test-drove the new RC F and M4
12-06-14, 06:09 PM
#47
Lexus Test Driver
Sound frequency is a science and V8 has a very signature sound. There is no grey area. Either it sounds like a V8 or it does not. There is no subjectivity to it. Unless you don't understand how a V8 should sound, there is no "sounds like V8 to him". Simply you don't know how a V8 sounds. I could see the "recorded sounds playing through speakers" inside being similar to a V8 because they are recorded. Outside, no chance!
12-06-14, 06:23 PM
#49
Thanks for injecting some common sense into the thread. People who are swooning over the M4 desperately seem to be doing everything to neutralize the well known advantages RC-F Lexus worked so hard for and they clearly show over the M4.
No matter how many excuses the apologists make, the M4 does sound absolutely horrendous. I have heard it in real life and the tin can raspy sound is abysmal.
I am getting tired of "you want a performance car go with M4, if you want a reliable coupe then get RC-F". No RC-F is a very worthy rival to the M4 and it comes down to preferences of the buyer.
So when people criticize the RC-F, it is called facts and when people criticize the M4, it is called "bashing". Gotcha!
No matter how many excuses the apologists make, the M4 does sound absolutely horrendous. I have heard it in real life and the tin can raspy sound is abysmal.
I am getting tired of "you want a performance car go with M4, if you want a reliable coupe then get RC-F". No RC-F is a very worthy rival to the M4 and it comes down to preferences of the buyer.
So when people criticize the RC-F, it is called facts and when people criticize the M4, it is called "bashing". Gotcha!
12-06-14, 08:05 PM
#52
Sound
There is only one way to settle this.
OP, can you go back and do another round of test drives, only this time bring a Gopro or a friend to record the sound of the RCF and M4. Then post them here so we can listen too.
OP, can you go back and do another round of test drives, only this time bring a Gopro or a friend to record the sound of the RCF and M4. Then post them here so we can listen too.
12-06-14, 08:17 PM
#53
OP are you sure you had the RC-F in sport mode? Experience is noticeably different from the other modes.
The M4 is definitely a beast. You can feel the speed and the nimbleness of the car. The performance between the two aren't large enough for me to make it a factor since I may never take it to the track. I ended up choosing the RC-F because of the looks, quality, and sound of a real V8.
The M4 is fairly conservative looking and the difference in appearance between the M4 and the 435i is marginal. I have to look at the back of the M4 to know for sure it's a M4. Despite the modern things such as the LCD screen, the M4's interior is still designed from the 80's.
The M4 is definitely a beast. You can feel the speed and the nimbleness of the car. The performance between the two aren't large enough for me to make it a factor since I may never take it to the track. I ended up choosing the RC-F because of the looks, quality, and sound of a real V8.
The M4 is fairly conservative looking and the difference in appearance between the M4 and the 435i is marginal. I have to look at the back of the M4 to know for sure it's a M4. Despite the modern things such as the LCD screen, the M4's interior is still designed from the 80's.
12-06-14, 09:29 PM
#54
12-06-14, 10:24 PM
#55
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You just don't give up do you, someone says anything even remotely negative about the RCF you have to post the same response over and over and over and over again to make sure you get the last word in. If I read the right article the RCF did not get a great review from PCOTY test despite your contact there said they were gushing over the car. It didn't even get into the final three and the Mustang did believe it or not. Im a Toyota/ Lexus fan and have been for many years, we have bought 14 of them over the years, but it is really hard having to see your same posts over and over and over again. Lighten up just a little, so reading this forum is enjoyable again.
Back on topic: thank you OP for the honest review.
Back in July I participated in the one-day M performance training portion of the BMW ultimate driving experience event. I spent a good 5 hours in the seat of the M3 and it was definitely a blast to drive. That said, not once did it ever sound like a V8 to me (I have the e92 M3). Every time they started up the car my face just shriveled up and I would let out a very audible "ughhhh" when I heard it.
12-06-14, 10:39 PM
#56
Lexus Test Driver
OMG THANK YOU.
Back on topic: thank you OP for the honest review.
