RC F Engine -- Track Proven
01-24-14, 11:34 PM
#16
Lexus Champion
There are at least over a dozen or more CCSR's worldwide.
Look we can keep going back & fourth.. I know there is no pleasing you...
Maybe time for you to buy that Porsche that you are keeping your eyes on..
BTW, Porsche is constructing an entire Driving Experience center in Carson CA.. Perfect timing.
~ Joe Z
Look we can keep going back & fourth.. I know there is no pleasing you...
Maybe time for you to buy that Porsche that you are keeping your eyes on..
BTW, Porsche is constructing an entire Driving Experience center in Carson CA.. Perfect timing.
~ Joe Z
I am not sure why do you take such great offence at Lexus race testing brand new engine before it goes to sale... You know the engine will last forever in any case. And not like every Porsche has had reliable engines, quite few did not.
As to the Toyota and F1, sure... and Porsche has great heritage. But no, you are not correct here - Porsche today does not invest insane amounts of money anymore. Toyota probably outspends Porsche when it comes to racing worldwide, easily. Does Porsche even have factory team in any of the major motorsport events? VW is not known for investing a lot money into motorsports.
Cool thing about Porsche is that their customers race their cars and a lot of 911's cups around. Lexus will never match that, and will likely never try. F models are small part of Lexus overall, while Porsche sells their cars based on that racing heritage.
But again, for the past maybe 40 years (and especially past 20), you got WRC, F1, NASCAR, Indy Car, Dakar, Super GT, Formula Nippon, plus all the small local events in many countries.
It is never going to be focused on a single car like Porsche, but sure it is silly to think of Toyota like your post.
As to the Toyota and F1, sure... and Porsche has great heritage. But no, you are not correct here - Porsche today does not invest insane amounts of money anymore. Toyota probably outspends Porsche when it comes to racing worldwide, easily. Does Porsche even have factory team in any of the major motorsport events? VW is not known for investing a lot money into motorsports.
Cool thing about Porsche is that their customers race their cars and a lot of 911's cups around. Lexus will never match that, and will likely never try. F models are small part of Lexus overall, while Porsche sells their cars based on that racing heritage.
But again, for the past maybe 40 years (and especially past 20), you got WRC, F1, NASCAR, Indy Car, Dakar, Super GT, Formula Nippon, plus all the small local events in many countries.
It is never going to be focused on a single car like Porsche, but sure it is silly to think of Toyota like your post.
Hmmm…so Porsche doesn't invest in racing…. So why do they make a GT3 Cup car? Just because race teams will buy it? Just because it's not a factory team, doesn't mean they're not heavily invested. There's a whole racing series dedicated just racing GT3s. The company has to invest in developing what the racers want. Using what they learn from the teams etc to develop a more powerful, more efficient, and more reliable race engine. Porsche Motorsport North America's primary existence is to support the race teams.
I'm not exactly sure how you're saying Toyota invest more in motorsports than Porsche does. Just because they now have a LeMans team for the past 2 years?
All I'm saying is to keep the facts straight. Is the RC F a good engine? I'm sure it is. Will it be reliable? Most likely yes. Will it probably last 200k miles? Most likely yes… To say it's a "race engine? No…it's not….to say it's race tested…sure. Definitely not race proven. To say the engine is track proven? I don't know about that…..that takes A LOT of work and a lot of proving. Best example is look at Porsche and their Metzger engine…if Im not mistaken, it's still going to be used for 2014. They still haven't even moved on to the Type 991 RSR yet. Does Porsche screw up? Of course…that 3.6L engine with the IMS bearing problem with the 996 cars made Porsche just replace engines
I'm not bagging on Toyota…Im just saying all this marketing to hype to make this RC F something that it is really not.
Like all those people buying BMW ///M cars…come now…BMW M isn't what it used to be. M used to stand for Motorsport. All it stands for now is Marketing. How many M badges can we add on to things so we can sell more cars, hence why BMW now has "M Sport". "Can't afford an M car? We can sell you an M sport car that costs more than a regular car, but doesn't cost as much as an actual M car"
01-24-14, 11:38 PM
#17
You can please me Joe…keep trying
I'm not taking offense (not offence) to Toyota race testing a new engine…why would I do that? I'm just saying TO SAY the engine, car, etc is TRACK PROVEN / RACE PROVEN…that's just wrong. In my own opinion, to say something is PROVEN, you gotta have a lot of stuff to back it up. I don't think there's enough here to back it up. If Toyota has been racing these engines, they should make it public…as of right now, it seems as though it's just information that "some" people know and if the info is even true, we don't know.
