*sigh* Lexus "quality" well maybe.. Dealer Quality - not so much.
08-12-16, 09:18 AM
#31
Lexus Test Driver
Holding gross on used can be as difficult if not more difficult than on new.
I have access to and log into Manheim daily. I have access to auctions Nationwide and the wholesale dealer network pricing. I occasionally purchase, drive for a bit while trying to sell and sell cars. I rarely if ever make any real money and I don't have to pay any staff, office space, lot space, advertising expenses, business expense, listing fees and etc. I can also be extremely selective.
I have a super close buddy that purchases 40 to 50 auction cars per week. He does not have the luxury of being super nit picky and selective as he HAS TO purchase this inventory to keep his lots stocked. This is a super, super difficult job.
I constantly see clean booked (4.5 to 5.0), desirable vehicles brining near retail at auction. Wholesale network seems to run 105% or more or MMR, sometimes $ 120% or more. There is very little profit margin on clean. A $50k retail booking average (3.0 to 4.0) will probably go through at $46 or $47ish and will likely (8 times out of 10) need $1,000 or more put I it to sell it for top dollar.
You would be amazed at the number of used cars sitting on both used lots and new lots being listed at break even or even a loss after dealers incurred $$$ to get the cars ready for sale.
I have at least a half a dozen close friends that at one time owned used cars lots. The ones that made money were those that carried their own notes and sold crap cars to crappy consumers who financed their crappy purchases through the lot. I know a bunch of guys still trying to make money off internet sales without the expense of lots and employees and they still ain't knocking it out of the park.
Please, PLEASE, please show me where I can purchase $50k retail cars for $35k so I can quit my day job, move to Hawaii and buy and sell cars all day long on the Internet from Hawaii.
08-12-16, 09:48 AM
#32
I've had several friends in retail selling, every product the one fellow had was marked up above what he paid for it 100%. That means when he bought a product for say $500. his selling price was $1000. and the funny thing is he was the lowest cost out fit in the whole state. So don't tell me a car dealer of any sort is not making the big bucks. No way could they afford the $3,000,000. new building and land and maybe its even more than that, the land alone could hit that 3 mil easy, so the dealer ship could be more in the 6 mil range for building and land, very very fancy building just for the Toyota dealer in the area here. Its very likely a huge secret what the real cost to the dealership is for new cars, I would make a wild guess that a 50K car makes more than 15K profit to the dealer. The build cost for the factory is very likely in the 10K region, unless some goofy taxes bump it up and other overhead like pensions, hundreds of square feet of office space and such. Once tooling is set its all easy. To stamp a sheet metal part it takes seconds, buying materials in bulk cuts costs tremendously. Machining parts is dirt cheap these days.
A number of dealerships actually make very little on new car sales. The real money comes from service bays and used sales.
Some of the dealers sold econoboxes, others sold vehicles up to 400 grand or so.
This is not "I heard from a buddy type thing", this is from detailed analysis of financial statements. Company I worked for provided wholesale financing for the inventory on the lot, so better believe we understood the financials and profit margins. It was no secret to us either what the dealership paid the factory for their cars. We knew what it was on each and every single one of them including all holdbacks, allowances, etc.
Last edited by Maikerusan; 08-12-16 at 10:49 AM.
08-12-16, 04:31 PM
#33
Having once had a job where I regularly reviewed financial statements from auto dealerships, I can assure you that your figures are way off.
A number of dealerships actually make very little on new car sales. The real money comes from service bays and used sales.
Some of the dealers sold econoboxes, others sold vehicles up to 400 grand or so.
This is not "I heard from a buddy type thing", this is from detailed analysis of financial statements. Company I worked for provided wholesale financing for the inventory on the lot, so better believe we understood the financials and profit margins. It was no secret to us either what the dealership paid the factory for their cars. We knew what it was on each and every single one of them including all holdbacks, allowances, etc.
A number of dealerships actually make very little on new car sales. The real money comes from service bays and used sales.
