ISF001

I agree it's going to sell... No question here.

I will argue that top performer in my mind is the best overall performance. I say the RCF is a strong contender for this bragging right.

begone

I hope so, cause what you have on order there is exactly the color I would get with Red Interior, CF Package, and TVD. I'm really interested in this car being as good as I know it can be.

I have an e92 M3 Comp Package now as I've said previously. It's tuned, exhaust, intake, pulley, test pipes etc...it's a beast - 400 whp. LOVE this car, and I want to LOVE the M4, but I don't. Even though I know it's a beast and a track monster. Also, I love FI cars because they are so easily modified. Already the M crowd are having amazing results on just a tune - and it's unrated from the factory as well. But it's not getting me to pull the trigger. I think I'm waiting to see the offerings from Lexus and Mercedes (although I swore off Mercedes) - but that new C63 with the V8TT is so appealing to me. I will say out of all the cars in the segment - Lexus looks the BEST and most aggressive - I'm impressed....and it's my wife's favorite brand and brings us back to when we owned an SC400, RX300, and Supra at the same time.

ISF001

I like the M3 coupe and wish they had kept the car with the V8.

On top of it all, the reliability is what constantly pulls me back to Lexus. The RCF is my 6th Lexus to date--and most likely I will be back for the LF-LC.

tea

it's natural to want to defend the brand that you prefer, but how can so many of us can say the RCF is better than the M4 or the M4 is better than the RCF when most of us haven't even driven the car

begone

I'd put my money on the M4 being "better" but that's mainly cause I put a ton of stock in what Chris Harris says about most vehicles. He's pretty much the automotive authority right now, with the highest respect in the industry. But even he said that he'll have to wait to get in them both on the same day and same roads. I think his biggest concern was power and Weight.

TF109B

Chris Harris isnt always right. He flip flopped on Ferrari before. He also misjudged the 918 vs. P1 saying the latter was faster, which so far is false. Anyone can be wrong. And even if hes not, its only his opinion. Form your own!

ISF001

Really? Automotive authority...for whom?

You do realize that he has essentially been an under-the-cover spokesperson for BMW, and he has mysteriously had an M appear in his driveway...Would you actually expect him to say anything other than that the M is the frontrunner?

If anything, his opinion carries even less weight for me compared to others...and there are MANY others. The performance car market is changing and migrating to accessible performance. Sure, you can buy plenty of cars with excessive power that will NEVER be tapped. For some, it is a possession to be had, but for many it is not needed. The new Aston Martin is spec'd to run a 4.6 0-60 and can be had for around $95,000US. You will see more and more performance cars sensibly being offered to the public, and they will sell.

You again are making assumptions that are being corroborated by "an" opinion. I suggest that you consider the world of opinion, first-hand experience that will be coming from owners like me and folks in this club, and other car analysts who are more neutral when it comes to evaluating next-generation vehicles such as the RCF.

I will remind you about this fact. The only cars being driven by the journalists around the globe have been prototype cars--preproduction vehicles that DO NOT represent production car performance. This F car will MINIMALLY run a 4.4 and a 12.5 quarter--don't care what any of the folks driving prototypes say about this claim by Lexus. I can assure you it will minimally achieve these numbers. We already know the Motortrend travesty-of-a-road-test-in-the-desert episode yielded a 4.3--in the desert which is far from being car friendly. The RCF has a MINIMAL 0-60 of 4.4.

Everyone just needs to cool their jets until we can get our hands on the production cars. The standard RCF will be on the roads in late December, and the carbon TVDs will hit the roads in February.

Germany favoring critics can attempt to stack the decks as much as they want. Expect more from the RCF as it will deliver on Yaguchi's promises. He does not do "spin" in the marketing sense at all.

begone

Say what you want, and regardless if he has an M in his Driveway. He's legit and from what I've seen and read with this guy is one of the best. Don't hate on that guy cause he can acknowledge and recognize the performance in cars instantly. If lexus comes out with a better RC F - he'll say it, if it's better than the M, then he'll say it - he's not in bed with any car maker.

You mentioned there are MANY others - who has more street cred than Chris Harris?

This guy? He's a Hack.

oohpapi44

iTrader: (1)

Even more silly when you consider that even after driving the car, most in here will never actually DRIVE either car.

Have only seen one or two post in this long diatribe of having track experience. So what's the point? Most if not everyone participating in the thread can afford either car so what does it matter what vehicle you end up with if you're only going to use 10% of it's capacity 99% of the time. BMW reliability is a silly argument these days because we know most people are leasing them anyway. Most people own a Lexus for six years because they never offer us anything worth getting rid of our reliable machine before that time period.

If you need to spend 4 hours a day posting online to justify why you're spending 80k on a car based on what someone else can do with it; there is a problem somewhere. Enjoy your car. Get offline and go to racing school and learn how to drive it and then base YOUR opinion of the car on YOUR opinion because you know what's its' limits are (versus your own). Fanboyism on either end is the epitome of absurdity.

ISF001

Well said...great post.

LoveCT

A breath of fresh air after a long time. Most, if not all that are on to each others throat are because of some numbers being pointed by some auto journos. Seriously? Most of you will engage your racer cars, trying to pull stunts and thereby putting most people's life in dangers on PUBLIC ROADS, as my experience have taught me. Surprisingly many of the same public will chicken out at the thought of tracks and ruining their priced possessions, or the fear of getting whacked by cars less than half the price.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

lol awesome post -- to both sides

obturator

I believe it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. It is very difficult to handle a car at its limit especially one with so much power. I agree that most will probably never even get close to 70% of its potential without getting in trouble--me included. However, this debate lends to interesting talk and bragging rights--nothing more, nothing less. Let's keep the discussion going even if it's ISF001's over enthusiastic defense or Furge's hyper criticism of the RCF. It's a shame those posts got deleted. I thought they were all civil even with misinformation in them.

ISF001

Admittedly, I am passionate about Lexus and scarred by the bad experience I had with my Bimmer and it's incessant need to be in the service bay with lots of guys wearing white coats and wondering how they can correct a manufacturing defect.

To each his own...I just know which direction I will and will not take.

As for marketing, Begone, please don't tell a CMO how marketing works in industry. All of these guys know who is buttering their bread. Not a one of them does it out of the goodness of their heart or to be the unerring champion of excellence in automotives.

If the Brit with BMW tatooted on his forehead is reaching you, so be it. He's not spinning my wheels.

The world advances through vision. The RCF is a the result of visionary engineering and true industry leadership.

begone

Well I'm not here to defend Chris Harris, because I really don't care that much. But one of the main reasons I respect him is because of these stories:

http://jalopnik.com/5856492/this-is-the-only-way-chris-harris-is-allowed-to-test-drive-a-ferrari
http://jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins
http://www.carscoops.com/2013/10/chris-harris-destroys-five-sets-of.html?m=1

And ever since I felt he could be trusted to tell the truth, no matter who it pissed off... But whatever if you don't trust him or think he's in the pockets of bmw I'd like to know how. Make that link or case.

You mention "The RCF is a the result of visionary engineering and true industry leadership." - I think your confusing the RC F with the LFA. It's really not that visionary nor leading the industry...as of today. But we will see and I early hope I am wrong.