Hmmm…so Porsche doesn't invest in racing…. So why do they make a GT3 Cup car? Just because race teams will buy it? Just because it's not a factory team, doesn't mean they're not heavily invested. There's a whole racing series dedicated just racing GT3s. The company has to invest in developing what the racers want. Using what they learn from the teams etc to develop a more powerful, more efficient, and more reliable race engine. Porsche Motorsport North America's primary existence is to support the race teams.
I'm not exactly sure how you're saying Toyota invest more in motorsports than Porsche does. Just because they now have a LeMans team for the past 2 years?
All I'm saying is to keep the facts straight. Is the RC F a good engine? I'm sure it is. Will it be reliable? Most likely yes. Will it probably last 200k miles? Most likely yes… To say it's a "race engine? No…it's not….to say it's race tested…sure. Definitely not race proven. To say the engine is track proven? I don't know about that…..that takes A LOT of work and a lot of proving. Best example is look at Porsche and their Metzger engine…if Im not mistaken, it's still going to be used for 2014. They still haven't even moved on to the Type 991 RSR yet. Does Porsche screw up? Of course…that 3.6L engine with the IMS bearing problem with the 996 cars made Porsche just replace engines
I'm not bagging on Toyota…Im just saying all this marketing to hype to make this RC F something that it is really not.
Like all those people buying BMW ///M cars…come now…BMW M isn't what it used to be. M used to stand for Motorsport. All it stands for now is Marketing. How many M badges can we add on to things so we can sell more cars, hence why BMW now has "M Sport". "Can't afford an M car? We can sell you an M sport car that costs more than a regular car, but doesn't cost as much as an actual M car"
I'm not taking offense (not offence) to Toyota race testing a new engine…why would I do that? I'm just saying TO SAY the engine, car, etc is TRACK PROVEN / RACE PROVEN…that's just wrong. In my own opinion, to say something is PROVEN, you gotta have a lot of stuff to back it up. I don't think there's enough here to back it up. If Toyota has been racing these engines, they should make it public…as of right now, it seems as though it's just information that "some" people know and if the info is even true, we don't know.
Hmmm…so Porsche doesn't invest in racing…. So why do they make a GT3 Cup car? Just because race teams will buy it? Just because it's not a factory team, doesn't mean they're not heavily invested. There's a whole racing series dedicated just racing GT3s. The company has to invest in developing what the racers want. Using what they learn from the teams etc to develop a more powerful, more efficient, and more reliable race engine. Porsche Motorsport North America's primary existence is to support the race teams.
I'm not exactly sure how you're saying Toyota invest more in motorsports than Porsche does. Just because they now have a LeMans team for the past 2 years?
All I'm saying is to keep the facts straight. Is the RC F a good engine? I'm sure it is. Will it be reliable? Most likely yes. Will it probably last 200k miles? Most likely yes… To say it's a "race engine? No…it's not….to say it's race tested…sure. Definitely not race proven. To say the engine is track proven? I don't know about that…..that takes A LOT of work and a lot of proving. Best example is look at Porsche and their Metzger engine…if Im not mistaken, it's still going to be used for 2014. They still haven't even moved on to the Type 991 RSR yet. Does Porsche screw up? Of course…that 3.6L engine with the IMS bearing problem with the 996 cars made Porsche just replace engines
I'm not bagging on Toyota…Im just saying all this marketing to hype to make this RC F something that it is really not.
Like all those people buying BMW ///M cars…come now…BMW M isn't what it used to be. M used to stand for Motorsport. All it stands for now is Marketing. How many M badges can we add on to things so we can sell more cars, hence why BMW now has "M Sport". "Can't afford an M car? We can sell you an M sport car that costs more than a regular car, but doesn't cost as much as an actual M car"
01-24-14, 11:47 PM
#19
Lexus Champion
01-25-14, 12:18 AM
#20
I'm just saying in terms of prestige, the guy who spent $40k on the Odyssey should be held in higher prestige than the guy who spent less on a used Cayman. Prestige is a function of how much you pay for a car.
I agreed with your paragraph about BMW essentially diluting the M brand by adding cheaper "M sport" stuff, but I think the problem goes much deeper than that. The entire brand is diluted by people buying these cars used. This isn't just a problem with BMW obviously. All luxury brands suffer from this problem.
When a new Mercedes S class or BMW 7 series comes out, those who buy are those who can truly afford to spend $100k+ on a car. These people deserve to relish in the prestige associated with driving this level of car.
But 6 or 7 years later you have Joe Schmoe spending a fraction of that to buy a used S class or 7 series and it just dilutes the brand entirely.