Some of the dealers sold econoboxes, others sold vehicles up to 400 grand or so.
This is not "I heard from a buddy type thing", this is from detailed analysis of financial statements. Company I worked for provided wholesale financing for the inventory on the lot, so better believe we understood the financials and profit margins. It was no secret to us either what the dealership paid the factory for their cars. We knew what it was on each and every single one of them including all holdbacks, allowances, etc.
08-12-16, 08:43 PM
#34
Pole Position
Haha!!! The secret is OUT!!
Seriously, there are lots of money to be made in the car business. Both new and used.
There are lots of money in the used "common cars/trucks " where the average Joe on the street can buy or finance. Also in certain nich markets where a particular type (i.e., pickup trucks) is in high demand and commands a premium . On the other extreme, the Super exotic cars market also commands a premium both new and used.
The people in the car business who cries and complains about how little money in it are either afraid that people will find out about the truth, lying, or just not doing it right (or have not figured out the secrets yet. For the most part these cars, new and used, are depreciatING assets. So, the longer the car lots holding the cars, the less they are worth. For the salesman who understands this is when a willing and able person walks up and want to buy whatever, you bet that salesman will sell TODAY a car or a bicycle, if that will work for the buyer!!!)). The key is to keep inventory moving and thereby keep the money flowing.
If there is no money in the car business, why are there so many car dealers, both new and used out there? Of course there are money in it! !! Come on, this is America.
There is still no excuse for bad service.
Seriously, there are lots of money to be made in the car business. Both new and used.
There are lots of money in the used "common cars/trucks " where the average Joe on the street can buy or finance. Also in certain nich markets where a particular type (i.e., pickup trucks) is in high demand and commands a premium . On the other extreme, the Super exotic cars market also commands a premium both new and used.
The people in the car business who cries and complains about how little money in it are either afraid that people will find out about the truth, lying, or just not doing it right (or have not figured out the secrets yet. For the most part these cars, new and used, are depreciatING assets. So, the longer the car lots holding the cars, the less they are worth. For the salesman who understands this is when a willing and able person walks up and want to buy whatever, you bet that salesman will sell TODAY a car or a bicycle, if that will work for the buyer!!!)). The key is to keep inventory moving and thereby keep the money flowing.
If there is no money in the car business, why are there so many car dealers, both new and used out there? Of course there are money in it! !! Come on, this is America.
There is still no excuse for bad service.
In the car business there are secrets. Someone is making huge $ on them, if its not the dealer then its the owner of the dealers, here we have multiple dealers all owned by the same out fit. So the dealer books must be how the real cost is hidden then. The owner must be the middle man of sorts, and thus sells to his dealer ship at a stupid high price.
08-12-16, 10:33 PM
#35
Pole Position
Haha!!! The secret is OUT!!
Seriously, there are lots of money to be made in the car business. Both new and used. AND in service, parts, and etc.
There are lots of money in the used "common cars/trucks " where the average Joe on the street can buy or finance. Also in certain nich markets where a particular type (i.e., pickup trucks) is in high demand and commands a premium . On the other extreme, the Super exotic cars market also commands a premium both new and used.
The people in the car business who cries and complains about how little money in it are either afraid that people will find out about the truth, lying, or just not doing it right (or have not figured out the secrets yet. For the most part these cars, new and used, are depreciatING assets. So, the longer the car lots holding the cars, the less they are worth. For the salesman who understands this is when a willing and able and with the means person walks up and want to buy whatever, you bet that salesman will sell TODAY a car or a bicycle, if that will work for the buyer!!!)). The key is to keep inventory moving and thereby keep the money flowing.
Ok. So the KIA dealer/owner might only make a few hundred dollars or less on a KIA SOUL. But an excellent KIA salesman would have sold service contracts and whatever else to the poor soul who had just bought a KIA "soul". So there are still money to be made. Even more money to be made on financial and not to mention if there is trade in involved. Then we are on the world of fuzzy and funny math and if the buyer is only focused on "monthly payment" amount, then there is even more "padding" profits for the dealer! !!
