RC-F in Top Gear [22x06] March 1st
03-01-15, 08:48 PM
#46
Lexus Test Driver
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Just watched it... wow that was absolutely brutal. It wasn't just the weight.. he hated the driving experience.
You can't fault him or any other anyone else (Me included) for expecting some level of greatness considering the prowess of the LFA. It's been discussed ad nauseam even before the RCF was released. In fact, Lexus were the ones setting those expectations with their pressers and first drives on the track. Unfortunately, now fanboys are making excuses that it didn't live up to the hype. Just read the intro from the RCF press release and tell me that Lexus wanted this car to be a GT cruiser:
It wasn't until all the bad reviews that Lexus backtracked and started touting the car as accessible and for novices.
At the end of the day people will buy what suites them. If more people end up enjoying the RCF because of what it turned out to be, then that's great, but don't pretend that Lexus wanted this all along (Unless their marketing had completely betrayed their engineering).
You can't fault him or any other anyone else (Me included) for expecting some level of greatness considering the prowess of the LFA. It's been discussed ad nauseam even before the RCF was released. In fact, Lexus were the ones setting those expectations with their pressers and first drives on the track. Unfortunately, now fanboys are making excuses that it didn't live up to the hype. Just read the intro from the RCF press release and tell me that Lexus wanted this car to be a GT cruiser:
In 2007, the F brand launched with IS F, a super sedan that catapulted the Lexus brand onto tracks and into driving purists’ hearts with a specially built 416 horsepower V8, track-tuned chassis and street-dominating attitude.
Then came the Lexus LFA, a V10-powered supercar that sent a 552 hp, carbon-fiber shockwave through the world’s top sports car echelon.
Production of both models has ended, but the ripples from their impacts continue, bubbling up through the next F model, the 2015 RC F. The F strikes again.
Then came the Lexus LFA, a V10-powered supercar that sent a 552 hp, carbon-fiber shockwave through the world’s top sports car echelon.
Production of both models has ended, but the ripples from their impacts continue, bubbling up through the next F model, the 2015 RC F. The F strikes again.
At the end of the day people will buy what suites them. If more people end up enjoying the RCF because of what it turned out to be, then that's great, but don't pretend that Lexus wanted this all along (Unless their marketing had completely betrayed their engineering).
03-01-15, 08:53 PM
#47
Pole Position
Said this on another forum so I'm gonna say it here lol
I felt like he was trying too hard to compare the LFA to the RC-F. Yes, they are both F cars. But the LFA is a limited edition supercar that cost 400 grand (and even at that price, Lexus still lost money for each LFA). The RC-F is a luxury sports coupe that competes against the M4 (and it's cheaper).
I guess what I'm trying to say is, stop comparing the RC-F to the LFA, they are different tiers. Compare the RC-F to the M4 (which I didn't hear him compare to at all, unless I've turned deaf.) But I do agree with him on the weight.
I felt like he was trying too hard to compare the LFA to the RC-F. Yes, they are both F cars. But the LFA is a limited edition supercar that cost 400 grand (and even at that price, Lexus still lost money for each LFA). The RC-F is a luxury sports coupe that competes against the M4 (and it's cheaper).
I guess what I'm trying to say is, stop comparing the RC-F to the LFA, they are different tiers. Compare the RC-F to the M4 (which I didn't hear him compare to at all, unless I've turned deaf.) But I do agree with him on the weight.
03-01-15, 09:32 PM
#49
Lexus Test Driver
03-01-15, 10:37 PM
#50
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I Agree 100% the Marketing department mislead Lexus fans and non Lexus fans or future F owners they were not representing the true facts of the RCF development and what the engineers had in mind.
03-01-15, 11:18 PM
#51
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When the GT86/FRS/BRZ got rave reviews of being a drivers car. You would have to assume that the next sporty car from Toyota/Lexus after the LFA was going to be a wonderful car. But from almost all reviews, its all the same, the weight of the car is hampering what could be a great car.
