RCF TVD and Torsen Owners Impressions and Knowledge Thread
03-24-15, 10:19 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
RCF TVD and Torsen Owners Impressions and Knowledge Thread
For starters, if you are looking for an array of hard metrics, keep going. This is, at least at this point, an impressions thread, and I hope that other TVD owners will chime in.
I have labeled this the RCF TVD and Torsen Owners Impressions and Knowledge Thread because there are two RCFs—the torsen and the torque vectoring—and, IMO, the two cars handle differently in many respects. You will need to formulate an opinion as to which car is right for you. Both cars offer exceptional driving experiences. For the record, I only logged 45 minutes in the RCF torsen.
ISF001 Week 1—I picked up the car on a sunny day and was anxious to get it on the road. Before hitting the road, I spent a couple of hours with the sales person running through the electronics, syncing my Smartphone and getting the Lexus Enform App Suite and Lexus Enform Remote (very slick) running. With the exception of not being able to get OpenTable to work, everything went quite smoothly with the setup.
I then headed out to get a feel for the car. My first impression is that the RCF is not anything like my ISF. Editor comparisons, IMO, have been based on their superficial knowledge of both cars.
The improved tranny is faster, smoother and more cooperative on downshift in the automatic mode. I have yet to spend adequate time exploring the manual mode, but here too the tranny seems to be quite responsive and does not hesitate to take the driver’s commands. I need to explore this much more at higher speeds on open roads. While some of the reviews b_tched about downshifting a low speeds, this too simply relates to a lack of knowledge in driving the F cars. At 50-55 in 7th, you can easily drop 2-3 gears at a time by pulling and holding the metal (not plastic) paddle shifters for a split second. Another pull will drop another 1-2 gears, depending upon how slow you were driving. I find myself not getting out of 3 or 4th gear in most of my town driving. I did not by the F car to snail around in eco mode in 8th gear. Non-drivers—those who do not want to work the gears— should pass on the RCF, IMO.
The rear of the car is impressive. The TVD will transform even the most inexperienced drivers into a rockstar when it comes to high-speed cornering. Tight jugs at 60+ are a piece of cake, and 90-degree turns that would otherwise result in slip cornering maneuvers, are executed by the RCF as if it were on rails. Exiting the corner is almost as impressive as taking it as speed given the torque transfer to the outside wheel on exit. While the RCF is stiffer than my prior ISF, the ride is more comfortable.
The new V8 is a beautiful piece of engineering. The engine develops torque sooner and revs higher, and this enters into the driving equation from the get go—even for amateurs like me. Power delivery is immediate and sustained. I am still limiting my revs to no more than 6,000 rpm with 173 miles on the car, but it’s enough to feel the car thrust you back into the seat when you shift from 1st to 2nd gear. Of course, like all F cars, we are in triple digits at the blink of an eye, and it happens so effortlessly.
The electronics are formidable at first. Buttons, touch pad, switches, customized this, customized that…but after a little play I found myself setting into the new interfaces. The touchpad is actually easy to use. The first thing that I recommend you do is adjust the sensitivity of the pad. After making adjustments, I was able to easily navigate the various screen options, select music, etc. And yes…the music. The new Mark Levinson is impressive, offers very low distortion at higher volume, and is what I had hoped I would have gotten in my 2012 ISF. Unfortunately, the earlier system did not have the power and dynamic range of the new system in the RCF. The new ML is outstanding, IMO, and I highly recommend the investment if you are an audio enthusiasts.
But, the best sound in the RCF is clearly the engine. I like the sound of the car in standard, sport, and sport+. The enhanced sound in sport+ is quite an experience and tends to make high speed driving on highways a blast.
There is nothing really technical here. These are some of my first impressions with many more to come.
I hope others will add to the thread and share in their impressions. This will result in shared knowledge.
I have labeled this the RCF TVD and Torsen Owners Impressions and Knowledge Thread because there are two RCFs—the torsen and the torque vectoring—and, IMO, the two cars handle differently in many respects. You will need to formulate an opinion as to which car is right for you. Both cars offer exceptional driving experiences. For the record, I only logged 45 minutes in the RCF torsen.
