RC F automotive reviews thread
09-11-14, 06:08 PM
#166
http://www.torquenews.com/1083/2015-...e-transmission
2015 Lexus RC F’s most amazing feature is the transmission
Yes, the engine is amazing, yes, both the rear differentials are impressive, but the transmission is what you will notice and appreciate most on the track or on the ride home.
If you are a driver that has had some experience on track, but not professional level experience, the 2015 Lexus RC F may be the car you would be the fastest in on any racetrack. It will certainly make you feel like you are.
This week I had the chance to wring out the 2015 Lexus RC F on the track at the Monticello Motor Club. This club has one of the best road-course tracks in the Northeast. Due to scheduling issues with other attendees, I was able to have three RC vehicles and the track almost to myself for about two hours, after having driven the car for two hours already in turn.
Lexus RC F Engine and Transmission
The V8 engine in the RC F makes 467 horsepower, but I have driven cars with more power and equally good handling on this track in the past. The new Corvette Stingray and Mercedes SLS AMG come to mind. What the Lexus can do better than any track-worthy car I have ever driven is make sure that the driver gets the horsepower exactly when needed. The transmission gets all the credit.
The system that Lexus uses is an 8- speed sport direct shift transmission with a torque converter that fully locks in gears 2 through 8 when driven in manual mode. Interestingly, the real fun is not in manual mode, but in automatic mode. In this mode, Lexus’s transmission uses AI-SHIFT control. This is an artificial intelligence shifting mode. The transmission is fed information from the G sensor in the vehicle. It knows that when you brake you will want to have the transmission downshift. It also can tell from how firmly you are braking how quickly that downshift should take place and how many gears to drop down.
Lexus RC F Downshifts
When I first experienced this in the car on the track wearing a helmet the sound was so loud and so aggressive, I was actually startled. The shift takes about 0.2 seconds, and the car matches the revs on the downshift. Still, it is abrupt and could almost be called violent. Keep braking, and more downshifts come. “Bram! Bram! Bram!
Lexus RC F Power Out of Corners
When you finish trail-braking the car and then jump on the accelerator you are in the best RPM range for power. Like all sporting cars these days, the car has a variety of drive modes. In Sport+ mode, the Torsen differential and the car’s stability control allow for rear wheel spin. Yes, the car oversteers. The whole day I never felt the RC understeer. On many tight corners, I was able to get the car’s tail out and drift it about half the track’s width. On one downhill sweeping left turn I could let the car drift all the way across the track using the gas pedal to control the car’s attitude. Nothing feels better in a GT car like this one.
Floor the gas once you exit the corner (or should I say modulate the throttle), and the car screams and goes to redline (past redline if I am not mistaken) and the upshifts are instantaneous and perfect. The car snaps off upshifts quickly as you gain speed. On one section of the track, the faster drivers were hitting 130 MPH. I was not that fast (126 according to the car), but the upshifts on that straight and then the downshifts as I used full braking power to turn 90 degrees right were absolutely amazing. I have never felt a transmission this good in any track-worthy car and that includes the manuals in the CTS-V, Camaro ZL-1, Camaro LT1, and Corvette Stingray I drove this year. The Chrysler Challenger and Mustang GT were not even close. This transmission makes a track day much more enjoyable for a person who is not a professional driver.
RC F Was Designed For You
Interestingly, that was the whole point of the RC F. The designers did not make this car just for professionals, or for those that plan to drive competitively. They made it for you and me as well. You and I are faster in this car because of that. After about 20 laps I had only started to like it more.
Yes, there are those that will want a manual in any car, but are they Lexus buyers, or buyers of any GT in this price class? Apparently not. Brian Bolain the Lexus Executive that introduced the RC F to journalists, owns a manual Porsche 911. He points out that the PDK makes up almost all that car’s production and that the resale value of 911s with manuals suffers greatly. The PDK is faster, and most buyers want it.
No RC F Stick Shift? Why!
I’ve owned Supras and Miatas with stick shifts, and those cars were defined by their great transmissions. In those cars I feel an automated transmission would have spoiled the car. On the ride back we drove the RC F through a couple hours of New York City suburbia traffic. The car was just as comfortable in that setting as it was on-track due to its automatic transmission.
This new Lexus RC F is perhaps the best GT in the world for its price of about $65,000 and its transmission could not be better-suited to its mission.
Yes, the engine is amazing, yes, both the rear differentials are impressive, but the transmission is what you will notice and appreciate most on the track or on the ride home.
