Anyone else rethinking their order?
09-05-14, 10:05 PM
#31
Liquid Bra Champion
Thread Starter
This whole promotion for press seems to be a disaster with prototypes.
Lexus went about it the wrong way. When I first found out about this event, my first question for JoeZ was "is Scott Pruett going to be there to give people rides around Monticello?" Obviously, that was not the case. Lexus needed to bring Justin Bell and Scott Pruett to truly demonstrate the capabilities of the car.
It does not matter even if they are ex race car drivers. There was a story of pro race car driver Randy Pobst getting scared and intimidated by the LFA's oversteering and tail swinging wildly when he pushed it to its limit to get the 1:36 lap time at Laguna Seca and then Justin Bell took Pobst around Laguna Seca and MT was blown away at how masterfully he controlled the LFA making it dance at his finger tips even at the extreme limits.
Point is, nothing beats having proper seat time behind a car and learning where its limits are and how to control the car at its limits. Lexus needed to have an RC-F expert to demonstrate how to extract the best out of it.
Lexus went about it the wrong way. When I first found out about this event, my first question for JoeZ was "is Scott Pruett going to be there to give people rides around Monticello?" Obviously, that was not the case. Lexus needed to bring Justin Bell and Scott Pruett to truly demonstrate the capabilities of the car.
It does not matter even if they are ex race car drivers. There was a story of pro race car driver Randy Pobst getting scared and intimidated by the LFA's oversteering and tail swinging wildly when he pushed it to its limit to get the 1:36 lap time at Laguna Seca and then Justin Bell took Pobst around Laguna Seca and MT was blown away at how masterfully he controlled the LFA making it dance at his finger tips even at the extreme limits.
Point is, nothing beats having proper seat time behind a car and learning where its limits are and how to control the car at its limits. Lexus needed to have an RC-F expert to demonstrate how to extract the best out of it.
09-05-14, 10:28 PM
#32
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
That's BS, this isn't a "race" car. Lexus whole philosophy behind the RC "approachable" power, for anyone, not experts. The cars they had there, while maybe not production versions, but nothing much will change. Maybe a slight remap, but the specs are set. Don't expect a miracle change that some are expecting/hoping. WYSIWYG!
For a whole lot less money I can buy a used Scion tC, turbo it, put decent suspension on it, and completely embarrass the RCF at the track. This is not what Yaguchi was trying to achieve with this car. I had really hoped for a successor to the MkIV Supra, but this is definitely not it.
09-05-14, 10:31 PM
#33
Pole Position
For the vast majority of owners they could care less if a car beats them by .5 seconds. Most are after the Lexus experience. I know a racing instructor whose Honda civic hatchback a daily driver literally had one of the top three times in the auto x against Cobra's, Shelby, Miata and a dearth of $70k cars. Does that make me not like my(at the time) Mazda rx7? No. To each his own. My point is 99% of the time it's not the tool that wins but the experience of the driver. Many of you will be competing against yourself and as it is this car offers plenty(too much to handle for most) for the average weekender racer. It takes years to master 200hp let alone 400+.
I don't need the fastest car, I need a well-built car I can drive anywhere in any situation (other than snow and ice). And I want to ride fairly smooth when I'm just doodling around town, feel special and luxurious when I'm cruising....and then when I'm on my favorite roads, I want it to be a thrilling experience.
I had a 1st gen 1985 RX7, and it was still one of the best cars I ever owned. The airplane sound of the engine, the direct feel of the steering, it produced so many memorable driving moments. It had 135 HP.
So I'll wait to pass judgment when I get a test drive....but from what I've read, sounds like a pleasure to drive (and the stock natural exhaust note sounds mighty deep).
09-05-14, 10:34 PM
#34
Tech Info Resource
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09-05-14, 10:50 PM
#35
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (20)
my prediction is that it will be faster than whatt people may think. just needs to be put in the right hands. i remember when people thought the gtr was too heavy with 480hp and tiny v6 motor.
