RC F vs M4
09-17-14, 08:06 PM
#136
Lexus Champion
Lot's of hate for the M3/4 from insecure future owners of the RCF. I don't own an M3/4, and I'm not planning on putting down a deposit on one but it's pretty clear cut and dry who the objective winner is between the two cars. It's faster than the RC-F in almost every measurable metric, and most importantly it weighs a lot less, which in turn means that it'll be better for hooning/tracking as well. Looks are subjective but I'm willing to bet you that 99% of the general populace will prefer the F80 over the RC-F as far as styling is concerned.
Here's a excerpt from Jalopnik's review of the F80 M3
I think the ending line really sums it all up.
Source - http://jalopnik.com/2015-bmw-m3-the-...1635342844/all
Here's a excerpt from Jalopnik's review of the F80 M3
I think the ending line really sums it all up.
Source - http://jalopnik.com/2015-bmw-m3-the-...1635342844/all
09-17-14, 09:03 PM
#137
Pole Position
dunno insecure sounds like signing up to a new forum for the sole purpose to defend a car by calling us insecure on your first post. You dont see us going to bimmerpost and talking about the RCF, and their comments arent anywhere near as kind as we are. I dont care that much to register. Theres no doubt the M is a great car on the track but the way it does it is not my cup of tea. Numb, sterile, not much excitement like a GTR.
So you signed up on this board just to post a biased subjective opinion of just one person just like 'exception'?
What is your proof that the M4 is faster than RC-F in every measurable way. Where is the head to head comparison?
You will find none of us on any BMW boards because we don't feel the need to go there to trash talk the M4 while Bimmer forums members do. More than enough evidence as to who is insecure here. At the end of the day, BMW has put the most bland, boring and lacklustre engine of all M cars ever made. The torque curve is plummeting hard after 6000 rpm, the throttle response is incomparable to that of RC-F (according to Sutcliffe of AutoCar and even Chris Harris) and also sounds absolutely rubbish.
I am huge fan of the S54 (especially the CSL variant), S65 and S85 engines and will always be, but this new engine is blah at best.
The article is so biased and so skewed, it is not even funny. You should have realized the guy lost credibility the moment he said "500+ lighter weight". The M4 is around 400 lbs lighter. He never mentions the horrendous sound of the M4 nor does he mention how unexciting and unrewarding the engine is to revs past 5500 rpm.
Let me guess, another BMW brainwashed skewed reviewer who naively believes that the M4 weighs "3400 lbs". LOL. Not in this life time and not in a single magazine test did it weigh anything close to what BMW claimed.
BTW, the M4 was beaten on "Lightning lap" competition lately by the much more heavier and a cruiser GT named, E63 AMG and even the S63 AMG. It is not anywhere close to being a "track weapon". There are tons of cars that cost about the same and would crush the M4 like a nutcracker around the race track. The cynicism of the M4 obsessed people around numbers is comical.
What is your proof that the M4 is faster than RC-F in every measurable way. Where is the head to head comparison?
You will find none of us on any BMW boards because we don't feel the need to go there to trash talk the M4 while Bimmer forums members do. More than enough evidence as to who is insecure here. At the end of the day, BMW has put the most bland, boring and lacklustre engine of all M cars ever made. The torque curve is plummeting hard after 6000 rpm, the throttle response is incomparable to that of RC-F (according to Sutcliffe of AutoCar and even Chris Harris) and also sounds absolutely rubbish.
I am huge fan of the S54 (especially the CSL variant), S65 and S85 engines and will always be, but this new engine is blah at best.
The article is so biased and so skewed, it is not even funny. You should have realized the guy lost credibility the moment he said "500+ lighter weight". The M4 is around 400 lbs lighter. He never mentions the horrendous sound of the M4 nor does he mention how unexciting and unrewarding the engine is to revs past 5500 rpm.
Let me guess, another BMW brainwashed skewed reviewer who naively believes that the M4 weighs "3400 lbs". LOL. Not in this life time and not in a single magazine test did it weigh anything close to what BMW claimed.
BTW, the M4 was beaten on "Lightning lap" competition lately by the much more heavier and a cruiser GT named, E63 AMG and even the S63 AMG. It is not anywhere close to being a "track weapon". There are tons of cars that cost about the same and would crush the M4 like a nutcracker around the race track. The cynicism of the M4 obsessed people around numbers is comical.
More trolls.