If you are a driver that has had some experience on track, but not professional level experience, the 2015 Lexus RC F may be the car you would be the fastest in on any racetrack. It will certainly make you feel like you are.
This week I had the chance to wring out the 2015 Lexus RC F on the track at the Monticello Motor Club. This club has one of the best road-course tracks in the Northeast. Due to scheduling issues with other attendees, I was able to have three RC vehicles and the track almost to myself for about two hours, after having driven the car for two hours already in turn.
Lexus RC F Engine and Transmission
The V8 engine in the RC F makes 467 horsepower, but I have driven cars with more power and equally good handling on this track in the past. The new Corvette Stingray and Mercedes SLS AMG come to mind. What the Lexus can do better than any track-worthy car I have ever driven is make sure that the driver gets the horsepower exactly when needed. The transmission gets all the credit.
The system that Lexus uses is an 8- speed sport direct shift transmission with a torque converter that fully locks in gears 2 through 8 when driven in manual mode. Interestingly, the real fun is not in manual mode, but in automatic mode. In this mode, Lexus’s transmission uses AI-SHIFT control. This is an artificial intelligence shifting mode. The transmission is fed information from the G sensor in the vehicle. It knows that when you brake you will want to have the transmission downshift. It also can tell from how firmly you are braking how quickly that downshift should take place and how many gears to drop down.
Lexus RC F Downshifts
When I first experienced this in the car on the track wearing a helmet the sound was so loud and so aggressive, I was actually startled. The shift takes about 0.2 seconds, and the car matches the revs on the downshift. Still, it is abrupt and could almost be called violent. Keep braking, and more downshifts come. “Bram! Bram! Bram!
Lexus RC F Power Out of Corners
When you finish trail-braking the car and then jump on the accelerator you are in the best RPM range for power. Like all sporting cars these days, the car has a variety of drive modes. In Sport+ mode, the Torsen differential and the car’s stability control allow for rear wheel spin. Yes, the car oversteers. The whole day I never felt the RC understeer. On many tight corners, I was able to get the car’s tail out and drift it about half the track’s width. On one downhill sweeping left turn I could let the car drift all the way across the track using the gas pedal to control the car’s attitude. Nothing feels better in a GT car like this one.
Floor the gas once you exit the corner (or should I say modulate the throttle), and the car screams and goes to redline (past redline if I am not mistaken) and the upshifts are instantaneous and perfect. The car snaps off upshifts quickly as you gain speed. On one section of the track, the faster drivers were hitting 130 MPH. I was not that fast (126 according to the car), but the upshifts on that straight and then the downshifts as I used full braking power to turn 90 degrees right were absolutely amazing. I have never felt a transmission this good in any track-worthy car and that includes the manuals in the CTS-V, Camaro ZL-1, Camaro LT1, and Corvette Stingray I drove this year. The Chrysler Challenger and Mustang GT were not even close. This transmission makes a track day much more enjoyable for a person who is not a professional driver.
RC F Was Designed For You
Interestingly, that was the whole point of the RC F. The designers did not make this car just for professionals, or for those that plan to drive competitively. They made it for you and me as well. You and I are faster in this car because of that. After about 20 laps I had only started to like it more.
Yes, there are those that will want a manual in any car, but are they Lexus buyers, or buyers of any GT in this price class? Apparently not. Brian Bolain the Lexus Executive that introduced the RC F to journalists, owns a manual Porsche 911. He points out that the PDK makes up almost all that car’s production and that the resale value of 911s with manuals suffers greatly. The PDK is faster, and most buyers want it.
No RC F Stick Shift? Why!
I’ve owned Supras and Miatas with stick shifts, and those cars were defined by their great transmissions. In those cars I feel an automated transmission would have spoiled the car. On the ride back we drove the RC F through a couple hours of New York City suburbia traffic. The car was just as comfortable in that setting as it was on-track due to its automatic transmission.
This new Lexus RC F is perhaps the best GT in the world for its price of about $65,000 and its transmission could not be better-suited to its mission.
09-12-14, 12:12 AM
#168
Lexus Test Driver
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This is Chris Harris' review:
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...?storyId=30817
He summed it up by saying, " BMW can rest easy, and Lexus has probably arrived at a 2014 party in 2008 clothes, but the RC F still has something about it".
I really respect and like this writer. I think he swayed my decision.
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...?storyId=30817
He summed it up by saying, " BMW can rest easy, and Lexus has probably arrived at a 2014 party in 2008 clothes, but the RC F still has something about it".
I really respect and like this writer. I think he swayed my decision.