09-05-14, 11:30 PM
#36
Lexus Test Driver
(to handle the nearly 4000 lbs heft alongside the AWD so even the 480 HP 2008 version could trap at 116 - 118 mph and do high-11s or low-12s)
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 09-05-14 at 11:39 PM.
09-05-14, 11:35 PM
#37
Lexus Test Driver
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With experience from the LFA, I expected elements to be incorporated into the RCF. I expected reviewers to say that this is a continuation of awesomeness from the LFA. Instead, we get an overweight coupe that does not have enough power to make up for its chassis.
Lexus took a step backwards if we are pushing about reliability again (Not that it should be ignored). But that was a foundation to build upon, not a fallback for this next generation.
Pre-production vehicles are not an excuse. For such a massive product launch, you don't think Lexus made sure the proper cars are available?
Also, while the IS-F didn't handle as well as the M3 at launch, it did hang toe-to-toe in the straights from 08+. Right now the RCF looks to trail in all performance categories. That might be a showstopper considering the number of competitors at this price point.
BTW - I reserve the right to completely change my mind once I take the RCF for a test drive
I'm hopeful but not optimistic.
09-06-14, 12:27 AM
#38
Lexus Test Driver
Read the latest C&D lightining lap. The M4 was beaten by two overweight and bloated and heavy GT sedans (SL-clas and the E63 AMG). Traditionally, the M3 used to always be faster than the M5 rivals, but with this new M4, that is not the case.
09-06-14, 12:31 AM
#39
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
I too plan to take the RCF for a spin and scare the crap out of the unlucky salesperson. But I doubt I will think it's worth scrapping my ISF to have it.
09-06-14, 01:41 AM
#40
Lexus Test Driver
Don't know about higher speeds, but to the 1/4 mile, Hellcat did 11.7@125 mph (against the 580 HP Camaro ZL1's 12.2).
BTW, even a stripped out hardcore track car on Trofeo R racing slick tires like the Camaro Z/28 weighs over 3900 lbs.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...cat/specs.html
BTW, even a stripped out hardcore track car on Trofeo R racing slick tires like the Camaro Z/28 weighs over 3900 lbs.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...cat/specs.html
Yup, and when you get to the straights, the hellcat walks everyone like they are standing still. Here's where I stand right now: If I'm going to buy a boat, I might as well buy one with 707hp
With experience from the LFA, I expected elements to be incorporated into the RCF. I expected reviewers to say that this is a continuation of awesomeness from the LFA. Instead, we get an overweight coupe that does not have enough power to make up for its chassis.
Lexus took a step backwards if we are pushing about reliability again (Not that it should be ignored). But that was a foundation to build upon, not a fallback for this next generation.
Pre-production vehicles are not an excuse. For such a massive product launch, you don't think Lexus made sure the proper cars are available?
Also, while the IS-F didn't handle as well as the M3 at launch, it did hang toe-to-toe in the straights from 08+. Right now the RCF looks to trail in all performance categories. That might be a showstopper considering the number of competitors at this price point.
BTW - I reserve the right to completely change my mind once I take the RCF for a test drive I'm hopeful but not optimistic.
With experience from the LFA, I expected elements to be incorporated into the RCF. I expected reviewers to say that this is a continuation of awesomeness from the LFA. Instead, we get an overweight coupe that does not have enough power to make up for its chassis.
Lexus took a step backwards if we are pushing about reliability again (Not that it should be ignored). But that was a foundation to build upon, not a fallback for this next generation.
Pre-production vehicles are not an excuse. For such a massive product launch, you don't think Lexus made sure the proper cars are available?
Also, while the IS-F didn't handle as well as the M3 at launch, it did hang toe-to-toe in the straights from 08+. Right now the RCF looks to trail in all performance categories. That might be a showstopper considering the number of competitors at this price point.
BTW - I reserve the right to completely change my mind once I take the RCF for a test drive
I'm hopeful but not optimistic.
