SW17LS

But you'll still be driving a used Scion tC. The question is are you just buying a car to "embarrass" other cars at the track? If thats the case why would you buy An RC-F, M4, or any of these cars?

The VAST majority of owners will never even set foot on a track, and the reviews I've read and watched all seem to point to the idea that the car becomes a whole lot more impressive once you get it on the road and off the track. Seeing that I've been driving a car for nearly 20 years and I have driven precisely zero laps around a track in my own vehicle...on road performance is much more interesting to me than track performance.

And...you have complaints about the LFA. Have you driven an LFA?!?

Some guy drives it around a track twice and makes a YouTube video and everybody jumps ship. Some brand enthusiasts

Do you really expect the press to give the car a fair shake? Have they ever given anything without a German marque a fair shake? Maybe the M4 beats it on a track...but what about where we all will be driving the car, on the road? I've not driven an M4 but I've driven M3s and wouldn't be interested in purchasing one.

rayaans

Couldnt have said it myself. Ive always thought of the IS-F as an everyday sports car. Something which you can drive everyday and enjoy. The RC-F is the same. Its a practical, everyday sports car that doesnt give you piles on the road.

KevinGS

It's Lexus. It's rare that the wheel/tire combo will have the offsets I will want. So yes, I'm already planning for new shoes that will hopefully have the perfect offsets I want, but if not, then yes, spacers. I need those wheeled pushed out a tad further than what Lexus is normally comfortable with.

Again, I don't track my car, so I don't need maximum 10/10 performance, so whatever minor handling precision I lose because the offsets are different from the factory, I won't even notice. Race car driver I am not.

Exactly

Good question and good point.

Yep. My Mazda RX7 and my 300ZX Twin Turbo were laughable on a track, but on the road, I squeezed so much fun out of them that I was constantly smiling. It was the entire experience that awed myself and many that road shotgun with me. My 1985 RX7 so light and tossable, I could do amazing maneuvers that were still safe, and it had enough power to scoot from here to there (and the SOUNDs the engine made were legendary all the way to the 7000 RPM redline...which was pretty high back then). Endless enjoyment.

My TT 300ZX, with an aftermarket sound system and t-tops, it was the epitome of a moving experience. It was fast enough, sat fairly low, the aftermarket exhaust accompanied the engine perfectly, and it could turn any summer night into pure magic.

Driving is about the experience. I don't buy my car to race everyone at the traffic light, or for that rare moment on the highway when you approach a Vette or an M3 and you two look at each other, give the sign, and then race off down the highway for a few minutes. Oh, those are fun too. But I'm not in the market for a "sleeper", surprising people how fast the car is. I'm in the market for the long haul, the complete experience of a wonderful driving experience, mile after a mile, even when I've set the cruise control and I'm just heading to Point B.

And reliability and durability is always a concern for me for any car I purchase. I want to be able to jump in my car and drive anywhere on a whim, without a shadow of a doubt. My RX7 finally called it quits with 250,000 miles. My Z, 320,000 miles (original turbos still in tact). My 2001 GS? 230,000 miles and counting, and I would still hop in it today and drive it across country if I had the time.

THAT's why I buy Lexuses (yet lease other vehicles).

So I give Lexus for what they've created. It does everything I want it to do. This was never meant to be a Supra replacement, obviously since Toyota's already considering that as we speak. It's a Lexus, so it's a premium built GT, and I'm soooooooooo glad it has a V8.

gs400jon

I find it peculiar that people here will even mention a Chrysler product. YUK! I am sure that Lexus could have built a car that satisfies all of you who are only interested in having the lightest, overpowered brute but that would not be very attractive to the likes of me that wants the RC F offering. I think there will be more like me than you and that's why Lexus built this car the way it is.

KevinGS

Yep, I agree. They could put 1000 factory HP in that Hellcat (or in a Viper for that matter), and I still wouldn't even consider it based on the interior, exterior and the historical build quality alone. If I just wanted the fastest thing on the street with the most horsepower, I would buy a used Mustang or Vette and mod the hell out of it. You can purchase well-kept $20,000 Mustangs (their vaules plummet after 3 years), spend $25k on modifications and rule the drag strip and the stoplights for many years to come. I live near a race track, and regularly see street-legal 10-second 1/4 mile Mustangs. And for me, that's about how long I'd want to own one, 10 seconds. After that, I'm finished. I don't want to drive it anywhere but the track.

And if I wanted the best handling car, I wouldn't buy a luxury GT either. I'd want something small, nimble and quick.

But since I'm not racing my car at the track, how well it does there in regards to track times and such mean little to me. Track time does show a car's balance and how well it's composed when pushed to the limits, so how well it performs there does hold some weight. But ultimately, I'll always want a car that performs well on the road (and looks the part), as opposed to a car that has impressive track times.

rxonmymind

"The VAST majority of owners will never even set foot on a track, and the reviews I've read and watched all seem to point to the idea that the car becomes a whole lot more impressive once you get it on the road and off the track. Seeing that I've been driving a car for nearly 20 years and I have driven precisely zero laps around a track in my own vehicle...on road performance is much more interesting to me than track performance. "

All this track talk has me laughing. But if I had taken anyone in a 146hp Rx7 verts up hwy 17 banging heal toe and feathering redline between 2&3rd gear with a Porsche right on my *** you would have cared less how little horse power there was. I'll admit that 911 Porsche driver new how to drive and at the end got a huge thumbs up once we reached the top. A nice compliment. Trust me, many of you won't ever treat a car that harsh especially a $60k+ one or put in the time necessary to properly LEARN fully the limits of your vehicles. I'm excited that this car will be a gentleman's vehicle with optional "spirited" drive if you so wish while enjoying the excellent environment.
Besides from my point of view this would NOT be my first pick as a track car. Not by a LONG shipyard mile

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

buy a Z06 if you want a track machine. That car is going to melt your faces on the track

primecut

iTrader: (1)

I don't think anyone is making the point that they are expecting the RC-F to be a track monster and competing with the likes of a C7. (You guys took Lobuxracer's Scion tC comment out of context). What we ARE expecting is for the RC-F to improve upon Lexus' performance car standing amongst competitors, and right now it's not looking like that's the case.