A friend of mine last year crashed and totaled his old Chysler. Insurance paid him off. He still needed a car. He did not want crappy cars from the big three aNY more. His buget only allowed something like a KIA, HYUNDIA, OR SIMILAR. So he walked into a local KIA dealer and told his story. You bet the KIA salesman sold him a loaded KIA Optima! !! When I asked him what was the final price paid? He had NO IDEA!!!! He only knows how much per month he has to pay!!!! When I looked at his paperwork, it was shocking!!! But he said he is happy with the new KIA OPTIMA. I guess if he is happy, that's all what mattered to him.
Another example. .... two years ago two newly graduating nursing students SEPARATELY with NEW JOBs walked into a local Nissan dealer and both were sold NEW (but the old gen, not the newest gen) loaded Maxima s. Both were focused on only monthly payments. When I looked at their paperwork, I was shocked again. For the price paid, both could have gotten a Lexus!!! Both are happy with their new cars, so all good.
So don't tell me there is no money in the car business! !!
If there is no money in the car business, why are there so many car dealers, both new and used out there? Of course there are money in it! !! Come on, this is America.
There is still no excuse for bad service.
Seriously, there are lots of money to be made in the car business. Both new and used. AND in service, parts, and etc.
There are lots of money in the used "common cars/trucks " where the average Joe on the street can buy or finance. Also in certain nich markets where a particular type (i.e., pickup trucks) is in high demand and commands a premium . On the other extreme, the Super exotic cars market also commands a premium both new and used.
The people in the car business who cries and complains about how little money in it are either afraid that people will find out about the truth, lying, or just not doing it right (or have not figured out the secrets yet. For the most part these cars, new and used, are depreciatING assets. So, the longer the car lots holding the cars, the less they are worth. For the salesman who understands this is when a willing and able and with the means person walks up and want to buy whatever, you bet that salesman will sell TODAY a car or a bicycle, if that will work for the buyer!!!)). The key is to keep inventory moving and thereby keep the money flowing.
Ok. So the KIA dealer/owner might only make a few hundred dollars or less on a KIA SOUL. But an excellent KIA salesman would have sold service contracts and whatever else to the poor soul who had just bought a KIA "soul". So there are still money to be made. Even more money to be made on financial and not to mention if there is trade in involved. Then we are on the world of fuzzy and funny math and if the buyer is only focused on "monthly payment" amount, then there is even more "padding" profits for the dealer! !!
A friend of mine last year crashed and totaled his old Chysler. Insurance paid him off. He still needed a car. He did not want crappy cars from the big three aNY more. His buget only allowed something like a KIA, HYUNDIA, OR SIMILAR. So he walked into a local KIA dealer and told his story. You bet the KIA salesman sold him a loaded KIA Optima! !! When I asked him what was the final price paid? He had NO IDEA!!!! He only knows how much per month he has to pay!!!! When I looked at his paperwork, it was shocking!!! But he said he is happy with the new KIA OPTIMA. I guess if he is happy, that's all what mattered to him.
Another example. .... two years ago two newly graduating nursing students SEPARATELY with NEW JOBs walked into a local Nissan dealer and both were sold NEW (but the old gen, not the newest gen) loaded Maxima s. Both were focused on only monthly payments. When I looked at their paperwork, I was shocked again. For the price paid, both could have gotten a Lexus!!! Both are happy with their new cars, so all good.
So don't tell me there is no money in the car business! !!
If there is no money in the car business, why are there so many car dealers, both new and used out there? Of course there are money in it! !! Come on, this is America.
There is still no excuse for bad service.
Disagree based on what? I have seen monthly sales sheets for entire dealerships showing both front end and back end gross for each unit sold and the numbers are extremely surprising, especially the amount of units sold at a loss.
Holding gross on used can be as difficult if not more difficult than on new.