ISF001 Week 1—I picked up the car on a sunny day and was anxious to get it on the road. Before hitting the road, I spent a couple of hours with the sales person running through the electronics, syncing my Smartphone and getting the Lexus Enform App Suite and Lexus Enform Remote (very slick) running. With the exception of not being able to get OpenTable to work, everything went quite smoothly with the setup.
I then headed out to get a feel for the car. My first impression is that the RCF is not anything like my ISF. Editor comparisons, IMO, have been based on their superficial knowledge of both cars.
The improved tranny is faster, smoother and more cooperative on downshift in the automatic mode. I have yet to spend adequate time exploring the manual mode, but here too the tranny seems to be quite responsive and does not hesitate to take the driver’s commands. I need to explore this much more at higher speeds on open roads. While some of the reviews b_tched about downshifting a low speeds, this too simply relates to a lack of knowledge in driving the F cars. At 50-55 in 7th, you can easily drop 2-3 gears at a time by pulling and holding the metal (not plastic) paddle shifters for a split second. Another pull will drop another 1-2 gears, depending upon how slow you were driving. I find myself not getting out of 3 or 4th gear in most of my town driving. I did not by the F car to snail around in eco mode in 8th gear. Non-drivers—those who do not want to work the gears— should pass on the RCF, IMO.
The rear of the car is impressive. The TVD will transform even the most inexperienced drivers into a rockstar when it comes to high-speed cornering. Tight jugs at 60+ are a piece of cake, and 90-degree turns that would otherwise result in slip cornering maneuvers, are executed by the RCF as if it were on rails. Exiting the corner is almost as impressive as taking it as speed given the torque transfer to the outside wheel on exit. While the RCF is stiffer than my prior ISF, the ride is more comfortable.
The new V8 is a beautiful piece of engineering. The engine develops torque sooner and revs higher, and this enters into the driving equation from the get go—even for amateurs like me. Power delivery is immediate and sustained. I am still limiting my revs to no more than 6,000 rpm with 173 miles on the car, but it’s enough to feel the car thrust you back into the seat when you shift from 1st to 2nd gear. Of course, like all F cars, we are in triple digits at the blink of an eye, and it happens so effortlessly.
The electronics are formidable at first. Buttons, touch pad, switches, customized this, customized that…but after a little play I found myself setting into the new interfaces. The touchpad is actually easy to use. The first thing that I recommend you do is adjust the sensitivity of the pad. After making adjustments, I was able to easily navigate the various screen options, select music, etc. And yes…the music. The new Mark Levinson is impressive, offers very low distortion at higher volume, and is what I had hoped I would have gotten in my 2012 ISF. Unfortunately, the earlier system did not have the power and dynamic range of the new system in the RCF. The new ML is outstanding, IMO, and I highly recommend the investment if you are an audio enthusiasts.
But, the best sound in the RCF is clearly the engine. I like the sound of the car in standard, sport, and sport+. The enhanced sound in sport+ is quite an experience and tends to make high speed driving on highways a blast.
There is nothing really technical here. These are some of my first impressions with many more to come.
I hope others will add to the thread and share in their impressions. This will result in shared knowledge.
03-24-15, 10:48 AM
#2
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Alright I'll bite...
I "inherited" my wife's 08 ISF, and that car was awesome, obviously. We recently traded that in for the RC-F TVD, and it really does feel like a different car. The ISF was a sleeper sedan -- subtle to the common eye, but a secret beast when you pushed it. This car though looks, feels, and acts the part of sports car more IMO, from the styling, to the lower-set seats, etc. Some people like the "secretness" of the ISF, and I'm inclined to feel that way sometimes too. But the RCF, from the outside and the inside, definitely lets you know what's up. That can be cool too.