Nobody here is insecure, and anybody who "hates" on the M3/M4 is a moron, they're great cars. We are however Lexus fans and this is a Lexus forum. If you think we're not going to in general prefer a Lexus over the competition you're missing the purpose of our forum...as is the purpose of your forum.
The fact that you've gone to the effort of joining our forum just to try and prove to us why your car is superior has me wondering who it is thats insecure.
Nobody here is insecure, and anybody who "hates" on the M3/M4 is a moron, they're great cars. We are however Lexus fans and this is a Lexus forum. If you think we're not going to in general prefer a Lexus over the competition you're missing the purpose of our forum...as is the purpose of your forum.
The fact that you've gone to the effort of joining our forum just to try and prove to us why your car is superior has me wondering who it is thats insecure.
Sometimes I wonder why the BMW trolls even bother when they are so transparent and their arguments are so easily shot down as seen above. You would think they would put more effort and subtlety in their trolling
Last edited by natnut; 09-17-14 at 09:07 PM.
09-17-14, 10:33 PM
#138
LOL this arguing and it can be sumed up quite easy..........
Just like the ISF vs M3 arguments. The ISF was dope car in its own right just like the E92 was, but all this speculation and magazine numbers and opinions of critics means nothing honestly. The RCF and M3/4 is going to go down the same way......
The small percentage of folks who actually track their cars will choose accordingly. The majority are going to want to mod them. The BMW always seems to come out on top on that one. Thats not taking anything from the Lexus by any means. But the Lexus is never the most mod friendly car vs the comparable BMW, thats why the bimmer boys have so many fast and modded 335i and M3's. Thats just the nature of the beast. So it really is going to come down to do you want a beastly V8 in a front of the line Lexus or do you want a TT BMW that you can be sure mods and aftermarket are coming whether in stock form its boring or not.
Thats why the "power dropping after 6k" is a moot point. That car being turbocharged its full exhaust and tune away from being an exotic killer. Thats not being biased either way, just reality. Both cars are going to be sick and both will be fun im sure. But one will get boring faster than the other regardless how much we love one vs the other. Just like the ISF vs M3 now years old and behind us
Its all going to come down to preference and choice. I will always be more partial to turbo, thats just me. But its hard to argue with a big torquey V8 too. Cheers
Just like the ISF vs M3 arguments. The ISF was dope car in its own right just like the E92 was, but all this speculation and magazine numbers and opinions of critics means nothing honestly. The RCF and M3/4 is going to go down the same way......
The small percentage of folks who actually track their cars will choose accordingly. The majority are going to want to mod them. The BMW always seems to come out on top on that one. Thats not taking anything from the Lexus by any means. But the Lexus is never the most mod friendly car vs the comparable BMW, thats why the bimmer boys have so many fast and modded 335i and M3's. Thats just the nature of the beast. So it really is going to come down to do you want a beastly V8 in a front of the line Lexus or do you want a TT BMW that you can be sure mods and aftermarket are coming whether in stock form its boring or not.
Thats why the "power dropping after 6k" is a moot point. That car being turbocharged its full exhaust and tune away from being an exotic killer. Thats not being biased either way, just reality. Both cars are going to be sick and both will be fun im sure. But one will get boring faster than the other regardless how much we love one vs the other. Just like the ISF vs M3 now years old and behind us
Its all going to come down to preference and choice. I will always be more partial to turbo, thats just me. But its hard to argue with a big torquey V8 too. Cheers
09-18-14, 06:42 AM
#139
torque still drops after 6k rpm even after tuning, which is obviously due to the small turbos. Thats the sacrifice that you have to make with small lower lag turbos, top end suffers. You can certainly buff the plateau in the midrange a lot. But if you want to correct the top end, turbos will have to be changed out to bigger, higher lag ones. No doubt turbo cars are easy to mod and generate gains.
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1036115
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1036115
09-18-14, 07:01 AM
#140
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Funny how everyone's quick to call me a "BMW troll" even after I expressed my disinterest acquiring a new M3/M4 I don't have time to respond to every single reply you guys made to my post, but I will say that your view of BMW forum members is skewed and untrue. I have been on bimmerpost for the past few weeks because I am very interested in the upcoming M2, and while I was browsing I stumbled upon a post that mentioned the current hatred here for M cars which is how I found out about this forum. If you head over there, you would see how excited most members were for the new RC-F before it's disappointing specs were released.
It's really amusing how you guys keep defending this car when we all know so damn well that Lexus could've done a much better job. It's heavier than a 4 year old 4wd RS5 for heavens sake!