01-25-14, 09:06 AM
#22
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Usually takes 1 or 2 people to derail a thread....!!!
Here is a quick video of the RC F motor firing up for the 1st time after Lexus USA completed the crate motor swap..
Rev limiter and new gauge updated to 7200 RPM
http://instagram.com/p/jirrNKOFJ7/
Joe Z
Here is a quick video of the RC F motor firing up for the 1st time after Lexus USA completed the crate motor swap..
Rev limiter and new gauge updated to 7200 RPM
http://instagram.com/p/jirrNKOFJ7/
Joe Z
01-28-14, 01:48 PM
#23
Oh, of course I'd rather drive a used Cayman than an Odyssey
I'm just saying in terms of prestige, the guy who spent $40k on the Odyssey should be held in higher prestige than the guy who spent less on a used Cayman. Prestige is a function of how much you pay for a car.
I agreed with your paragraph about BMW essentially diluting the M brand by adding cheaper "M sport" stuff, but I think the problem goes much deeper than that. The entire brand is diluted by people buying these cars used. This isn't just a problem with BMW obviously. All luxury brands suffer from this problem.
When a new Mercedes S class or BMW 7 series comes out, those who buy are those who can truly afford to spend $100k+ on a car. These people deserve to relish in the prestige associated with driving this level of car.
But 6 or 7 years later you have Joe Schmoe spending a fraction of that to buy a used S class or 7 series and it just dilutes the brand entirely.
I'm just saying in terms of prestige, the guy who spent $40k on the Odyssey should be held in higher prestige than the guy who spent less on a used Cayman. Prestige is a function of how much you pay for a car.
I agreed with your paragraph about BMW essentially diluting the M brand by adding cheaper "M sport" stuff, but I think the problem goes much deeper than that. The entire brand is diluted by people buying these cars used. This isn't just a problem with BMW obviously. All luxury brands suffer from this problem.
When a new Mercedes S class or BMW 7 series comes out, those who buy are those who can truly afford to spend $100k+ on a car. These people deserve to relish in the prestige associated with driving this level of car.
But 6 or 7 years later you have Joe Schmoe spending a fraction of that to buy a used S class or 7 series and it just dilutes the brand entirely.
All your statements about prestige and people not deserving to drive a car because they couldn't afford to buy it brand new, paint you in the light of a pig-headed elitist. Buying a used car is arguably smarter than buying it brand new off of the showroom floor, simply because the value of a car depreciates very fast. There are few examples where a car depreciates in value much slower than others (like the NSX, for example). But if you want to buy a car brand new, by all means go for it, and feel proud that you can afford it. But you have no right to talk down on someone who decided to buy a used model to save some cash, saying that they don't deserve the prestige (or whatever you want to call the feeling of putting yourself on a pedestal) of the car.
Enjoy your new car for the first few years, then plunk down another $100k so that you can turn up your nose at whoever buys your used car. Well worth it for you, it seems.
01-29-14, 06:37 PM
#24
Lexus Champion
The RC-F gt500 car uses a 2liter turbo 4. No connection to the V8 in the road car. The V8 being race proven is fact. If they were run in the IS-F CCR, they have ran the 24hrs of Nurburgring, the Pikes Peak hill climb, etc. Thats race proven.
02-01-14, 10:47 PM
#25
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Come on Joe…seriously?
Half a dozen? A whole 6 cars? So how many cars world wide? 8? 10? I'm just saying when you say TRACK/RACE PROVEN, that's a very STRONG statement. When you throw a car on the track, you run half a dozen, maybe even a dozen races, to me, that's not a race proven engine. You can say it's "TRACK TESTED".
The Porsche Metzger engine is a race proven engine. That engine design is the core design for all their 911 GT3 and GT3 cup cars. The thing is, Toyota/Lexus is just out right now trying to change their image, which I applaud, and are trying to bring more to the race/motorsport scene.
Toyota pulled out of Formula 1 because of cost and quite frankly, they never won anything after 139 races. Also, they just started a few years ago to join the WEC, but that technology right now probably isn't even closely related to what's in the IS F.
Porsche invests insane amounts of money into their motorsports division, a company with true motorsports history and heritage. They race on saturday and sunday, and sells cars on Monday.
Again…TRACK TESTED…and only some race tested. If Lexus decides to join the Tudor United Sports Car Championship and run a RC F…that I'd like to see.
Half a dozen? A whole 6 cars? So how many cars world wide? 8? 10? I'm just saying when you say TRACK/RACE PROVEN, that's a very STRONG statement. When you throw a car on the track, you run half a dozen, maybe even a dozen races, to me, that's not a race proven engine. You can say it's "TRACK TESTED".