I have access to and log into Manheim daily. I have access to auctions Nationwide and the wholesale dealer network pricing. I occasionally purchase, drive for a bit while trying to sell and sell cars. I rarely if ever make any real money and I don't have to pay any staff, office space, lot space, advertising expenses, business expense, listing fees and etc. I can also be extremely selective.
I have a super close buddy that purchases 40 to 50 auction cars per week. He does not have the luxury of being super nit picky and selective as he HAS TO purchase this inventory to keep his lots stocked. This is a super, super difficult job.
I constantly see clean booked (4.5 to 5.0), desirable vehicles brining near retail at auction. Wholesale network seems to run 105% or more or MMR, sometimes $ 120% or more. There is very little profit margin on clean. A $50k retail booking average (3.0 to 4.0) will probably go through at $46 or $47ish and will likely (8 times out of 10) need $1,000 or more put I it to sell it for top dollar.
You would be amazed at the number of used cars sitting on both used lots and new lots being listed at break even or even a loss after dealers incurred $$$ to get the cars ready for sale.
I have at least a half a dozen close friends that at one time owned used cars lots. The ones that made money were those that carried their own notes and sold crap cars to crappy consumers who financed their crappy purchases through the lot. I know a bunch of guys still trying to make money off internet sales without the expense of lots and employees and they still ain't knocking it out of the park.
Please, PLEASE, please show me where I can purchase $50k retail cars for $35k so I can quit my day job, move to Hawaii and buy and sell cars all day long on the Internet from Hawaii.
Holding gross on used can be as difficult if not more difficult than on new.
I have access to and log into Manheim daily. I have access to auctions Nationwide and the wholesale dealer network pricing. I occasionally purchase, drive for a bit while trying to sell and sell cars. I rarely if ever make any real money and I don't have to pay any staff, office space, lot space, advertising expenses, business expense, listing fees and etc. I can also be extremely selective.
I have a super close buddy that purchases 40 to 50 auction cars per week. He does not have the luxury of being super nit picky and selective as he HAS TO purchase this inventory to keep his lots stocked. This is a super, super difficult job.
I constantly see clean booked (4.5 to 5.0), desirable vehicles brining near retail at auction. Wholesale network seems to run 105% or more or MMR, sometimes $ 120% or more. There is very little profit margin on clean. A $50k retail booking average (3.0 to 4.0) will probably go through at $46 or $47ish and will likely (8 times out of 10) need $1,000 or more put I it to sell it for top dollar.
You would be amazed at the number of used cars sitting on both used lots and new lots being listed at break even or even a loss after dealers incurred $$$ to get the cars ready for sale.
I have at least a half a dozen close friends that at one time owned used cars lots. The ones that made money were those that carried their own notes and sold crap cars to crappy consumers who financed their crappy purchases through the lot. I know a bunch of guys still trying to make money off internet sales without the expense of lots and employees and they still ain't knocking it out of the park.
Please, PLEASE, please show me where I can purchase $50k retail cars for $35k so I can quit my day job, move to Hawaii and buy and sell cars all day long on the Internet from Hawaii.
08-13-16, 11:31 AM
#36
Let me guess..you have never seen financial statements from a dealership or group of dealerships.
08-13-16, 02:11 PM
#37
Lexus Champion
There are plenty of restaurants, motels, dry cleaners and convenience stores etc. Just because there are a lot of them does not imply they are all making money hand over fist.
Let me guess..you have never seen financial statements from a dealership or group of dealerships.
Let me guess..you have never seen financial statements from a dealership or group of dealerships.
08-13-16, 10:22 PM
#38
Pole Position
There are many restaurants, motels, dry cleaners and convenience stores going out of business everyday.
How many Lexus dealerships going out of business, if ever? I would like to know. There are people lined up on the waiting list to open a Lexus dealership and obtain a franchise license from Lexus HQ.