Also, one last thing. I'm not in the least a "BMW troll". I've been very disinterested in most recent BMWs bar a few like the 1M and the M2. But really my heart lies with Porsche and I think my GT3 is enough proof of that.
I don't have time to respond to every single reply you guys made to my post, but I will say that your view of BMW forum members is skewed and untrue. I have been on bimmerpost for the past few weeks because I am very interested in the upcoming M2, and while I was browsing I stumbled upon a post that mentioned the current hatred here for M cars which is how I found out about this forum. If you head over there, you would see how excited most members were for the new RC-F before it's disappointing specs were released.It's really amusing how you guys keep defending this car when we all know so damn well that Lexus could've done a much better job. It's heavier than a 4 year old 4wd RS5 for heavens sake!
Also, one last thing. I'm not in the least a "BMW troll". I've been very disinterested in most recent BMWs bar a few like the 1M and the M2. But really my heart lies with Porsche and I think my GT3 is enough proof of that.
09-18-14, 07:17 AM
#141
Lexus Test Driver
OK, despite your claims, your previous post does not match up with your claims. You can deny all you want, but your words say something completely different to the listener.
You did make ludicrously biased assumptions and claimed them as facts (the 99% one, how you cherry picked one biased opinion review and tried to present it as facts, M4 is "superior" and outperforms the RC-F in every measurable way without a single head to head comparo etc.)
You made it a point to come here on the RC-F board and the very first post you made was entirely trashing the RC-F. How exactly do you think the BMW board would react if I did the same over there? Do you realize how contradictory that sounds to your claims?
Do you find a single person on here who denies the weight of the RC-F? The members on here are far more logical and objective than you are willing to give credit for. Face it. While people give M4 the due credit for being a good and reasonable track car, the insecurity of the M4 fans make them feel the need to repeat "M4 is superior in every way" like a broken record. Do you see the difference?
Every claim made here by us was backed by solid facts. The M4 would get crushed like a nutcracker by many cars around the track that cost the same or less. It is very far from being a "track weapon". M4 did get beaten by bloated GT cruisers like the E63 AMG and S63 AMG. Go look up the "lighning lap" competition. It is a very technical and very difficult track so it is not all about straight line speed. It was merely 5 seconds faster than the 3 year old outdated IS-F on a high speed race track (Virginia International Raceway). and I could go on.
Why don't you point out exactly what you find skewed and untrue?
You did make ludicrously biased assumptions and claimed them as facts (the 99% one, how you cherry picked one biased opinion review and tried to present it as facts, M4 is "superior" and outperforms the RC-F in every measurable way without a single head to head comparo etc.)
You made it a point to come here on the RC-F board and the very first post you made was entirely trashing the RC-F. How exactly do you think the BMW board would react if I did the same over there? Do you realize how contradictory that sounds to your claims?
Do you find a single person on here who denies the weight of the RC-F? The members on here are far more logical and objective than you are willing to give credit for. Face it. While people give M4 the due credit for being a good and reasonable track car, the insecurity of the M4 fans make them feel the need to repeat "M4 is superior in every way" like a broken record. Do you see the difference?
Every claim made here by us was backed by solid facts. The M4 would get crushed like a nutcracker by many cars around the track that cost the same or less. It is very far from being a "track weapon". M4 did get beaten by bloated GT cruisers like the E63 AMG and S63 AMG. Go look up the "lighning lap" competition. It is a very technical and very difficult track so it is not all about straight line speed. It was merely 5 seconds faster than the 3 year old outdated IS-F on a high speed race track (Virginia International Raceway). and I could go on.
Why don't you point out exactly what you find skewed and untrue?
....
I don't have time to respond to every single reply you guys made to my post, but I will say that your view of BMW forum members is skewed and untrue. I have been on bimmerpost for the past few weeks because I am very interested in the upcoming M2, and while I was browsing I stumbled upon a post that mentioned the current hatred here for M cars which is how I found out about this forum. If you head over there, you would see how excited most members were for the new RC-F before it's disappointing specs were released.
It's really amusing how you guys keep defending this car when we all know so damn well that Lexus could've done a much better job. It's heavier than a 4 year old 4wd RS5 for heavens sake!
Also, one last thing. I'm not in the least a "BMW troll". I've been very disinterested in most recent BMWs bar a few like the 1M and the M2. But really my heart lies with Porsche and I think my GT3 is enough proof of that.
