RCF is Faster than the M4 and Audi RS5 on a Closed Track
11-05-14, 09:09 AM
#16
Great find! Hoping for more comparos to come out. MT review showed how evenly matched the two cars are (with a sprinkle of bias towards the M4). What sold me was how composed the rcf was around the track compared to the m4. I don't know about you guys, but I prefer my back not to break or my head not to jolt off my neck during spirited driving. .3 seconds is meaningless to me.
11-05-14, 09:57 AM
#17
Lexus Test Driver
The fact that RC-F stays right with the M4 on the long back straight (Streets of willow track), clearly tells RC-F rolling acceleration is very comparable despite being 400 lbs heavier.
11-09-14, 06:12 AM
#20
Lexus Test Driver
11-09-14, 01:17 PM
#21
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
Sure we can trust Lexus marketing because we know they are worried about going to jail for misrepresenting their product.
Answer just one question - which factory's engineers were present at this test? Who from BMW and Audi made sure their cars were in top form, and the drivers were not "light footed" when their cars were being tested?
Claims are claims. Just like believing there is anything more than physical resemblance between the GT3 RC F and the car the public can buy at Lexus.
11-09-14, 05:15 PM
#22
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
There's no long anything at Streets of Willow. Have you been there? The big track has long straights and top speeds deep into triple digits. Streets is an overgrown autocross. All this speaks to is gearing in this particular speed range.
Sure we can trust Lexus marketing because we know they are worried about going to jail for misrepresenting their product.
Answer just one question - which factory's engineers were present at this test? Who from BMW and Audi made sure their cars were in top form, and the drivers were not "light footed" when their cars were being tested?
Claims are claims. Just like believing there is anything more than physical resemblance between the GT3 RC F and the car the public can buy at Lexus.
Sure we can trust Lexus marketing because we know they are worried about going to jail for misrepresenting their product.
Answer just one question - which factory's engineers were present at this test? Who from BMW and Audi made sure their cars were in top form, and the drivers were not "light footed" when their cars were being tested?
Claims are claims. Just like believing there is anything more than physical resemblance between the GT3 RC F and the car the public can buy at Lexus.
Yaguchi's interviews made it clear that he did not wish to discuss track performance comparisons to the M4. He did not say that it would not run and exceed the M4s capabilities. I can assure you the RCF has been EXTENSIVELY run on the track with the M4 RS5 and beat them enough times to validate this bold statement.
Why the incredulity? We are not taking about inflated numbers by any stretch of the imagination--not with Lexus.
11-09-14, 08:35 PM
#23
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Sure we can trust Lexus marketing because we know they are worried about going to jail for misrepresenting their product.
Answer just one question - which factory's engineers were present at this test? Who from BMW and Audi made sure their cars were in top form, and the drivers were not "light footed" when their cars were being tested?
Answer just one question - which factory's engineers were present at this test? Who from BMW and Audi made sure their cars were in top form, and the drivers were not "light footed" when their cars were being tested?
Frankly, after seeing Pobst's run (on what was likely the same track), it's hardly surprising that an RC-F could beat an M4 around a track with a lesser driver behind the wheel. If Pobst had to work that hard to coax a 0.3s advantage for the M4 (which is evident from the in-car camera), I don't think most drivers would do better than tie the RC-F in a M4 on a road course.
My general takeaway from the video evidence is that the M4 does indeed have higher limits than the RC-F as far as handling goes - but not very many drivers will have the skill level to exploit that advantage.
11-10-14, 07:45 AM
#24
Inside I really want the rcf to be better track car than the M4 but I just don't see it... M4 is much lighter, the tq curve kills the rcf, the m gearbox is dam good and everything I read about both cars says the BMW steering response and turn in are much better than the rcf not to mention hold on average .3 more g on a figure eight. I hate BMW but I just don't see it not winning on a track. As far as a gt car goes you couldn't give me the m4 over the rcf.
11-10-14, 08:18 AM
#25
Inside I really want the rcf to be better track car than the M4 but I just don't see it... M4 is much lighter, the tq curve kills the rcf, the m gearbox is dam good and everything I read about both cars says the BMW steering response and turn in are much better than the rcf not to mention hold on average .3 more g on a figure eight. I hate BMW but I just don't see it not winning on a track. As far as a gt car goes you couldn't give me the m4 over the rcf.
11-10-14, 09:47 AM
#26
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Inside I really want the rcf to be better track car than the M4 but I just don't see it... M4 is much lighter, the tq curve kills the rcf, the m gearbox is dam good and everything I read about both cars says the BMW steering response and turn in are much better than the rcf not to mention hold on average .3 more g on a figure eight. I hate BMW but I just don't see it not winning on a track. As far as a gt car goes you couldn't give me the m4 over the rcf.