Back in July I participated in the one-day M performance training portion of the BMW ultimate driving experience event. I spent a good 5 hours in the seat of the M3 and it was definitely a blast to drive. That said, not once did it ever sound like a V8 to me (I have the e92 M3). Every time they started up the car my face just shriveled up and I would let out a very audible "ughhhh" when I heard it.
Back on topic: thank you OP for the honest review.
Back in July I participated in the one-day M performance training portion of the BMW ultimate driving experience event. I spent a good 5 hours in the seat of the M3 and it was definitely a blast to drive. That said, not once did it ever sound like a V8 to me (I have the e92 M3). Every time they started up the car my face just shriveled up and I would let out a very audible "ughhhh" when I heard it.
This is exactly what PCOTY Road and track said about the RC-F. He claims R&T did not like the RC-F. Tell me exactly where is R&T criticizing the RC-F? Sounds everything they said about it was positive. The praised everything. Engine's broad powerband, interior quality, suspension's ability to adapt to any type of asphalt condition (something they bitterly criticize about the M4/M3) and max-g grip. What is negative about that?
They liked the RC-F more than they liked the BMW M3 because of its unpredictable power curve and its chassis' inability to handle the sudden changes.
The only thing they disliked was not being able to disengage the traction control, which either was an issue with the prototype (or the detune Lexus put in there) or they simply did not know how to disable it.
The un-American takes on the pony-car formula, the Jaguar F-type R Coupe and the Lexus RC F, should attract the same customer in a similar fashion. Surprisingly, not a single staffer fails to articulate a distinct favorite between the two. On Team Lexus: Kierstein, Webster, and a few others. The interior's laser-cut precision, the undeniable caviar quality of the engine's broad powerband, and the rather astounding ability of the suspension to provide magic-carpet ride and max-g grip in a single package. For others, including myself, the F-type takes it. There's just so much power, so much adjustability at speed ("The rear's on casters!" Cammisa laughs), and did I mention the power? "Sounds so good I felt guilty," Senior Editor John Krewson admits. "I love this car … in small increments," RoadandTrack.com Editorial Director Alex Núñez says.
A similar experience, albeit with better seats and the excellent Mark Levinson stereo, should be available in the Lexus RC F. Unfortunately, it isn't, thanks to a cowardly stability-control computer that never stops nannying and can't be disengaged. The number of ways in which the Lexus will sabotage your lap is legion. I take a rerun, because I initially can't get the car to shift at redline, permit minor slip angles, and/or play Guns N' Roses without warning me that my feelings were at risk. "It won't do a burnout!" Cammisa moans. It also won't permit any of the tomfoolery for which its IS F predecessor was famous.
The M3 is the only car to actually scare me at the Motown Mile. Going around the fast final turn, the torque spikes and sends me into a long, lazy, 100-mph slide that I don't recover until well down the front straight. Forget this being a German Trans Am; it's a German Corvette. "This car is nightmarish to control under power," concurs Cammisa. "It's so much work, and there's no joy to be had as a result." Having driven the M3 before, on a larger track, I suggest that it needs a bigger venue to shine. Cammisa agrees.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 12-06-14 at 10:52 PM.
12-06-14, 10:51 PM
#57
Thanking him for what? For uttering something that is not true? At least, ISF is posting things coming directly from the horse's mouth.
This is exactly what PCOTY Road and track said about the RC-F. He claims R&T did not like the RC-F. Tell me exactly where is R&T criticizing the RC-F? Sounds everything they said about it was positive. The praised everything. Engine's broad powerband, interior quality, suspension's ability to adapt to any type of asphalt condition (something they bitterly criticize about the M4/M3) and max-g grip. What is negative about that?
The only thing they disliked was not being able to disengage the traction control, which either was an issue with the prototype (or the detune Lexus put in there) or they simply did not know how to disable it.
This is exactly what PCOTY Road and track said about the RC-F. He claims R&T did not like the RC-F. Tell me exactly where is R&T criticizing the RC-F? Sounds everything they said about it was positive. The praised everything. Engine's broad powerband, interior quality, suspension's ability to adapt to any type of asphalt condition (something they bitterly criticize about the M4/M3) and max-g grip. What is negative about that?