09-06-14, 04:05 AM
#41
Pole Position
What pains me also is that Lexus was touting how the car handled and then Motortrend finds this. Heck, the Hellcat at 400 more pounds slalomed with the same time. Pathetic.
"In terms of braking, the RC F stops from 60 mph in 108 feet. The M4 with optional $8000 carbon-ceramic brakes needs 98 feet, the Audi RS 5 requires 104 feet, and the old AMG 507 needed just 103 feet. Asked if the brand is considering a carbon-ceramic option, Lexus says, “No.” I say Lexus should, especially with all that weight. In terms of handling, the RC F’s peak lateral grip was 0.95 g and it completed our figure-eight test in 24.7 seconds -- the exact same time it takes the Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat and one of the three Alfa Romeo 4Cs we've tested, mind you. The M4 can pull 0.98 g and run the figure eight in 24.2 seconds, the RS 5 pulls a max of 0.99 and takes 24.6 seconds, whereas the AMG 507 pulled only 0.91 g and needed 25.2 seconds. Half a second difference between two cars is quite stark on a 1600-foot handling course. Again, weight is the enemy, though the 450-hp Audi mitigates its porkiness with AWD grip out of corners. Numbers-wise, this looks like a pretty solid victory for the BMW M4. But keep reading."
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz3CVI1S3GD
"In terms of braking, the RC F stops from 60 mph in 108 feet. The M4 with optional $8000 carbon-ceramic brakes needs 98 feet, the Audi RS 5 requires 104 feet, and the old AMG 507 needed just 103 feet. Asked if the brand is considering a carbon-ceramic option, Lexus says, “No.” I say Lexus should, especially with all that weight. In terms of handling, the RC F’s peak lateral grip was 0.95 g and it completed our figure-eight test in 24.7 seconds -- the exact same time it takes the Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat and one of the three Alfa Romeo 4Cs we've tested, mind you. The M4 can pull 0.98 g and run the figure eight in 24.2 seconds, the RS 5 pulls a max of 0.99 and takes 24.6 seconds, whereas the AMG 507 pulled only 0.91 g and needed 25.2 seconds. Half a second difference between two cars is quite stark on a 1600-foot handling course. Again, weight is the enemy, though the 450-hp Audi mitigates its porkiness with AWD grip out of corners. Numbers-wise, this looks like a pretty solid victory for the BMW M4. But keep reading."
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz3CVI1S3GD
Last edited by natnut; 09-06-14 at 04:42 AM.
09-06-14, 04:58 AM
#42
The pursuit of F
No surprises on the pure track numbers. Did I expect the F to be the quickest? No. How about cornering force? Neither. Slalom? Nah. But, like with the LFA and 3IS, individual numbers alone don't paint the entire story - it's the overall driving experience plus throw in Lexus reliability to boot that makes the latest "Fuji" Lexus cars winners in their categories. For anyone whose focus is on best-in-class track stats, the RCF is not for you.
09-06-14, 05:55 AM
#43
That's BS, this isn't a "race" car. Lexus whole philosophy behind the RC "approachable" power, for anyone, not experts. The cars they had there, while maybe not production versions, but nothing much will change. Maybe a slight remap, but the specs are set. Don't expect a miracle change that some are expecting/hoping. WYSIWYG!
The car is for both experts and anyone. Of course, defining experts is a whole other discussion. How many people on the streets in hot cars have NO idea what they are doing? Most. Are they experts because that they have leased or purchased the cars?
I'm fine with the spec. "At 3,958 pounds, its curb weight slots below the all-wheel-drive RS5 and just above the C63. Its power-to-weight ratio is surpassed only by the much lighter M4."
"Ultimately, the RC F does what Lexus wanted it to do. It’s faster than a lot of the people who’ll buy it, but its performance is also accessable, providing room to build skill. It’s as close to idiot-proof as any car with its performance envelope, unless you switch everything off. At a track like Monticello, which is slow learning for 98-percentile pros when the brake points, entries and apexes aren’t marked with cones, the RC F allows us of lesser skill to focus on finding the way around and working toward full speed. It’s as beastly as a Lexus gets, but an enjoyable beast, indeed."