Sorry buddy, but that race was WAY to close for anyone to call the M4 a superior track car. The torque on the M4 actually became a problem as demonstrated in the hotlap on corners. It also oversteers like crazy.
It all comes down to time gains and losses on the track. Based on how the driver was almost at times struggling with the M4 to keep in on track and the near identical times for the two cars, I believe with a few laps the RCF would have a commanding lead in a race.
I am surprised to see how it all came together on the track for the RCF. Conventional thinking says the sum of the individual metrics equates to performance. The RCF defies conventional thinking, and I attribute this to the big advantage delivered through the torque vectoring rear differential, the handling on corners, and the racing engine that likes to redline.
11-11-14, 04:29 PM
#27
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
Darbs,
Sorry buddy, but that race was WAY to close for anyone to call the M4 a superior track car. The torque on the M4 actually became a problem as demonstrated in the hotlap on corners. It also oversteers like crazy.
It all comes down to time gains and losses on the track. Based on how the driver was almost at times struggling with the M4 to keep in on track and the near identical times for the two cars, I believe with a few laps the RCF would have a commanding lead in a race.
I am surprised to see how it all came together on the track for the RCF. Conventional thinking says the sum of the individual metrics equates to performance. The RCF defies conventional thinking, and I attribute this to the big advantage delivered through the torque vectoring rear differential, the handling on corners, and the racing engine that likes to redline.
Sorry buddy, but that race was WAY to close for anyone to call the M4 a superior track car. The torque on the M4 actually became a problem as demonstrated in the hotlap on corners. It also oversteers like crazy.
It all comes down to time gains and losses on the track. Based on how the driver was almost at times struggling with the M4 to keep in on track and the near identical times for the two cars, I believe with a few laps the RCF would have a commanding lead in a race.
I am surprised to see how it all came together on the track for the RCF. Conventional thinking says the sum of the individual metrics equates to performance. The RCF defies conventional thinking, and I attribute this to the big advantage delivered through the torque vectoring rear differential, the handling on corners, and the racing engine that likes to redline.
I've spent a bit of track time in the F. I know what it does well and what it doesn't do well. It is a fun drive for a heavy sedan capable of getting groceries. It does not hold a candle to even an E36 M3 with a mild race prep on the track. Been there, done that, had to point it by. No illusions here, I can see pretty clearly what the RC F is - a two door IS F intended to wow people who are not too serious about performance.
I will be much more interested to see what they do to the GT3 version to make it competitive.
11-11-14, 04:34 PM
#28
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
And my bet is, if they'd used the big track, the M4 would have beat the RC F by 3 seconds easy. Streets is an overgrown autocross. Maybe I missed something, but I watched the whole video, and the RC F lost in every measured metric. It won in the audible sound category. Pobst says the suspension is too soft and the body roll is excessive - this is typical for Lexus - soft front springs to ensure the car understeers. In fact, if you go through the New Car Features book, you'll see a dozen different things Lexus did to ensure the car understeers, so there isn't even a simple fix.
I've spent a bit of track time in the F. I know what it does well and what it doesn't do well. It is a fun drive for a heavy sedan capable of getting groceries. It does not hold a candle to even an E36 M3 with a mild race prep on the track. Been there, done that, had to point it by. No illusions here, I can see pretty clearly what the RC F is - a two door IS F intended to wow people who are not too serious about performance.
I will be much more interested to see what they do to the GT3 version to make it competitive.
I've spent a bit of track time in the F. I know what it does well and what it doesn't do well. It is a fun drive for a heavy sedan capable of getting groceries. It does not hold a candle to even an E36 M3 with a mild race prep on the track. Been there, done that, had to point it by. No illusions here, I can see pretty clearly what the RC F is - a two door IS F intended to wow people who are not too serious about performance.
I will be much more interested to see what they do to the GT3 version to make it competitive.
With all due respect, This discussion is inane and needs to be settled on the track in March. For now, We should just give it up.
11-11-14, 04:42 PM
#29
.3 sec behind an M4 that weighs 400# less and had carbon ceramic brakes on Streets of Willow isnt convincing enough? I knew the M wil be a better track car how much much better? I certain didnt expect it to be that close. Look how difficult the M was to drive at the limit in the Head 2 Head video
11-11-14, 04:47 PM
#30
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
And low and behold....it actually matched the 0-60 time of a 3.9 of the M4 with Road and Track's driver.