03-02-15, 12:38 AM
#53
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Previous IS-F owner here. In my mind, the real issue with the RC-F's weight is this: Lexus pays good money to people who are supposed to know what the competition is up to. Lexus should have had an inkling early-on as to where BMW was headed with the M4's power-to-weight, knew exactly where MB was going with the C63, and that the compromised Frankenstein RC chassis simply couldn't get it done against either. The only way *this* car should be this heavy is if it was sporting AWD, but it isn't. And it sure as hell isn't packing the horsepower/torque to compensate (or overcompensate, see: Hellcat). The looks are another massive can of worms.
I'm sorry, but there's no excuse for any of this considering the development money and engineering talent at Lexus' disposal. It looks suspiciously like a lazy effort, and that's what pisses Jezza (and me) off. They could've done much better, and were demanded to, knowing that the competition wasn't going to take a breather. There's no way I would upgrade from an IS-F, when the only obvious "upgrades" are price and weight.
Edit: I'm curious to know if IS-F owners/fans are enthused at all with the RC-F, or if it's mainly people new to the F models.
I'm sorry, but there's no excuse for any of this considering the development money and engineering talent at Lexus' disposal. It looks suspiciously like a lazy effort, and that's what pisses Jezza (and me) off. They could've done much better, and were demanded to, knowing that the competition wasn't going to take a breather. There's no way I would upgrade from an IS-F, when the only obvious "upgrades" are price and weight.
Edit: I'm curious to know if IS-F owners/fans are enthused at all with the RC-F, or if it's mainly people new to the F models.
Last edited by nuttybar08; 03-02-15 at 03:42 AM.
03-02-15, 02:35 AM
#54
03-02-15, 03:52 AM
#55
Disappointing, but not for the obvious reasons:
Let me add to the list:
Contrived--My great aunt drivers better than what we saw Jeremy do
Intentionally asinine driving
Absurdly ridiculous start/acceleration at the straight-line comparison
And apparently a predestined opinion
"So there you are. It's the Germans who've pick up the baton dropped by Italy and Britain. It's Germany that's making the cars we really want to buy." From a recent Top Gear article.
No real track test to UNDERSTAND and explore the TVD capabilities
On the value scale of reviews in general:
Superficial
Cursory
Pro-Teutonic (from the press of the start button)
Illogical comparison to the LFA
Value: He needs to take a chill pill and DRIVE the F in another episode with the intention of objectively reviewing the new beast.
The martial arts techniques in the beginning of the video were actually realistic and well-done.
They should have used the Samurai sword to slash away the prejudice in this shallow review.
PURE DETARAME (BS in Japanese)
Let me add to the list:Contrived--My great aunt drivers better than what we saw Jeremy do
Intentionally asinine driving
Absurdly ridiculous start/acceleration at the straight-line comparison
And apparently a predestined opinion
"So there you are. It's the Germans who've pick up the baton dropped by Italy and Britain. It's Germany that's making the cars we really want to buy." From a recent Top Gear article.
No real track test to UNDERSTAND and explore the TVD capabilities
On the value scale of reviews in general:
Superficial
Cursory
Pro-Teutonic (from the press of the start button)
Illogical comparison to the LFA
Value: He needs to take a chill pill and DRIVE the F in another episode with the intention of objectively reviewing the new beast.
The martial arts techniques in the beginning of the video were actually realistic and well-done.
They should have used the Samurai sword to slash away the prejudice in this shallow review.
PURE DETARAME (BS in Japanese)
Last edited by ISF001; 03-02-15 at 04:38 AM.
03-02-15, 04:56 AM
#56
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Previous IS-F owner here. In my mind, the real issue with the RC-F's weight is this: Lexus pays good money to people who are supposed to know what the competition is up to. Lexus should have had an inkling early-on as to where BMW was headed with the M4's power-to-weight, knew exactly where MB was going with the C63, and that the compromised Frankenstein RC chassis simply couldn't get it done against either. The only way *this* car should be this heavy is if it was sporting AWD, but it isn't. And it sure as hell isn't packing the horsepower/torque to compensate (or overcompensate, see: Hellcat). The looks are another massive can of worms.