I'd stop short of saying any one particular review being able to sway my decision, but the collective reviews (Eerily consistent BTW) have been a total downer.
09-12-14, 02:46 AM
#169
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Most people are just spoiled by turbo torque. Compared to a E92 335d, a E92 M3 would also feel slow and underpowered. It is funny how the RC F being a better than car than the M3 E92 get so bad reviews. The M4 F82 is not the same thing as a M3 E92. Different cars, same badge. M4 is just a faster 435i. Emotionally there is not difference, other than the diluted M badge.
09-12-14, 04:46 AM
#170
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
There have been some excellent reviews. Forget who is doing the review. The FACT is that ALL reviews were based on the following:
1. PROTOTYPE, detuned RCFs, which were intentionally limited to prevent stand still burnouts, were given to the journalist, and it impacted low-end take offs.
2. Lexus (probably a mess up on their part) DID NOT install the PRODUCTION level engine management software, which is expected to shave tenths off of the numbers.
So, before any half-cooked German touting, anti-Japanese car critics make definitive statements on what many are already hailing as a PROTOTYPE car with a masterpiece engine and a breakthrough transmission, it would be good to get the facts right.
Yamaguchi has more brain cells than all the Bimmer engineers combined. We all need to give the guy the credit he deserves for this future car that can be purchased today.
We HAVE YET to see ANY reviews on the PRODUCTION CAR.
THE NUMBERS ARE ALL MEANINGLESS UNTIL THAT OCCURS...IT'S CALLED BEING OBJECTIVE AND SCIENTIFIC.
Last edited by ISF001; 09-12-14 at 05:00 AM.
09-12-14, 05:12 AM
#171
Most people are just spoiled by turbo torque. Compared to a E92 335d, a E92 M3 would also feel slow and underpowered. It is funny how the RC F being a better than car than the M3 E92 get so bad reviews. The M4 F82 is not the same thing as a M3 E92. Different cars, same badge. M4 is just a faster 435i. Emotionally there is not difference, other than the diluted M badge.
Last edited by 4TehNguyen; 09-12-14 at 05:16 AM.
09-12-14, 05:18 AM
#172
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
He needs to step aside, take his Deutschmarks, and let objective automotive critics assess the new high-performance coupe, once there is a PRODUCTION vehicle to drive and assess. He doesn't really have a clue if he is relating the car to 2008 technology from Lexus.
I find it interesting that the few critics attacking the car do not mention it was a prototype. He does not mention it in his article, yet there were HUGE signs on the passenger side visor explaining WHAT was being driven, etc.
Reputable...
Last edited by ISF001; 09-12-14 at 05:21 AM.
09-12-14, 06:13 AM
#173
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Harris' hand is SO deep down the back pockets of Porsche and BMW it has the color of, well, you know what I am saying...the article oozes imperious German preference long before he pushes the start button. The article is yellow from the start.
He needs to step aside, take his Deutschmarks, and let objective automotive critics assess the new high-performance coupe, once there is a PRODUCTION vehicle to drive and assess. He doesn't really have a clue if he is relating the car to 2008 technology from Lexus.
I find it interesting that the few critics attacking the car do not mention it was a prototype. He does not mention it in his article, yet there were HUGE signs on the passenger side visor explaining WHAT was being driven, etc.
Reputable...
He needs to step aside, take his Deutschmarks, and let objective automotive critics assess the new high-performance coupe, once there is a PRODUCTION vehicle to drive and assess. He doesn't really have a clue if he is relating the car to 2008 technology from Lexus.
I find it interesting that the few critics attacking the car do not mention it was a prototype. He does not mention it in his article, yet there were HUGE signs on the passenger side visor explaining WHAT was being driven, etc.
Reputable...
Chris Harris, Steve Sutcliffe, Top Gear and every single rewiev i read about the Toyota GT86 praised the car in almost every way . Every single rewiev praised the LFA, no matter which country. All of them has also lifted cheap japanese cars like Mazda Miata to the skies.
If someone wants the RC-F , he or she will likely but it anyway. Its more than just numbers that sells a car.
09-12-14, 06:23 AM
#174
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Anybody that get's banned by Ferrari from driving their Media Cars is okay in my books. Love Harris' videos for the fact he is so good at capturing the thrill/passion/excitement, but at the same time being brutally honest about certain flaws. Yes you can say it was a prototype car and not a production car, but then why is Lexus trotting the proto for all to review and not wait for the production car?