Also I don't need to look at anything to be able tell that there are lots of money to be made in the car business. It is common sense. Just drive around and you will see all the new constructions for the major import luxury brands. Even the domestic BIG THREE are expanding. This is America and no one is forcing any one of the car dealership to stay open if they are not turning out a profit and be able to pay for the staffing, inventory, rent/overhead, and etc. Yes, I have seen some Chevy, Ford, and Chrysler dealerships going out of business. But not yet for a Lexus dealership.
The basic economic theory still applies to the car business......These dealership will not stay in business if there are no money in it. I certainly do not think the dealerships just stays open and give out free cars all day long simply because they want EVERY AMERICAN to have a free car. So this is free enterprise/capitalistic mechanisms at work. This basic economic theory still applies, even in communist countries across the globe.
I also have enough business sense to know that there are a lot of "fuzzy math" involved in accounting. Meaning expense write offs and such. So the car the dealership's managers, officers, and salesman drives around FREE are really business deductions for the business among other things. So it only makes sense that the top salesman or manager get to drive the top whatever car he wants FREE. Let's not forget they expense out and write off the gas and insurance and thick retirement accounts for the top salesman/managers/owners/officers are all covered by the dealership as well. It also makes sense for the business to expense off as much as possible prior to the end of the year in order to "balance the books". So yes, after the books are "balanced and zeroed out" at the end of the year, it will appear as though the dealership is not making much if any money at all.
Again, don't tell me car dealership don't make any money. Especially a higher end dealerships. Please show me a Lexus dealership that went out of business (if there are any, I would venture to guess that Lexus dealership franchise license was "pulled" by Lexus HQ.
How many Lexus dealerships going out of business, if ever? I would like to know. There are people lined up on the waiting list to open a Lexus dealership and obtain a franchise license from Lexus HQ.
Also I don't need to look at anything to be able tell that there are lots of money to be made in the car business. It is common sense. Just drive around and you will see all the new constructions for the major import luxury brands. Even the domestic BIG THREE are expanding. This is America and no one is forcing any one of the car dealership to stay open if they are not turning out a profit and be able to pay for the staffing, inventory, rent/overhead, and etc. Yes, I have seen some Chevy, Ford, and Chrysler dealerships going out of business. But not yet for a Lexus dealership.
The basic economic theory still applies to the car business......These dealership will not stay in business if there are no money in it. I certainly do not think the dealerships just stays open and give out free cars all day long simply because they want EVERY AMERICAN to have a free car. So this is free enterprise/capitalistic mechanisms at work. This basic economic theory still applies, even in communist countries across the globe.
I also have enough business sense to know that there are a lot of "fuzzy math" involved in accounting. Meaning expense write offs and such. So the car the dealership's managers, officers, and salesman drives around FREE are really business deductions for the business among other things. So it only makes sense that the top salesman or manager get to drive the top whatever car he wants FREE. Let's not forget they expense out and write off the gas and insurance and thick retirement accounts for the top salesman/managers/owners/officers are all covered by the dealership as well. It also makes sense for the business to expense off as much as possible prior to the end of the year in order to "balance the books". So yes, after the books are "balanced and zeroed out" at the end of the year, it will appear as though the dealership is not making much if any money at all.
Again, don't tell me car dealership don't make any money. Especially a higher end dealerships. Please show me a Lexus dealership that went out of business (if there are any, I would venture to guess that Lexus dealership franchise license was "pulled" by Lexus HQ.
There are plenty of restaurants, motels, dry cleaners and convenience stores etc. Just because there are a lot of them does not imply they are all making money hand over fist.
Let me guess..you have never seen financial statements from a dealership or group of dealerships.
Let me guess..you have never seen financial statements from a dealership or group of dealerships.
08-14-16, 06:58 AM
#39
Lexus Test Driver
There are many restaurants, motels, dry cleaners and convenience stores going out of business everyday.
How many Lexus dealerships going out of business, if ever? I would like to know. There are people lined up on the waiting list to open a Lexus dealership and obtain a franchise license from Lexus HQ.