I'm sorry, but there's no excuse for any of this considering the development money and engineering talent at Lexus' disposal. It looks suspiciously like a lazy effort, and that's what pisses Jezza (and me) off. They could've done much better, and were demanded to, knowing that the competition wasn't going to take a breather. There's no way I would upgrade from an IS-F, when the only obvious "upgrades" are price and weight.
Edit: I'm curious to know if IS-F owners/fans are enthused at all with the RC-F, or if it's mainly people new to the F models.
I'm sorry, but there's no excuse for any of this considering the development money and engineering talent at Lexus' disposal. It looks suspiciously like a lazy effort, and that's what pisses Jezza (and me) off. They could've done much better, and were demanded to, knowing that the competition wasn't going to take a breather. There's no way I would upgrade from an IS-F, when the only obvious "upgrades" are price and weight.
Edit: I'm curious to know if IS-F owners/fans are enthused at all with the RC-F, or if it's mainly people new to the F models.
I think he is trying to give Lexus a serious wake up call with this review. Its pretty clear that he has nothing against Lexus a as brand since he apparently loves and praises the LFA and he gave NX a pretty OK review as well.
03-02-15, 05:01 AM
#57
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not for nothing, but the criticism in the review was more or less in line with other reviewers, issue is that Lexus set far higher expectations than the end product, and, when compared to the obvious competitors it comes up short by a great margin.
Where was the market research? benchmarking against the competition? seriously a project like the RCF wold have a development budget in the 100's of millions and the Toyota R&D knowhow at its disposal, and the end product appears to have missed the mark if it truly was intended to compete against the M3 and the C63.
Where was the market research? benchmarking against the competition? seriously a project like the RCF wold have a development budget in the 100's of millions and the Toyota R&D knowhow at its disposal, and the end product appears to have missed the mark if it truly was intended to compete against the M3 and the C63.
03-02-15, 05:02 AM
#58
Wow the review was absolutely scathing. Feel quite bad for Lexus now but having driven the RCF for myself, I can't say I'm altogether surprised, Clarkson has always been one to favour agility and chuckability which sadly isn't the RCF's strong points.
I think Lexus will struggle to move RCF at full sticker price after this, Top Gear has immense following (for better or worse). Those still intent on getting the car should be able to bargain prices down pretty hard.
I think Lexus will struggle to move RCF at full sticker price after this, Top Gear has immense following (for better or worse). Those still intent on getting the car should be able to bargain prices down pretty hard.
03-02-15, 05:26 AM
#59
Wow the review was absolutely scathing. Feel quite bad for Lexus now but having driven the RCF for myself, I can't say I'm altogether surprised, Clarkson has always been one to favour agility and chuckability which sadly isn't the RCF's strong points.
I think Lexus will struggle to move RCF at full sticker price after this, Top Gear has immense following (for better or worse). Those still intent on getting the car should be able to bargain prices down pretty hard.
I think Lexus will struggle to move RCF at full sticker price after this, Top Gear has immense following (for better or worse). Those still intent on getting the car should be able to bargain prices down pretty hard.
I don't feel bad at all. We've been saying the same thing as Clarkson
I know Lexus and they can do better
Pile it on and hopefully someone will get pizzed off enough to not release this same underpowered engine in the GS-F.
03-02-15, 05:47 AM
#60
We KNOW that they have it in them but have been frustrated ever since the 3rd gen GS that they never kept up with the competition. So yes...the RCF and GSF are fantastic cars. But arent quite what they COULD have been. And that's kinda sad.
ESPECIALLY since we obviously want lexus to win!!!
Last edited by DrRick; 03-02-15 at 05:50 AM.