I don't have time to respond to every single reply you guys made to my post, but I will say that your view of BMW forum members is skewed and untrue. I have been on bimmerpost for the past few weeks because I am very interested in the upcoming M2, and while I was browsing I stumbled upon a post that mentioned the current hatred here for M cars which is how I found out about this forum. If you head over there, you would see how excited most members were for the new RC-F before it's disappointing specs were released.
It's really amusing how you guys keep defending this car when we all know so damn well that Lexus could've done a much better job. It's heavier than a 4 year old 4wd RS5 for heavens sake!
Also, one last thing. I'm not in the least a "BMW troll". I've been very disinterested in most recent BMWs bar a few like the 1M and the M2. But really my heart lies with Porsche and I think my GT3 is enough proof of that.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 09-18-14 at 07:37 AM.
09-18-14, 07:17 AM
#142
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
GTSport, your opening statement was "Lot's of hate for the M3/4 from insecure future owners of the RCF. " which pretty much put your reason for being here on front street. Not a good start.
You see exactly the same thing on other brand forums in reverse. PM me a link to the glowing bmw forum threads about the RCF before stats were released you reference and lets compile a few statistics offline to compare
.
You see exactly the same thing on other brand forums in reverse. PM me a link to the glowing bmw forum threads about the RCF before stats were released you reference and lets compile a few statistics offline to compare
.
09-18-14, 08:15 AM
#144
Lexus Champion
Funny how everyone's quick to call me a "BMW troll" even after I expressed my disinterest acquiring a new M3/M4 I don't have time to respond to every single reply you guys made to my post, but I will say that your view of BMW forum members is skewed and untrue. I have been on bimmerpost for the past few weeks because I am very interested in the upcoming M2, and while I was browsing I stumbled upon a post that mentioned the current hatred here for M cars which is how I found out about this forum. If you head over there, you would see how excited most members were for the new RC-F before it's disappointing specs were released.
It's really amusing how you guys keep defending this car when we all know so damn well that Lexus could've done a much better job. It's heavier than a 4 year old 4wd RS5 for heavens sake!
Also, one last thing. I'm not in the least a "BMW troll". I've been very disinterested in most recent BMWs bar a few like the 1M and the M2. But really my heart lies with Porsche and I think my GT3 is enough proof of that.
I don't have time to respond to every single reply you guys made to my post, but I will say that your view of BMW forum members is skewed and untrue. I have been on bimmerpost for the past few weeks because I am very interested in the upcoming M2, and while I was browsing I stumbled upon a post that mentioned the current hatred here for M cars which is how I found out about this forum. If you head over there, you would see how excited most members were for the new RC-F before it's disappointing specs were released.It's really amusing how you guys keep defending this car when we all know so damn well that Lexus could've done a much better job. It's heavier than a 4 year old 4wd RS5 for heavens sake!
Also, one last thing. I'm not in the least a "BMW troll". I've been very disinterested in most recent BMWs bar a few like the 1M and the M2. But really my heart lies with Porsche and I think my GT3 is enough proof of that.
The RS5 is 50lbs heavier than the RC-F, what are you on about?
And Porsches are perhaps the biggest waste of money in the auto market. How often do you track that thing? Never?
The only way Lexus could have improved the RC-F was to shave 400lbs off the curb weight. But we'll see how the car does with the weight it's got once actual reviews come out.
Last edited by Mr. Burns; 09-18-14 at 08:18 AM.
09-18-14, 08:30 AM
#146
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Read more: http://blogs.motortrend.com/1403_fiv...#ixzz3DgJAX7SZ
Yaguchi apparently doen´t have a clue when it comes to cars then ?
09-18-14, 08:55 AM
#147
our views arent skewed, especially when it came down to the weight claims that it was going to be super light 100s of pounds lighter than E9X. We referenced an in depth analysis from BMW forums themselves that refute the 200# lighter than the E9X M3, and it was actually 86# at best. Yet people still keep trying to progate this busted myth. Heck theres even a thread about how the engine power figures are not underrated that bimmerpost has again undertaken to analyze. The so called underated engine power and 3300-3400# were some of the biggest talking points and they were shot down by bimmerpost's own analysis.
Sorry that not everyone in the world likes the M, even some E9X owners dont like the new M.
Sorry that not everyone in the world likes the M, even some E9X owners dont like the new M.