Not to do an ISF/RCF comparison, and I haven't actually driven the Torsen dif, but the TVD is awesome. The car feels really planted (partly due to the stiffer chassis and lower CG I bet?), and very controlled going into and out of corners. I've taken onramps quick enough that I feel the blood rush to my brain before I feel concerned that the car is gonna slip or get off line. I'm sure you can slide the rear end if you want, but I haven't been on the track yet so I'd like to keep those rear wheels behind me, and the TVD does a great job I think at keeping things tucked away better than I deserve. I haven't really stressed the car's cornering, and especially to really compare the different TVD modes, but subjectively speaking it feels really solid and gives me a lot of confidence.
I agree that the tranny and suspension are really smooth when you want them to be, but the powertrain still has plenty of heat (especially in sport/sport+) to get you smiling. In normal D mode, there is occasionally the slightest bit of hesitation when mashing the throttle from cruising and the tranny goes from like 8th@1800rpm to 4th@5000rpm, but it doesn't really bother me too much and that goes away in the sportier modes.
Just broke 1k miles, and looking forward to putting more time in it.
I "inherited" my wife's 08 ISF, and that car was awesome, obviously. We recently traded that in for the RC-F TVD, and it really does feel like a different car. The ISF was a sleeper sedan -- subtle to the common eye, but a secret beast when you pushed it. This car though looks, feels, and acts the part of sports car more IMO, from the styling, to the lower-set seats, etc. Some people like the "secretness" of the ISF, and I'm inclined to feel that way sometimes too. But the RCF, from the outside and the inside, definitely lets you know what's up. That can be cool too.
Not to do an ISF/RCF comparison, and I haven't actually driven the Torsen dif, but the TVD is awesome. The car feels really planted (partly due to the stiffer chassis and lower CG I bet?), and very controlled going into and out of corners. I've taken onramps quick enough that I feel the blood rush to my brain before I feel concerned that the car is gonna slip or get off line. I'm sure you can slide the rear end if you want, but I haven't been on the track yet so I'd like to keep those rear wheels behind me, and the TVD does a great job I think at keeping things tucked away better than I deserve. I haven't really stressed the car's cornering, and especially to really compare the different TVD modes, but subjectively speaking it feels really solid and gives me a lot of confidence.
I agree that the tranny and suspension are really smooth when you want them to be, but the powertrain still has plenty of heat (especially in sport/sport+) to get you smiling. In normal D mode, there is occasionally the slightest bit of hesitation when mashing the throttle from cruising and the tranny goes from like 8th@1800rpm to 4th@5000rpm, but it doesn't really bother me too much and that goes away in the sportier modes.
Just broke 1k miles, and looking forward to putting more time in it.
03-24-15, 11:03 AM
#3
It is a great DD car. It corners with ease even at 60+ mph. Just make sure to keep an eye on the speedometer, it won't take much for the car to hit triple digits. I have to use the GPS app a few times just to verify the speedometer was indeed displaying correctly. So far it is the best all around balanced car I ever had.
03-24-15, 11:40 AM
#4
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I don't have much to add but I will say disabling the flashing Eco green badge in the steering wheel settings has improved "normal" mode throttle response significantly. I believe this disables the otto/atkinson switching feature of the engine which I find useless in normal mode. If I'm really trying to conserve, I'll go into the actual "eco mode" but when in normal mode I don't want to necessarily be forced to save fuel and cut cylinders.
This has made sport mode kind of superfluous though, and I find myself flicking twice to go directly to sport+. Makes me think they should have just made the "sport mode" normal and "sport+" the sport mode
As for the TVD, I haven't driven the torsen version of the car extensively but it does indeed feel planted. I test drove a normal torsen RCF during my purchase and that felt also very stable. I suspect the TVD difference will show only at the very limit of grip on a track. Torsen is fine for the driver that will only drive on the street. But the TVD also is that extra performance/safety net and doesn't detract at all, despite the 60lb weight penalty.