The Porsche Metzger engine is a race proven engine. That engine design is the core design for all their 911 GT3 and GT3 cup cars. The thing is, Toyota/Lexus is just out right now trying to change their image, which I applaud, and are trying to bring more to the race/motorsport scene.
Toyota pulled out of Formula 1 because of cost and quite frankly, they never won anything after 139 races. Also, they just started a few years ago to join the WEC, but that technology right now probably isn't even closely related to what's in the IS F.
Porsche invests insane amounts of money into their motorsports division, a company with true motorsports history and heritage. They race on saturday and sunday, and sells cars on Monday.
Again…TRACK TESTED…and only some race tested. If Lexus decides to join the Tudor United Sports Car Championship and run a RC F…that I'd like to see.
Toyota has been making sport cars for decades. Look at the 2JZ-GTE in the Supra, you think that thing is a joke?
Toyota's engines are all sturdy, extremely well designed and executed.
The Germans use of Motorsport is truly for PR reasons. Just like how Rolex always wins the watch competition even though the Japanese timepieces are far superior in accuracy, design and build quality.
Last edited by yowps3; 02-01-14 at 10:52 PM.
02-18-14, 04:20 PM
#29
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I haz goosebumps
02-18-14, 04:54 PM
#30
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Come on Joe…seriously?
Half a dozen? A whole 6 cars? So how many cars world wide? 8? 10? I'm just saying when you say TRACK/RACE PROVEN, that's a very STRONG statement. When you throw a car on the track, you run half a dozen, maybe even a dozen races, to me, that's not a race proven engine. You can say it's "TRACK TESTED".
The Porsche Metzger engine is a race proven engine. That engine design is the core design for all their 911 GT3 and GT3 cup cars. The thing is, Toyota/Lexus is just out right now trying to change their image, which I applaud, and are trying to bring more to the race/motorsport scene.
Toyota pulled out of Formula 1 because of cost and quite frankly, they never won anything after 139 races. Also, they just started a few years ago to join the WEC, but that technology right now probably isn't even closely related to what's in the IS F.
Porsche invests insane amounts of money into their motorsports division, a company with true motorsports history and heritage. They race on saturday and sunday, and sells cars on Monday.
Again…TRACK TESTED…and only some race tested. If Lexus decides to join the Tudor United Sports Car Championship and run a RC F…that I'd like to see.
Half a dozen? A whole 6 cars? So how many cars world wide? 8? 10? I'm just saying when you say TRACK/RACE PROVEN, that's a very STRONG statement. When you throw a car on the track, you run half a dozen, maybe even a dozen races, to me, that's not a race proven engine. You can say it's "TRACK TESTED".
The Porsche Metzger engine is a race proven engine. That engine design is the core design for all their 911 GT3 and GT3 cup cars. The thing is, Toyota/Lexus is just out right now trying to change their image, which I applaud, and are trying to bring more to the race/motorsport scene.
Toyota pulled out of Formula 1 because of cost and quite frankly, they never won anything after 139 races. Also, they just started a few years ago to join the WEC, but that technology right now probably isn't even closely related to what's in the IS F.
Porsche invests insane amounts of money into their motorsports division, a company with true motorsports history and heritage. They race on saturday and sunday, and sells cars on Monday.
Again…TRACK TESTED…and only some race tested. If Lexus decides to join the Tudor United Sports Car Championship and run a RC F…that I'd like to see.
Agreed
Just F Me.At the moment Lexus has a few "race" purposed vehicles out there running in endurance events, most of which is to bring presence to their sport brand, not so much in winning the race. It's all about marketing the brand and fans/loyalists alike will be excited. In terms of racing heritage Lexus/Toyota has none, unless of course there starting this year, and have plans to continue in any venue, such as the GT class.
But as we all know if you want to compete in the GT class, that manufacturer HAS to sell a number of GT cars to the public in order to compete in a GT race. That is why Porsche sells GT2/GT3 to the general public
My brothers friend owns a Porsche racing team. He buys numerous stock Porsche GT/2/3 and further modifies them for his team, they have raced in all parts of the world and have been invited back to race in Le Mans this year.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FFSA_GT_Championship
Patrcik Dempsey racing in Le Mans
http://www.dempseyracing.net/
This is the true meaning of "race" heritage. Lexus at the moment..not so much.
Although any of you ballers out there that want to start a official GT race club go for it, pitch it to Lexus maybe they'll give you "a" vehicle, perhaps the new RC-F