Also I don't need to look at anything to be able tell that there are lots of money to be made in the car business. It is common sense. Just drive around and you will see all the new constructions for the major import luxury brands. Even the domestic BIG THREE are expanding. This is America and no one is forcing any one of the car dealership to stay open if they are not turning out a profit and be able to pay for the staffing, inventory, rent/overhead, and etc. Yes, I have seen some Chevy, Ford, and Chrysler dealerships going out of business. But not yet for a Lexus dealership.
The basic economic theory still applies to the car business......These dealership will not stay in business if there are no money in it. I certainly do not think the dealerships just stays open and give out free cars all day long simply because they want EVERY AMERICAN to have a free car. So this is free enterprise/capitalistic mechanisms at work. This basic economic theory still applies, even in communist countries across the globe.
I also have enough business sense to know that there are a lot of "fuzzy math" involved in accounting. Meaning expense write offs and such. So the car the dealership's managers, officers, and salesman drives around FREE are really business deductions for the business among other things. So it only makes sense that the top salesman or manager get to drive the top whatever car he wants FREE. Let's not forget they expense out and write off the gas and insurance and thick retirement accounts for the top salesman/managers/owners/officers are all covered by the dealership as well. It also makes sense for the business to expense off as much as possible prior to the end of the year in order to "balance the books". So yes, after the books are "balanced and zeroed out" at the end of the year, it will appear as though the dealership is not making much if any money at all.
Again, don't tell me car dealership don't make any money. Especially a higher end dealerships. Please show me a Lexus dealership that went out of business (if there are any, I would venture to guess that Lexus dealership franchise license was "pulled" by Lexus HQ.
How many Lexus dealerships going out of business, if ever? I would like to know. There are people lined up on the waiting list to open a Lexus dealership and obtain a franchise license from Lexus HQ.
Also I don't need to look at anything to be able tell that there are lots of money to be made in the car business. It is common sense. Just drive around and you will see all the new constructions for the major import luxury brands. Even the domestic BIG THREE are expanding. This is America and no one is forcing any one of the car dealership to stay open if they are not turning out a profit and be able to pay for the staffing, inventory, rent/overhead, and etc. Yes, I have seen some Chevy, Ford, and Chrysler dealerships going out of business. But not yet for a Lexus dealership.
The basic economic theory still applies to the car business......These dealership will not stay in business if there are no money in it. I certainly do not think the dealerships just stays open and give out free cars all day long simply because they want EVERY AMERICAN to have a free car. So this is free enterprise/capitalistic mechanisms at work. This basic economic theory still applies, even in communist countries across the globe.
I also have enough business sense to know that there are a lot of "fuzzy math" involved in accounting. Meaning expense write offs and such. So the car the dealership's managers, officers, and salesman drives around FREE are really business deductions for the business among other things. So it only makes sense that the top salesman or manager get to drive the top whatever car he wants FREE. Let's not forget they expense out and write off the gas and insurance and thick retirement accounts for the top salesman/managers/owners/officers are all covered by the dealership as well. It also makes sense for the business to expense off as much as possible prior to the end of the year in order to "balance the books". So yes, after the books are "balanced and zeroed out" at the end of the year, it will appear as though the dealership is not making much if any money at all.
Again, don't tell me car dealership don't make any money. Especially a higher end dealerships. Please show me a Lexus dealership that went out of business (if there are any, I would venture to guess that Lexus dealership franchise license was "pulled" by Lexus HQ.
. . . Enron had a pretty fancy building also . . .
As is typical with Internet, topics and original points go off into the weeds and people focusing on being obstinate loaded purely armed with virtual world knowledge (educated by Google culture) take the original points slightly to mostly off beam to keep emphasizing their vast virtual world expertise. . .
The original point was simply get used to declining service as profit margins are getting less and less and resulted in massive pay cuts on both the sales and service sides in the last 1 or 2 years. The internet is killing smaller market, privately owned dealerships that cannot afford to match the deep price discounting of larger market or corporate chain operated dealerships receiving huge back end volume revenue from the mfg.