This has made sport mode kind of superfluous though, and I find myself flicking twice to go directly to sport+. Makes me think they should have just made the "sport mode" normal and "sport+" the sport mode
As for the TVD, I haven't driven the torsen version of the car extensively but it does indeed feel planted. I test drove a normal torsen RCF during my purchase and that felt also very stable. I suspect the TVD difference will show only at the very limit of grip on a track. Torsen is fine for the driver that will only drive on the street. But the TVD also is that extra performance/safety net and doesn't detract at all, despite the 60lb weight penalty.
Last edited by 6i9; 03-24-15 at 11:45 AM.
03-24-15, 07:17 PM
#7
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
I checked the owners manual and you may be right. I am going to check with the master technician at my dealership and see what he says. Thanks
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03-25-15, 04:43 AM
#9
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
The responsiveness is progressively improved as we move from normal into sport and then sport+. In either of these modes, the tranny steps down extremely quickly, i.e., at town traffic speeds, either by a sustained pull or rapid fire pulls of the paddle.
I just do not enjoy driving in normal mode as control is relinquished more to the logic of the car.
I also noticed the redline will drop when the car is cold and move up to max as the RC F achieves ideal operating temperature. I believe the other morning an alarm went off when I inadvertently got close to the lowered redline during the early morning drive with a cold engine. I like this feature.
03-25-15, 10:56 AM
#10
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Dialing in The Right Amount of Oversteer with the TVD
While there has been some mention in reviews about slight understeer at times with the RCF, I have found in limited testing (my own) that you can dial in the desirable amount of oversteer into the equation on demanding corners by working the pedal.
This, IMO, has virtually enabled the driver to create a highly stable car. Upon exit, the car will nicely thrust you out of the corner as if you were Niki Lauda behind the wheel.
The car flatters most drivers.
This, IMO, has virtually enabled the driver to create a highly stable car. Upon exit, the car will nicely thrust you out of the corner as if you were Niki Lauda behind the wheel.
The car flatters most drivers.
03-25-15, 11:39 AM
#11
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The flashing Eco light may be in other Lexus vehicles and represent something different, but in my RCF, disabling the Flashing Eco light through the steering wheel/dash settings has definitely improved throttle response. It's still not as sharp as the Sport+ mode, but I did notice a difference, especially moving off the line at stop lights (normal w eco light vs normal w/o eco light enabled). With the Eco symbol enabled in normal mode I noticed increased throttle travel to actually get the car moving. Putting the car in actual Eco mode (with the mode dial) is even more so
Maybe it doesn't disable the otto/atkinson but I think there is a throttle map change as far as I can tell from switching back and forth
FWIW, in the 3IS loaner car I had for a weekend I noticed I couldn't turn off the flashing eco mode... someone can correct me if there is a way to, but being able to disable that light in the RCF settings has to mean something.
Maybe it doesn't disable the otto/atkinson but I think there is a throttle map change as far as I can tell from switching back and forth
FWIW, in the 3IS loaner car I had for a weekend I noticed I couldn't turn off the flashing eco mode... someone can correct me if there is a way to, but being able to disable that light in the RCF settings has to mean something.
Last edited by 6i9; 03-25-15 at 11:43 AM.
03-25-15, 01:21 PM
#12
While there has been some mention in reviews about slight understeer at times with the RCF, I have found in limited testing (my own) that you can dial in the desirable amount of oversteer into the equation on demanding corners by working the pedal.
This, IMO, has virtually enabled the driver to create a highly stable car. Upon exit, the car will nicely thrust you out of the corner as if you were Niki Lauda behind the wheel.
The car flatters most drivers.
This, IMO, has virtually enabled the driver to create a highly stable car. Upon exit, the car will nicely thrust you out of the corner as if you were Niki Lauda behind the wheel.
The car flatters most drivers.
03-25-15, 01:55 PM
#13
Lexus Champion
Yes, you can turn it off on a 3IS. It's just a display setting.
03-25-15, 05:13 PM
#15
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Based on what 6i9 says, there may be a slight remapping when the Eco light is turned off. I need to reset the Eco to off and see how it responds.
Eco is a joke with this car.
Eco is a joke with this car.