09-18-14, 09:23 AM
#148
Funny how everyone's quick to call me a "BMW troll" even after I expressed my disinterest acquiring a new M3/M4 I don't have time to respond to every single reply you guys made to my post, but I will say that your view of BMW forum members is skewed and untrue. I have been on bimmerpost for the past few weeks because I am very interested in the upcoming M2, and while I was browsing I stumbled upon a post that mentioned the current hatred here for M cars which is how I found out about this forum. If you head over there, you would see how excited most members were for the new RC-F before it's disappointing specs were released.
It's really amusing how you guys keep defending this car when we all know so damn well that Lexus could've done a much better job. It's heavier than a 4 year old 4wd RS5 for heavens sake!
Also, one last thing. I'm not in the least a "BMW troll". I've been very disinterested in most recent BMWs bar a few like the 1M and the M2. But really my heart lies with Porsche and I think my GT3 is enough proof of that.
I don't have time to respond to every single reply you guys made to my post, but I will say that your view of BMW forum members is skewed and untrue. I have been on bimmerpost for the past few weeks because I am very interested in the upcoming M2, and while I was browsing I stumbled upon a post that mentioned the current hatred here for M cars which is how I found out about this forum. If you head over there, you would see how excited most members were for the new RC-F before it's disappointing specs were released.It's really amusing how you guys keep defending this car when we all know so damn well that Lexus could've done a much better job. It's heavier than a 4 year old 4wd RS5 for heavens sake!
Also, one last thing. I'm not in the least a "BMW troll". I've been very disinterested in most recent BMWs bar a few like the 1M and the M2. But really my heart lies with Porsche and I think my GT3 is enough proof of that.
This spec works for me:
Engine: 5-liter V-8 with 467 horsepower and 389 pound-feet of torque.
Transmission: Eight-speed automatic.
Speed: 0 to 60 mph in 4.4 seconds.
Top Speed: 170 mph
The M4 has already proven to be no bargain for plenty of its owners. DCT failures, blown turbos, video-game engine sound, tossing driver and passenger ride on the road...
So, this is a testimony to the new M4. This is EXACTLY the kind of stuff I went through when I sat in the driver's seat years ago.
This does not work for me:
"Was driving last night on the freeway and all of a sudden on the nav screen it said Drivetrain malfunction... Car went into neutral and I coasted onto the shoulder.
When I tried to put the dct in gear it would switch back to park. So it was stuck in gear.. Pressed the SOS button and the call connected and I listened to music on hold for 1 1/2 hours.. No one ever picked up and I could not disconnect. Finally the call ended on its own and I called bmw road side direct from my cell. Bmw road side played so many games, kept canceling tow trucks after waiting 2 hours and then scheduling a tow etc.. Supervisor didn't care at bmw when I escalated it. My wife and I were stranded from 6:45pm to 2am with no food or water. Bmw couldn't reach anyone who wanted to take responsibility for my car being it is lower to the ground and can risk scraping the bumper when pulling on to a flat bed.
The car needed a low loading tow truck.. Bmw said we are going to have to spend the night.. I called AAA and they had the nicest guy out in 30 min.. He didn't have the right truck either but he works with a local bmw dealer and knew exactly how to Handel it.. Bmw roadside never once helped and never told the towing people what we needed to move the car.
My m4 has only 400 miles on it and it's broken.. It's at the dealer now so god only knows what it will need?"
09-18-14, 10:43 AM
#149
The RS5 is 50lbs heavier than the RC-F, what are you on about?
And Porsches are perhaps the biggest waste of money in the auto market. How often do you track that thing? Never?
The only way Lexus could have improved the RC-F was to shave 400lbs off the curb weight. But we'll see how the car does with the weight it's got once actual reviews come out.
And Porsches are perhaps the biggest waste of money in the auto market. How often do you track that thing? Never?
The only way Lexus could have improved the RC-F was to shave 400lbs off the curb weight. But we'll see how the car does with the weight it's got once actual reviews come out.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._f_first_test/
"We weighed the RC F and it clocks in at a lardy 4040 pounds. For some comparison, the similarly sized and totally targeted BMW M4 weighs 3604 pounds, a 436-pound difference. Before you mount an angry letter-writing campaign against Lexus, know that the AWD Audi RS 5 is just 13 pounds lighter than the RC F, 4027 pounds. Still, why’s a brand-new car so heavy?"
i personally can care less about curb weight, i care more about actual equipped cars
and your statement on porsche (especially the 911) pretty much just discredited most things you say / said like that