Another point, BMW's, usually, get high praises for the feeling of the drive. It's not because they are the fastest, the best handling, or the prettiest. They are FUN to drive. Every road is a racetrack in a proper M car. Maybe the RC-F is a bit like when the GTR hit the streets and it received a lot of negative remarks due to the electronics controlling your every input and thus not leaving any input from the driver to have a little fun, get a little sideways, leave a patch of tire marks halfway down the block, etc.
I've seen the RC-F at two different autoshows and would gladly take it over an M car any day of the week. But that is based, for me, solely on Lexus reliability and the looks of the RC-F. I'm not a race car driver, I don't have access to the World's premier road courses, and I don't need to drive 9/10's every day on the mean streets of the Chicagoland area.
But with Lexus trotting out the proto car to the media, maybe they are trying to get a feel of where they need to improve on, and let the critics be....their critics, then before production, make the proper changes, trot the production car out and leave them stunned.
Another point, BMW's, usually, get high praises for the feeling of the drive. It's not because they are the fastest, the best handling, or the prettiest. They are FUN to drive. Every road is a racetrack in a proper M car. Maybe the RC-F is a bit like when the GTR hit the streets and it received a lot of negative remarks due to the electronics controlling your every input and thus not leaving any input from the driver to have a little fun, get a little sideways, leave a patch of tire marks halfway down the block, etc.
I've seen the RC-F at two different autoshows and would gladly take it over an M car any day of the week. But that is based, for me, solely on Lexus reliability and the looks of the RC-F. I'm not a race car driver, I don't have access to the World's premier road courses, and I don't need to drive 9/10's every day on the mean streets of the Chicagoland area.
But with Lexus trotting out the proto car to the media, maybe they are trying to get a feel of where they need to improve on, and let the critics be....their critics, then before production, make the proper changes, trot the production car out and leave them stunned.
09-12-14, 06:28 AM
#175
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
I hope you are right...it would justify some of what occurred. I am still baffled by the action on their part.
09-12-14, 06:35 AM
#176
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I think most of you are forgetting that the first reviews of GT86 and LFA were not that positive. At Toyota, you appreciate the car more and more with time. It is only later you really see how good the car is. With the Germans, it impresses you like the car since the beginning, but with time, your love and excitement for it falls, and you start looking for the next thing.
09-12-14, 07:16 AM
#178
Lexus Test Driver
Honestly
Chris Harris, Steve Sutcliffe, Top Gear and every single rewiev i read about the Toyota GT86 praised the car in almost every way . Every single rewiev praised the LFA, no matter which country. All of them has also lifted cheap japanese cars like Mazda Miata to the skies.
If someone wants the RC-F , he or she will likely but it anyway. Its more than just numbers that sells a car.
Chris Harris, Steve Sutcliffe, Top Gear and every single rewiev i read about the Toyota GT86 praised the car in almost every way . Every single rewiev praised the LFA, no matter which country. All of them has also lifted cheap japanese cars like Mazda Miata to the skies.
If someone wants the RC-F , he or she will likely but it anyway. Its more than just numbers that sells a car.
Having said that, I am hoping Lexus will be able to address some of the low hanging fruit concerns being raised by all journalists. Hopefully, that ECU reflash would make a very noticeable difference.
Having said that, RC-F looks so amazing in those track pictures in the Chris Harris review
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 09-12-14 at 07:23 AM.
09-12-14, 08:23 AM
#179
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Yes, I would not doubt Chris Harris. Chris Harris is very well respected journalist in the industry. He was the one who blew the lid off the manipulative tactics Ferrari pulls off in order to get its test cars to put down better numbers than the production cars are capable of.
Having said that, I am hoping Lexus will be able to address some of the low hanging fruit concerns being raised by all journalists. Hopefully, that ECU reflash would make a very noticeable difference.
Having said that, RC-F looks so amazing in those track pictures in the Chris Harris review
Having said that, I am hoping Lexus will be able to address some of the low hanging fruit concerns being raised by all journalists. Hopefully, that ECU reflash would make a very noticeable difference.
Having said that, RC-F looks so amazing in those track pictures in the Chris Harris review
The article was prejudicial and cursory. He is a somewhat successful amateur racer. He's not the voice of the automotive future or next-generation RCF Lexus buyer...thank God for that.
09-12-14, 08:35 AM
#180
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Harris is BMW biased, otherwise the BMW guys wouldn't like him. Remember the first reviews of the M3/M4, they were not glowing either. The only good numbers were acceleration times, and even those were not better than C AMG 507. They all waited for Harris' review, it was praising the car.