BTW - If you notice, some of the disappointment is coming from actual ISF owners like myself who were pretty much begging Lexus to take our money for the RCF. I even put my F on sale (LMK if you are interested ). We'd know a thing or two about overall package vs. cheap performance. If we wanted track monsters, we wouldn't have bought the ISF.

A bit of a tangent... but:

Here's consistent 11.4s on less than optimal conditions. Trapping at 122mph so you can imagine the times when it traps 125mph

That's a fair point, and build quality/interior would be my main concern as well. With that said, Chrysler (And domestics in general) have made vast improvements recently to catch up in these areas. Let's just say I'm open minded for now

TimboIS

But you're forgetting! it the same journalists driving and writing about the RC as the Lambo or whatever vehicle. That's their job, and probably have a little more clue than the avg buyer. NOT to mention burning up the track at Lexus expense. So they'll be pushing it more than a consumer on a test drive or track.

The RC is what it is. The market will decide now. I don't think BMW is too concerned. Anyone cross shopping won't be swayed from BMW, nor will the Lexus faithful. The RC just isn't the game changer I was hoping for.

lexuz125th

iTrader: (1)

Guy's its not fair that a lot of the reviews give the RC F a bias review based on weight. Looking at it as a whole package it is a steal for the price its offered for. I am sure Lexus could of made it light utilizing carbon fiber, they do have the in house technology to do so. But would you pay close to $100,000 mark for a fully equipped track car. Most likely no, reviews would say get a Z06 instead. Since i bought my ISF I've tracked it over 30 times at one of the most brutal tracks out in NYC (Watkins Glen) and all I change is tires, brakes, and fluids. 6 hour drive there and back. Car runs like a million bucks. Others that are compared to our F stand no chance, constantly braking down and running into multiple issues. I had a professional racing driver, that drives for one of the Ferrari challenge teams say man you drive this car through those SS as fast as these guy's take their Ferrari's, my worry is you got way too much confidence in your car" I just looked at him and smiled.

ISF001

Small minded reviewers focus on tiny things...especially those who lean towards mass produced German cars that fall apart. I posted part of this earlier in another response or thread. It is far from being the heaviest car in the pack--even if it were, it delivers the punch. Car and Driver is another way of saying "Germany."

"The F adds a triangular structural brace in the engine compartment and another behind the rear seat (which in turn eliminates the folding rear seat). It has an aluminum hood and bumper beams, a speed-activated rear wing and an optional carbon-fiber wing and roof panel. At 3,958 pounds, its curb weight slots below the all-wheel-drive RS5 and just above the C63. Its power-to-weight ratio is surpassed only by the much lighter M4." - See more at: http://autoweek.com/article/car-revi....ZBj5H2OI.dpuf

BTW: This is the metal eating RCF destroying the Nurburgring.

gsintensive

Old school poster, been out of Lexus for a while but RCF got my attention. Frankly I am slightly disappointed about the weight issue, but that won't matter until I can get in one and test drive. Honestly if this thing can keep up with M4 it's already a steal. You are getting Lexus legendary reliability and RCF looks like a car from future. With the tri led light it's going turn heads everywhere. My 03 SC430 still runs like new today, that's saying something.

I didn't like redesigned IS first but after seeing it in person I decided to buy it for my sister. It looks even better the longer we've owned it. But since I am coming from IS, the only thing holding me back is the very dated navigation and awkwardly placed cup holders. For the cabin tech I might wait until Lexus updates the entire line in a year or so.

ISF001

I expect to see outrageous performance from skilled RCF drivers as a result of the TVR on the race track. I'm sure times will be quite comparable.

As for the interior, I'd be surprised if they do much to the RCF cabin--I could be mistaken.

As for the weight, I guess we can all go on diets.

jat0223

iTrader: (1)

When the target numbers were released, I got into arguments with some of you here because I said that unless Lexus beat those target numbers by a lot, the RCF wouldn't be that much faster than the ISF if any at all. Unfortunately they didn't beat those numbers by a lot.

I said it back then. The RCF is similar to what the LFA was. It wasn't the fastest, but It was the best driver's car in its segment. I hope at least they succeed in this area.

I believe that those that are hoping that the RFC will put out similar performance to the M4 are in for a disappointment. We'll see if I'm right again when the head to head reviews start coming. But physics are physics and I believe the M4 will have better times.

My biggest disappointment with the RCF is that PERFORMANCE wise, it would practically be a lateral move by ISF owners, who I think are the most likely to get the car. I don't think the RCF will sway many new buyers from other brands because mags will inevitably do comparisons with the M4, and favor the M4. My biggest fear is that because of this the RCF might not get near their target sales and we might not see other F cars come into production. I believe a lot is riding on the RCF.

gs400jon

I prefer coming down off the summit on 17. I embarrassed a BMW 3 series driver several years ago who obviously didn't know the road like I do. I was driving my 2004 GX470 in Sport mode so power and weight meant squat. Too many CHP today.