05RollaXRS

R&T performance car of the year looks extremely inconsistent. Looks like either they have drivers that have very dissimilar driving skills or the driving conditions vary hugely or it is a combination of both.

They claim the track is extremely rough and bumpy that does not allow the chassis to settle. The fact that their lap of M4 is a full 2 seconds slower than that of the M3 when both cars are evenly matched makes me very suspicious.

ISF001

Does the M3 has the same oversteer challenge? There is nothing fast about wrestling with your car on the corners.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

No, it was a problem when the IS F came out and I complained about it then. I specifically requested this car be LIGHTER than the IS F, and this is what we got. More weight.

Why is it Chevrolet can build a Corvette weighing in at 3,298, but Lexus has to add 700 pounds to put in two tiny rear seats?

If the RC F weighed 3600 lbs, the automotive press would be nothing but raving about the RC F.

ISF001

Yet it equals and even outperforms the M4. Who cares about the weight?

BTW: Your discussion on parts led me back to the release. There is plenty of innovation and new design here:

"New or redesigned parts include:
Cylinder heads and cam covers
Crankshaft: crank pin diameter, connecting rod big-end bearing size and crank counter-weight size are all reduced, to reduce reciprocating weight
Crank main bearings and caps
High-strength forged connecting rods
Pistons and piston rings
Titanium inlet and exhaust valves
Intake manifold and throttle body
Redesigned Variable Valve Timing-intelligent Electric motor (VVT-iE)
Revised Lexus D-4S dual injection system
Four-into-one exhaust headers and heat insulators
Oil pan and baffle plate
Alternator clutch system
Engine and transmission oil coolers
Spark plugs

Digging Into the Metal
The new cylinder heads improve the 2UR-GSE engine’s breathing with improved porting and a high-flow/high tumble ratio. In addition, intake surge-tank capacity has been optimized, as have the intake manifold runner length and diameter. The new oil pan baffle shape reduces agitation and hence friction, while new air-to-oil coolers for the engine oil and transmission fluid increase track suitability. The Lexus D-4S dual-injection system has been redesigned, with higher injection pressure of 2,611 psi and improved fuel atomization. The throttle diameter was increased by 10 percent, from 3 to 3.3 inches (84 mm). A new intake camshaft profile increases valve lift and suits the Atkinson cycle, while improvements to the electronic VVT-iE system have expanded its range of operation for increased fuel economy and performance. New four-into-two exhaust headers help reduce interference and hence further improve engine breathing. The larger-diameter exhaust system is designed to reduce backpressure and sound amazing, especially under acceleration. At the same time, the main muffler keeps things from getting too rowdy at lower speeds. As a final touch, the new 2UR-GSE engine has a one-way clutch on the alternator pulley."

AND

"As in the RC, the front section is based on the GS, but with increased apron panel thickness. The center floor section is based on IS C with its significantly enlarged rocker structure, and the rear floor is based on the IS with added center-floor gussets.

The RC F adds exclusive elements to the platform, including an engine compartment brace joining the front suspension towers, and a substantial V-shaped rear-partition brace. A cowl brace connects the front pillar section and apron member, enhancing steering response and roll feel. Rear suspension member mounts are strengthened to ensure maximum traction.

Lexus applied new manufacturing techniques to yield a rigid body structure. Laser screw welding, additional spot welding and special body adhesives all do their part to give the RC F an exceptionally strong body. High-rigidity structural adhesive secures the windshield and rear window."

"Use of high-tensile steel sheet and aluminum helps keep weight low. The hood inner and outer and the bumper reinforcements are aluminum, and the RC F offers the option of a carbon fiber reinforced plastic (CFRP) roof and rear spoiler. The available carbon fiber roof and spoiler help reduce weight from points far from the center of gravity, resulting in a tangible effect on handling agility. The CFPR uses a newly developed clear coat painting process."