Are the Sonics and large volume market dealerships benefiting from back end volume $$$ making money? Yes, but their profit margins from sales are also less and less and they have also cut staff wages.
I don't know the service side revenue $$$s, but I have been told that the service side, not the sales side, are keeping a lot of dealerships afloat. You guys in this thread insisting on massive per unit sales profit for new and used are just talking out your . . .
A guy I know just got a Porsche dealership in Florida, but his new car allocation is so puny it would not pay for the building. He is looking for service revenue.
Last edited by DougHII; 08-14-16 at 08:09 AM.
08-14-16, 08:02 AM
#40
Lexus Test Driver
The problem really isn't the brand, the dealerships, or their service depts. The problem is PEOPLE. These "techs" these dealers hire are just **** bags (usually bros/goofy car bros/goofy teens) who know nothing about cars except FAST MAN FAST AND FURIOUS MAN SPACERS MAN and who don't give a **** that they don't and don't give a **** about YOUR car. These people simply are just not passionate about what they do and do just enough to get a pay check. Obviously there are exceptions but those are few and far between.
My best policy after owning several cars (mostly BMWs) is don't let anyone touch your car except you. Unless necessary, warranty repairs, etc.
Example, my brand new IS200t that I just bought two weeks ago came with a nice sandpaper finish to its paint and scratches on the finish up the wazoo. I didn't notice until I brought it home. The car is silver so out in the sun you don't notice. Well the dealer is 40 miles away from me and I told them. They said bring it in and they'll take care of it. Yeah... I can see it now. A bunch of teenagers scrubbing my car down @ 100"mph" causing even more scratches to the paint. And I KNOW they won't clay the car (which is what's necessary because the car had obviously been sitting outdoors for some time). No thanks. I clayed and waxed the car myself. Now it feels like factory perfection. Only a job I could have done. Nobody will care enough about a car they don't own.
As for dealerships, I recommend you all install dash cams. Then report bad behavior to corporate. You can check out my dashcam review in my blog. #10: http://e46cooling.blogspot.com/2016/...d-bmw-e46.html
My best policy after owning several cars (mostly BMWs) is don't let anyone touch your car except you. Unless necessary, warranty repairs, etc.
Example, my brand new IS200t that I just bought two weeks ago came with a nice sandpaper finish to its paint and scratches on the finish up the wazoo. I didn't notice until I brought it home. The car is silver so out in the sun you don't notice. Well the dealer is 40 miles away from me and I told them. They said bring it in and they'll take care of it. Yeah... I can see it now. A bunch of teenagers scrubbing my car down @ 100"mph" causing even more scratches to the paint. And I KNOW they won't clay the car (which is what's necessary because the car had obviously been sitting outdoors for some time). No thanks. I clayed and waxed the car myself. Now it feels like factory perfection. Only a job I could have done. Nobody will care enough about a car they don't own.
As for dealerships, I recommend you all install dash cams. Then report bad behavior to corporate. You can check out my dashcam review in my blog. #10: http://e46cooling.blogspot.com/2016/...d-bmw-e46.html
08-14-16, 02:57 PM
#41
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I also have enough business sense to know that there are a lot of "fuzzy math" involved in accounting. Meaning expense write offs and such. So the car the dealership's managers, officers, and salesman drives around FREE are really business deductions for the business among other things. So it only makes sense that the top salesman or manager get to drive the top whatever car he wants FREE. Let's not forget they expense out and write off the gas and insurance and thick retirement accounts for the top salesman/managers/owners/officers are all covered by the dealership as well. It also makes sense for the business to expense off as much as possible prior to the end of the year in order to "balance the books". So yes, after the books are "balanced and zeroed out" at the end of the year, it will appear as though the dealership is not making much if any money at all.
.
