RC F vs M4
09-29-14, 05:56 PM
#241
In one paragraph you want real numbers, head to head, no bench racing. And in the next you speculate based on the isf numbers and the MT Lightning laps.... I'm confused. I see this all the time in Supra forums, m3forums, and many others with the fan boys unequivocal adoration for their car maker. Even when numbers are published and it's the same day, same track, same driver, same everything and their beloved car gets beat they still can't come to terms.
Look, the RC F is badass but it's not going to beat Germanys best. It's not, it's simple math at this point, less hp (or not enough), less torque, and more weight equals less performance. Especially in rear wheel drive sports cars.
I think this is Lexus' attempt to sell some units and make a case for this type of investment for the company, if it's successful then we'll really see what they are capable of. RC F 2.0 will be a force to be reckoned with.
Look, the RC F is badass but it's not going to beat Germanys best. It's not, it's simple math at this point, less hp (or not enough), less torque, and more weight equals less performance. Especially in rear wheel drive sports cars.
I think this is Lexus' attempt to sell some units and make a case for this type of investment for the company, if it's successful then we'll really see what they are capable of. RC F 2.0 will be a force to be reckoned with.
I will conjecture that the RCF with TVD will gain precious time on the track, IMO. Question: what characteristic are we trying to beat: low end 0-60, handling, slalom, top speed, g-force, overall driving performance on the road and track, reliability, fun factor, exotic design, luxury, oh...top speed?
Please...there is no basis for any of these pseudo-conclusive remarks, especially based on prototype models, detuned in 99% of the journalist tests.
Hold your horses until February...please?
Last edited by ISF001; 09-29-14 at 06:02 PM.
09-29-14, 06:19 PM
#242
I have heard the M4 in real life an it sounds pretty ok. It actually sounds like any sporty 6 cyl engine. Yes, it sounds a little artificial on higher revs, but as we all know by now, the RC-F sound is artficial as well .This recording is the best so far, its about what you really hear inside the car. It actually sounds pretty good.
2015 BMW M4 Coupe (Manual) - WR TV POV Test Drive - YouTube
2015 BMW M4 Coupe (Manual) - WR TV POV Test Drive - YouTube
The video you sent was made to thwart the criticism on the cacophony produced by the new M4 turbo. The recording nicely presents the arcade sound machine playing in the cockpit and does a great job of emulating a noisy motorcycle.
This is the real sound of the new German car. Maybe it's me, but this does not sound like an exotic to me. We are talking about about $85,000 exotics. The RCF has the sound, outside of the car, of an entry-level Ferrari. The sound may not be important to some drivers, but it is very important to drivers like me.
Last edited by ISF001; 09-29-14 at 06:29 PM.
09-29-14, 07:41 PM
#243
My sales guy at the BMW dealership let me rev both M3 and M4. They sounded HORRIBLE and the sales guy was actually kinda embarrassed after I revved the M4 and said I should try the M3 as it sounded better which is weird. It sounded like a lawn mower..lol. I gave him a ride in my F and he agreed that the V8 sounded much better.
09-29-14, 10:18 PM
#244
I hope some magazine does a more lengthy comparo test between the RCF / M4 / C63. Except this time it being a cross-country battle. I strongly believe only one of the cars could actually make the entire trek. (Cough: the reliable one). Lol
09-29-14, 10:19 PM
#245
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I'm gonna have to hear it for myself in person when I go for a test drive, but that does sound like crap. But what makes it worse is Active Sound. As an enthusiast, by principle I almost feel shameful owning a car that needs to be mic'ed up to amplify its own sound inside the cabin. Eeks that's like a ricer hack from 1995 haha. I know it seems extreme but TBH it could be a deal breaker for me.
On a side note, I find it amusing that M fanboys tore up the ISF because of the "fake" integrated exhaust diffusers. And now the m3/4 has "fake" sounds in the cabin. How embarrassing.
On a side note, I find it amusing that M fanboys tore up the ISF because of the "fake" integrated exhaust diffusers. And now the m3/4 has "fake" sounds in the cabin. How embarrassing.