You can see more at: http://autoweek.com/article/car-revi....McFz58tv.dpuf
09-06-14, 06:19 AM
#44
Exactly. These might not be production, but they've been prepped for the press. Unfortunately, the press has not been wowed as they had hoped. Maybe they have exactly what they expected "this is not a car for everyone" especially the hard core enthusiast. It's unfortunate IMHO, and I still hold the exact same opinion about the LFA. Unfortunate is it weighs more than my 1993 Supra TT because NOTHING can overcome excessive weight.
For a whole lot less money I can buy a used Scion tC, turbo it, put decent suspension on it, and completely embarrass the RCF at the track. This is not what Yaguchi was trying to achieve with this car. I had really hoped for a successor to the MkIV Supra, but this is definitely not it.
For a whole lot less money I can buy a used Scion tC, turbo it, put decent suspension on it, and completely embarrass the RCF at the track. This is not what Yaguchi was trying to achieve with this car. I had really hoped for a successor to the MkIV Supra, but this is definitely not it.
I would argue that the controversy is EXACTLY what Lexus had hoped to achieve. And I have not read anywhere that Yaguchi was seeking to build a successor to the Supra. He wanted to build a radical coupe.
You will need to wait the RCFS if you need a 6-digit rocket sled. I just want to have some fun.
I will remind all of you again this car EXCEEDS the current ISF with handling dynamics and overall performance, and I love my ISF.
09-06-14, 07:29 AM
#45
Yup, and when you get to the straights, the hellcat walks everyone like they are standing still. Here's where I stand right now: If I'm going to buy a boat, I might as well buy one with 707hp
With experience from the LFA, I expected elements to be incorporated into the RCF. I expected reviewers to say that this is a continuation of awesomeness from the LFA. Instead, we get an overweight coupe that does not have enough power to make up for its chassis.
Lexus took a step backwards if we are pushing about reliability again (Not that it should be ignored). But that was a foundation to build upon, not a fallback for this next generation.
Pre-production vehicles are not an excuse. For such a massive product launch, you don't think Lexus made sure the proper cars are available?
Also, while the IS-F didn't handle as well as the M3 at launch, it did hang toe-to-toe in the straights from 08+. Right now the RCF looks to trail in all performance categories. That might be a showstopper considering the number of competitors at this price point.
BTW - I reserve the right to completely change my mind once I take the RCF for a test drive I'm hopeful but not optimistic.
With experience from the LFA, I expected elements to be incorporated into the RCF. I expected reviewers to say that this is a continuation of awesomeness from the LFA. Instead, we get an overweight coupe that does not have enough power to make up for its chassis.
Lexus took a step backwards if we are pushing about reliability again (Not that it should be ignored). But that was a foundation to build upon, not a fallback for this next generation.
Pre-production vehicles are not an excuse. For such a massive product launch, you don't think Lexus made sure the proper cars are available?
Also, while the IS-F didn't handle as well as the M3 at launch, it did hang toe-to-toe in the straights from 08+. Right now the RCF looks to trail in all performance categories. That might be a showstopper considering the number of competitors at this price point.
BTW - I reserve the right to completely change my mind once I take the RCF for a test drive
I'm hopeful but not optimistic.Weight is always the enemy, not a horsepower deficiency or lack of trick electronics. Truth is, Lexus has a lot of demons with the RC F.
The saddest part of the whole thing is that this seems like one of the best V8 engines in recent memory, but the press is saying it feels overrated... Because the RC F is overweight. I would love to see it in a car ~300lbs lighter. Oh wait, that's what the RC F should have been.
I will tell you very well that this is not what Lexus wanted. They hyped the hell out of this car ("the new F halo car") and the unanimous reception has been lukewarm at best. I have no doubt that their teams are distressed after reading these reviews, and on top of that, we have people here canceling orders. This is not going over well in Toyota City.