AND

"As a result, 70 percent of the RC F’s double-wishbone front and multi-link rear suspension parts are new compared to the RC. They include new front and rear springs, dampers and stabilizer bars as well as suspension bushings and rebound stoppers. The steering knuckle and front lower control arm were redesigned to alter the kingpin offset.

At the rear, all five of the suspension arms and the toe-control bracket have been designed to provide new geometry and reduce unsprung weight. The upper number-one arm has been optimized for rigidity, and the upper number two arm and the end section of the toe-control arm are made from forged aluminum to reduce unsprung weight. Bushing characteristics of the other arms have been revised. High camber angles and toe-angle rigidity further improve cornering power and reduce the required steering angle."

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

You should read the New Car Features. Marketing often screws this up and says things we know are not exactly so. Not quite as bad as the magazines are, but still not very good either.

And after all that, you still can't adjust camber or caster from the factory.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

3600#? Youre dreaming. A car with more equipment/tech, superior chassis, 2" longer, 1" wider compared to the ISF but also weigh less, heck less than an IS350 too? Not without packing this car full of exotic materials and rocketting the price past $100k. Even the new C7 weighs almost 200# more than the C6 Z06 - both aluminum bodies. C7 is 8" shorter, 6" lower, aluminum body, composite panels, not as comfortable, tight fitting, not as insulated than an RCF. Yea its going to weigh significantly less.

Not to mention other V8 coupes like the C63 AMG 507 and Audi RS5 weighing about 4000#. Did you forget those? Even a '15 Mustang GT weighs 3800# but a loaded luxury GT is suppose to be 200# less. The weight is not out of the ordinary. Sounds like the C7 Z06 is right up your alley, its similarly priced and under 3600# (barely).

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

C7 Vette weighs 3,298 lbs. What are you talking about, 200 lbs heavier? Oh, wait, the one with 650 hp...yeah. Imagine that? 3524 lbs and 650 hp. No doubt it will trounce the RC F on the street and the track.

You ought to go to an HPDE sometime and see how many points by you have to give Corvettes. I have.

05RollaXRS

Seeing the pattern in all of your posts, being an IS-F owner, it is very clear you are disenchanted by the RC-F (like most of the previous generation owners are with a new generation car)

Just curious, where are you getting that 3298 lbs figure from?

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

I was comparing it to the C6 Z06 which was 3100# both aluminum framed and making the point how it gained 200# for the C7, also aluminum framed, as an example of weight gain during model progression. And nowhere in my post was I questioning the performance of a vette. You asked why was the C7 so light, i gave reasons.

Yes I've been to HPDEs with both of the ISs, and briefly driven exotics on a track.

05RollaXRS

Actually, real world test weights:

C6 Z06 curb test weight: 3260 lbs

C7 Corvette Singray: 3444 lbs

TF109B

Who compares a vette with the rc f? Different types of cars. One is a sportscar and another is a gt. Maybe Lexus builds a sportscar and it weighs 3500lbs. Thats not the rc f. No one should pretend thats what it was intended to be or should be.

05RollaXRS

A great testimonial by R&T on the depth of RC-F capabilities. Notice how they praise the broad powerband and that majority of them favor it over the Jaguar F-Type

czar07

Like I said in my post, the weight is irrelevant considering a large proportion of owners would hardly track their cars. But in an ideal world if this thing weighed maybe 100kg less than it does, it would destroy its competition rather than just be competitive. Plus the fact that throwing a lighter car round a corner is a lot more fun, street or track.

The weight doesnt discourage me from getting an RC-F. I had a chance to view one up close and personal in Tokyo and it is amazing. Lexus has the best fit and finish in the luxury car market and the car design philosophy and engine really is awesome.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

this is the issue with highly turbocharged engines and RWD, another reason why I prefer NA

05RollaXRS

Motor Trend warming up more to the RC-F. They selected it as a finalist in the "Car of the year" feature.

Their reason for not selecting it, is quite bizarre. It is the actually styling. Not the handling, not the engine, not the weight, but the styling. Very odd.

They love the engine and handling

http://www.motortrend.com/oftheyear/...s/viewall.html