The only thing they disliked was not being able to disengage the traction control, which either was an issue with the prototype (or the detune Lexus put in there) or they simply did not know how to disable it.
"The lexus, with the windows up, sounds like a 3IS with a nice intake and exhaust, deep and loud and screaming on top end. There isn't much more to it. And with its weight and low torque numbers, it honestly is not much faster than an IS 350. Bottom line is, anyone who cares about these two cars should test-drive them and draw their own conclusions. "
Are you freaking kidding me? No faster than an IS 350?
12-07-14, 12:17 AM
#58
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When the OP said that the M4 sounded like a V8, HE LOST ALL CREDIBILITY IN MY OPINION. I test drove the car myself and upon start up, the M4 sounded like a lawn mower to the point that the BMW sales man got embarrassed. I gave the sales man a ride in my ISF and revved the car for him. The BMW salesman agreed that the V8 in my ISF sounded better than the M4 engine. WHAT more the RC-F! And when the OP said that the M4 sounded great from the inside, does he know that that was artificially produced by the M4? OP, I am not sure what your intentions are regarding this bashing of the RC-F but you are WAY off....
BMW has been building sports cars for decades. They have a lot expertise and really great competitive advantage over many auto manufacturers. Simply look at the weight of M4. It is really light and it is due to extensive use of carbon fiber. They stiffened chassis dramatically. This car is really playful and you joyful to drive compared to RCF. RCF feels heavy and that is especially evident at low RPM. If it were my money, M4 would be my first choice, new C63 is the second, Audi RS5 third and RCF the fourth.
Last edited by salvadorik; 12-07-14 at 12:26 AM.
12-07-14, 12:51 AM
#59
Pole Position
To salvadorik :
The BMW 5 series was the unchallenged sportiest and most fun to drive mid-size luxury sedan until it wasn't (the current L10 4th Generation Lexus GS came along)
The BMW 3 series was the unchallenged sportiest and most fun to drive compact luxury sedan until it wasn't ( the current 3rd Generation Lexus IS came along)
See the pattern?
I would advise you to stop living in the past and start opening your eyes to present reality. A car is only as good as its current incarnation and the current BMWs are actually worse drivers' cars than their equivalent Lexus counterparts.
Yes BMW built class leading drivers' cars IN THE PAST. This is NOW. And Lexus has actually overtaken BMW in the handling stakes.
Live in the past if you must. The realists and those with their eyes open to reality are where Lexus is...
The BMW 5 series was the unchallenged sportiest and most fun to drive mid-size luxury sedan until it wasn't (the current L10 4th Generation Lexus GS came along)
The BMW 3 series was the unchallenged sportiest and most fun to drive compact luxury sedan until it wasn't ( the current 3rd Generation Lexus IS came along)
See the pattern?
I would advise you to stop living in the past and start opening your eyes to present reality. A car is only as good as its current incarnation and the current BMWs are actually worse drivers' cars than their equivalent Lexus counterparts.
Yes BMW built class leading drivers' cars IN THE PAST. This is NOW. And Lexus has actually overtaken BMW in the handling stakes.
Live in the past if you must. The realists and those with their eyes open to reality are where Lexus is...
12-07-14, 12:57 AM
#60
Lexus Test Driver
To support your contention that the OP uttered false statements, this is what he said re the RC-F compared to an IS350!
"The lexus, with the windows up, sounds like a 3IS with a nice intake and exhaust, deep and loud and screaming on top end. There isn't much more to it. And with its weight and low torque numbers, it honestly is not much faster than an IS 350. Bottom line is, anyone who cares about these two cars should test-drive them and draw their own conclusions. "
Are you freaking kidding me? No faster than an IS 350?
"The lexus, with the windows up, sounds like a 3IS with a nice intake and exhaust, deep and loud and screaming on top end. There isn't much more to it. And with its weight and low torque numbers, it honestly is not much faster than an IS 350. Bottom line is, anyone who cares about these two cars should test-drive them and draw their own conclusions. "
Are you freaking kidding me? No faster than an IS 350?
Common sense has definitely left the building.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 12-07-14 at 01:02 AM.