natnut

You conveniently left out this little fact :

So the MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION : Which car set the fastest average lap time?

I think the fairest conclusion from the head-to-head is :

The RCF will be faster 99% of the time in the hands of 99% of most car drivers. The M4 will be faster 1% of the time when you get lucky and when you are completely rested, and hopefully haven't crashed the M4 on your way to getting that one-win-out-of-a-hundred attempts at besting the RCF's lap time.

czar07

Again I can agree with most of the guys on this that many major magazines / reviewers are very biased towards BMW / Germans. But for me, the lap times are not the point. I am no pro driver. Its about having fun at the track, and you sure as hell have more fun in a lighter car. The mid range torque is a plus, but not essential.
At the end of the day the only thing that lets the RC-F down (In my opinion) is the weight factor. If it was a couple of hundred kilos lighter it would be the most amazing package available in that price range.

rcf15

^^This!!

Where professional drivers call this "fun, plenty of torque, excitement", we the normal drivers call it GRIP.

Mr Bond

And In fact no normal driver gets even close to this grip problem in the M3/4 on a public road with DSC on. So thats not really a problem for 99% of the drivers out there. And that stupid video where a guy loses control completely in a M4 is pretty irrelevant, I can find similar videos with Corvettes, Ferraris and many other RWD cars with decent power.

ISF001

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au...eview/2550674/

"The lowdown

Few performance cars have everyday appeal.

The Lexus RC F is brilliant fun, and while it may not be as quick or raw as the pure sports offerings such as the BMW M3/M4 or Mercedes-Benz C63, it's a car that can perform the mundane and the insane.

It can cope with the track, while the Lexus reliability and quality ensures you can have your race car cake and afford to feed it too."

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

^and that is pretty much why I am interested in one

ISF001

^^^This...all...of...this.

maxnix

This is why the RC-F is sort of a super Thunderbird, and should be confined to the street.

BMW spent a lot of time engineering the F80/82 chassis to make it very light weight yet incredibly rigid. It is not a cobbled together thing from different chassis series like the RC-F.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

yall are dreaming, want a luxury V8 coupe like this to weigh 3600# but no change the price? IS350 weighs more than that. Hell an M3/4 weighs more than that

TsunamiF

IMO, both the RC-F and RC350 platforms have been compromised thanks to the bean counters at Lexus. It has to do with Lexus wanting to provide a suitable convertible replacement for the aging IS-C which resulted with the RC chassis being sacrificed to carry more weight than necessary in order for the platform to be cost-effective to allow a seemless transition to a convertible version in the near future (with the LF-C2 as its proof of concept).

If you look at the curb weight of the GS-F with the TVD as standard equipment, it weighs nearly the same as a non-carbon RC-F equipped with the optional TVD (both models being a little over 4,000 lbs). Supposedly, the weight of the new AMG C63 with the 4.0L turbo engine is approximately 3,615 lbs, while the higher-performance C63 S is slightly heavier at 3,648 lbs.

natnut

Yet in the average driver's hands, the M4 would be SLOWER than the RCF on the track.

That's the huge glaring fact that all the M4 fans are tiptoeing around.

I say again : The M4 is consistently SLOWER than the RCF when driven by a non-professional race car driver.

How is a car whose performance is only fully accessible by 0.1% of the car driving population ever considered the superior driver's car?

I'm betting that if you lined up 100 actual RCF owners against 100 actual M4 owners on the track, each owner driving their own machines, the fastest 99 lap times out of the 200 laptimes would be RCFs.

Ryanmcd

Not sure why everyone cares about the weight over and over. I have driven both M4 and RCF on a track and I like the RCF better, again do you drive on a track to work? How about the Mall or the store to get food? You don't you sit at stop signs and red lights just like everyone else.

If you are HONEST with yourself and want a car that is going to be low maintenance and has a better past history on being reliable then the BMW as well as is fun to drive daily because it's 1 less problem you have to worry about then the RCF is it.

If you want to play who's Dik is bigger get a jacked up truck or a 2k HP lambo or something stupid like that.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

RCF chassis is 50% stiffer than a GS chassis, not sure how much more than a GSF chassis. It will already outperform a GSF based on this and its shorter wheelbase.

I remember BMW telling us the M3 was going to weigh 3300# look how well that turned out, it was really over 3600#. Now Im hearing a 4.0 V8TT sedan is going to weigh less than an IS350. I'll believe it when I see it.

ISF001

Failed?

Weight or no weight, it has already shown its ability to keep up with and even beat the M4 in track tests. It's a great track toy and DD.

In the words of Lexus, "F" the weight BS.

The M4 is an unpredictable, turbo-driven on-off switch with excessive oversteer for those who prefer wrestling their way on a track. The car is fine for drivers who enjoy surfing the mid-range on the exiting of corners to the dull sound of a muted engine...oh, in a lighter car.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

yea with 3 gallons of gas in the car, add on another 6# per gallon and he took everything out of the car that wasnt bolted down. Put those back in and its about BMWs actual numbers of 3540#. Whoever adds a DCT get a 50# penalty. Not to mention 30# of this weight savings was using a $1100 lithium battery. I do not want to be around when that thing dies.

There is no way a C63 S weighs 3600#. It has a ton more power and torque than an M3 yet gets the same 3.9 0-60 time? An AMG GT that uses CF parts and 93% aluminum weighs 3460 already, so a C63 sedan that doesnt appear to have CF components or major aluminum parts/frame, that is 8" longer and 6" taller only weighs 150# more? After BMW straight up misled on 1 series and the new M3/4 weight, I never took these weights at face value anymore.