Originally Posted by Davew77

Then your Porsche must have been a slow car in the mid to late 90's. I had no problem beating "stock" turbo Supras on the street or on the strip in my LS1 SS Camaro. They were close, but I'd walk them by a few cars in a 1/4, and I'd hardly consider the LS1 f body Camaro to be a classic or worthy of praise over the majority of sports car available during the era, and it was also a mid 4 second 0-60 car. I ran a best of 12.8 in the 1/4 in my stock SS with a 1.8 60'. If you're basing a classic solely on the stock performance, then a large majority of sports cars are classics.

The aftermarket is where the turbo Supra got respect, at least from us die hard American enthusiasts. It was one of the very few "ricers" that I respected. But only in the aftermarket. I don't know about the German scene...

I guess you're older and have different views than myself. To each his own.

Originally Posted by DougHII

There was no reference to my Porsche(s) in my post, but my street Porsches have pretty much always been turbos since the late 80s except a couple of Ruf 3.8 build outs and NA and GT cars I used on the track.

I am a road course guy. Straight line, drag strip stuff never impressed or excited me much. It's about complete packages and skill to navigate technical tracks.

My only point was the Supra was a complete package looks wise and cutting edge performance to match the looks for its time. No doubt I am getting old, but I only mentioned the age thing as I didn't know if you were driving and purchasing high end cars when the Supra turbo hit the market in the 90s.

Lol, about the Camaro. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. Those late run Camaros/TAs were some of the most hideous, butt fugly sports cars ever made. Definitely no classic there even if it had hyperwarp mode.

Originally Posted by Davew77

At the time I was barely old enough to drink and I was into drag racing. It was the best bang for the buck on my extremely limited budget. Naturally, my tastes have changed over the years or else I'd be in a Hellcat right now. The front end didn't bother me as most people would see the rear end during a race, especially after mods.

Originally Posted by Danblanco

I Agree! How many years are they gonna make the RCF?

Originally Posted by Deanrcf

Classic in my mind is a car that stands the test of time, at least 20 years. If any of the cars u listed are around in 20 years, then they've earned the Classic title.

Originally Posted by DougHII

My first car way back in the early 80s was a 1978 British Racing Green with tan interior. Those lines are classic to me.

The S2000 and Miata are absolutely brilliant handling little cars, but I am just not sure about the lines. Perhaps the S2000 has the looks to be a true classic. The Miata does not, I don't like the lines of the 350Z and the Infinitis are too bland and sterile. Not sure how you would classify an ISF as a potential classic with its looks and bland, sterile styling. GTR and LFA for sure, but c'mon . . . The LFA is a supercar so of course it will be a classic. It already is.

I had the RCF parked close to a street light tonight. The orange looks super cool under a street light, but the lines and shadows or shaded areas on the car from its lines are just super touch and unique. If it had a turbo engine and a case that could handle modifications and a lot of boost . . . the RCF would be an instant classic waiting to happen and the weight wouldn't mean so much. If the RCF had FI, it would then be on par with the A80 Supra turbo which also has incredible lines with that tail.

IMO, its more a torque issue than weight issue with the RCF. The NA just doesn't have the low end, super flat torque curve of the forced inductions. GTRs are not light either. Its all about forced induction these days for blazing acceleration in this reasonable price range.

Originally Posted by Deanrcf

Classic in my mind is a car that stands the test of time, at least 20 years. If any of the cars u listed are around in 20 years, then they've earned the Classic title.

Originally Posted by JT4

Maybe I misunderstood your post, but IMO I don't think a production run has anything to do with a model being considered a classic. For example, 289 & 427 Shelby Cobra's are classics and they didn't have a long production run, maybe 5 - 6 years.

Originally Posted by DougHII

We have a Hellcat with 1,400 miles I can put you right in. Black, black, manual and sunroof. No stories. Lol, my buddy brought over a Tesla S the other day. Now that think is fun.

Originally Posted by Davew77

I'm not interested in the Hellcat. If I were interested then I'd have one. I'm going to buy a 2nd RC F and build that one into the track car (or maybe this one will be?). I decided that I need to keep at least one RC F as a good touring car since I travel a lot. But my touring car will still have around 600 bhp (I have trouble leaving cars stock).

Now the Tesla on the other hand... I'm still considering picking one up in the future. That 0-60 time is crazy. I can see the Tesla becoming a classic because of what it is. But the Tesla is off topic for this thread since it's not a Japanese car.

Originally Posted by DougHII

Track car . . . Now you are entering into my area of expertise. Don't bother with making an RCF into a track car. Too expensive and you get a much superior track car for far less investment. I can get you pointed in the right direction for a lot less money and you can have a competitive car to race in SCCA, NASA or club events and have a whale of a time. PM if interested. For electric, also check out the new Karma coupe. It is supposed to be a redesigned Fisker made much better and with all of the kinks worked out. Tesla won't be a classic. Hopefully, this will pave the way to the future. I am like so not an electric, hybrid green type of guy, but I am completely sold on the direction of the new high performance electric market. Great things on the horizon.

Originally Posted by DougHII

I suppose you cannot neatly define the parameters of what does and does not make a car a classic. Regardless as to how long or how many of a certain vehicle are made, classic to me seems like cutting edge, novel style for its time, cutting edge performance for its time or a combination of both. A Dodge Coronet may not be a classic, whereas a 426 Hemi Coronet is.

Then you have cars like the air-cooled NA Porsche base 911s. They were difficult to sell 10 years ago and then boom, 3 or 4 years ago they werethey were "classics" bringing in crazy money with turbos tripling and quadrupling in price in just a handful of years.

I purchased the RCF because to me it looked cutting edge and like nothing else on the street. It has more than sufficient performance for the street and is certainly more cutting edge and novel than Nissan Zs, Miatas, S2000 and any Infiniti. The S2000 has a super sweet motor though and it definitely has it following by those that purchase higher $$$ vehicles also whereas the Z cars are typically a gap car or compromise/budget purchase these days.

Cars that always had my respect were:

Toyato 2000GT
Skyline 2000 GT-R
240 and 280z
FD RX7 R or RZ
Supra turbo
Evo
S2000

Originally Posted by mr2dave

Great dialog from all sides and good reading.

Nobody has a crystal ball so I am not claiming I do, but just looking at things objectively, I think we are deep in an era of continuous improvements, being technical and/or mechanical as it relates to cars and that many of the newer cars today will just be junk after 20+ years because they will just be too inadequately inferior all-around. That and the cars made today are already too damn technical that most novice wrench-turners will be able to work on these cars to keep them around.

Will some of these modern Japanese cars be classics to some select people? I think the answer will be small yes but will they draw the high-dollar, respect and collectability of some of the Japanese (or any) classics of the past? That I do not think so.

So with all that said, I think in general any car (Japanese or other) that is not released as a supercar does not stand too good of a chance of being a classic in 20+ years due to my opinions above.

Just my two cents and opinion...

Originally Posted by JT4

Maybe I misunderstood your post, but IMO I don't think a production run has anything to do with a model being considered a classic. For example, 289 & 427 Shelby Cobra's are classics and they didn't have a long production run, maybe 5 - 6 years.