for IS-F lobuxracer IS F 16 03-03-14 02:01 AM
Get Maximum Stopping Power with Hawk Brake Pads, SS lines and Brembo Fluid! CircuitMS Club Lexus Vendor Marketplace 16 07-19-09 11:44 AM
R&R Rear caliper and Pads and more llcoolpass ES300 and ES330 2 12-11-07 10:43 PM
Supra Twin Turbo BRAKES Swap... edgy Suspension and Brakes 15 05-18-04 01:02 PM


Tags
350, blue, club, continental, day, dw, extremecontact, georgia, hpde, is350, lexus, noob, setup, tape, things, track, trackday

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:40 AM.

Join ClubLexus
Advertising


Copyright © 2000-2008 Internet Brands, Inc. All Rights Reserved
Privacy Policy | Disclaimer | Terms of Use | JOBS


Get all contact info