09-29-14, 10:47 PM
#246
Mr. Bond,
Funny how this video says revs and yet there really are none 'at least above 2 or 3k.' I have heard the M4 rev and it sounds terrible! Even in the video it sounds raspy at low RPMs so try and imagine that hitting redline. But that isn't where the real problem is for the M4, its when you throttle back at high revs where it sounds really bad. There is a lot of popping and crackling that makes the car sound out of tune.
[/QUOTE]
Funny how this video says revs and yet there really are none 'at least above 2 or 3k.' I have heard the M4 rev and it sounds terrible! Even in the video it sounds raspy at low RPMs so try and imagine that hitting redline. But that isn't where the real problem is for the M4, its when you throttle back at high revs where it sounds really bad. There is a lot of popping and crackling that makes the car sound out of tune.
09-30-14, 06:26 AM
#247
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All these comparisons about exhaust sound of M4 vs RCF.... who cares about the exhaust noise? The M4 is the faster car, and by a lot, in drag and probably track times due to weight. Exhaust noise be damned once if you have a stock production car that can do almost 120mph trap speed in the quarter.
The M3/M4 traps at near 120mph stock... there is no way the RCF will be doing close to that. And tunes are not far behind for the BMW's, which should put it in the 500hp range easily.
If you want to go fast, go with the M3/M4. If reliability is of a concern, go with the RCF, which will be pretty slow in comparison.
The M3/M4 traps at near 120mph stock... there is no way the RCF will be doing close to that. And tunes are not far behind for the BMW's, which should put it in the 500hp range easily.
If you want to go fast, go with the M3/M4. If reliability is of a concern, go with the RCF, which will be pretty slow in comparison.
09-30-14, 07:17 AM
#248
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Yes, and it probably does. But I still think that sound is less important when it comes to which car you choose in the end. There are still many much cheaper V8 engines out there if you want the pure V8 sound , like Mustang Gt. But everyone knows that a car is much more than just sound and how loud it screams. A car won´t win any comparos based on sound, I think we all know that.
09-30-14, 07:28 AM
#249
Yes, and it probably does. But I still think that sound is less important when it comes to which car you choose in the end. There are still many much cheaper V8 engines out there if you want the pure V8 sound , like Mustang Gt. But everyone knows that a car is much more than just sound and how loud it screams. A car won´t win any comparos based on sound, I think we all know that.
09-30-14, 07:48 AM
#250
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I actually do think that track times , acceleration and handling is much more important than engine configuration. We do have cars like BMW 435i/ Rc 350 for the one who doesn´t care about top performance.
09-30-14, 08:08 AM
#251
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Exactly. Not only that, but you really have to pay to play in this echelon of sport cars, not as accessible to the general public who may not be concerned with top performance measures.
09-30-14, 09:19 AM
#252
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Even the E63 AMG and S63 AMG are faster than the M4 around the track and in a straight line, but they are heavy GT cruisers. Someone would not buy an M4 over an E63 for better numbers, but in the hope of getting more exhilaration and excitement through better visceral feel. That is why the E92 M3 used to be considered the benchmark compared to C63, RS5 etc.
The sound and throttle response is a HUGE part of the exhilaration of performance driving. An M4 fails terribly in both of these departments particularly compared to the RC-F.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 09-30-14 at 09:47 AM.
09-30-14, 09:47 AM
#253
If that was the case, I would not bother with anyone of these cars. I would simply buy the Corvette Stingray and blow the doors off these cars.
Even the E63 AMG and S63 AMG are faster than the M4 around the track and in a straight line, but they are heavy GT cruisers. Someone would not buy an M4 over an E63 for better numbers, but in the hope of getting more exhilaration and excitement through better visceral feel.
The sound and throttle response is a HUGE part of the exhilaration of performance driving. An M4 fails terribly in both of these departments particularly compared to the RC-F.
Even the E63 AMG and S63 AMG are faster than the M4 around the track and in a straight line, but they are heavy GT cruisers. Someone would not buy an M4 over an E63 for better numbers, but in the hope of getting more exhilaration and excitement through better visceral feel.
The sound and throttle response is a HUGE part of the exhilaration of performance driving. An M4 fails terribly in both of these departments particularly compared to the RC-F.
Or let it put this way - nobody would buy M5 in that case, because it has been consistently outgunned by E63, even S6.
09-30-14, 10:40 AM
#254
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