My two cents, I gift my SA with Visa cards to ensure proper "care" with all my vehicles. I'll scratch your back, now you can scratch mine. Its pretty simple. Everyone is happy.
08-14-16, 05:22 PM
#42
I have had no quality issues with my RC F or any of the 11 other Lexus vehicles I have owned/leased over the past 10 years. Service is the life blood of most dealerships. Unfortunately the quality of service does vary between dealerships. I am going to a dealership that is 15 minutes further just because my service experience with them is exceptional (in turn they now are handling all my purchasing/leasing needs). Lexus offers the free service on new vehicles to get you in the mind set to take your vehicle to the dealer. No business can stay in business operating at a lose - no business! (except the government).
08-14-16, 10:20 PM
#43
Pole Position
X2. 👍👍 Even our government is in trouble financially. People can only hide the fuzzy math so long and can only print more money so long. Eventually it will go BUST!!
I have had no quality issues with my RC F or any of the 11 other Lexus vehicles I have owned/leased over the past 10 years. Service is the life blood of most dealerships. Unfortunately the quality of service does vary between dealerships. I am going to a dealership that is 15 minutes further just because my service experience with them is exceptional (in turn they now are handling all my purchasing/leasing needs). Lexus offers the free service on new vehicles to get you in the mind set to take your vehicle to the dealer. No business can stay in business operating at a lose - no business! (except the government).
08-14-16, 11:06 PM
#44
Pole Position
So, what you are saying is that the dealer you mentioned is making money, but just not as much as he would liked OVERALL. Maybe that dealert instead of investing ALL their money in the fancy building, should have used some of that money and INVEST IN ITS PEOPLE/EMPLOYEES to get them to do a better job at customer service. Yes, when a business has multiple locations, there are times when one location will lag behind and "not making it". Precisely what had happened to many other businesses across the globe. Specific example is StarBucks. A few years ago SB closed multiple locations due to duplication and nonperformance. SB stressed customer service AND INCREASED EMPLOYEE PAY AND BENEFITS!!! At the same time prices in the stores had shot up too. I don't mind paying higher prices for a good cup of coffee or whatever drink, but when I walk into a SB I expect EXCELLENT service no matter where that SB is located. This is my point. So if THAT (YOUR) CAR DEALER CAN NOT PROVIDE GOOD SERVICE, MAYBE HE/SHE NEEDS TO GIVE IT UP AND LET SOMEONE ELSE TAKE OVER AND TRY IT OUT.
There is just no excuse for bad service, even in a competitive market.
Enron was just a total fraud, as you already know.
Your last comment about JUST GET USE TO DECLINING SERVICE???? What!!!??? You lawyers would have a field day with this one!!! How about the folllowing senario......Chevy says "Hey, the reason your ignition switch failed in your Chevy Cobalt is because we were not making enough money at our GM HQ. Yeah, we knew the ignition switches failing long before actual production, but it was just too costly to STOP the press and redo. So we just went ahead with the original design. BTW, we had calculated we will actually come out way ahead money wise by going ahead with the original design and deal with the failures if and when people found out!!!"
WHAT!!!??? I just need to get used to YOUR supposedly declining profits (and your subsequent illogical reason for "declining service/quality") so that you TOP BRASS people/CEO can line yourselves with deep pockets with all the cash!!! I don't think the above logic will fly with most people with at least with some basic intelligence.
Another senario: In your example of the car dealer not making it in ONE store, but IS making it in another store and uses that to offset thd nonperformanING store. So just imagine I take my car (branded XYZ) to the nonperformaNing store and got bad service and only to be told, "Hey, this store is not making it because the owner's spent too much on the fancy building and THAT WAS why you got BAD service. Had you gone to our sister store across town, we would have given you EXCELLENT service for the same price (maybe even cheaper). Or you can come back later in 15 years, the building will be PAID OFF and THEN we can give you EXCELLENT service!!!!"
My point is again:
There is just no excuse for bad service, even in a competitive market
There is just no excuse for bad service, even in a competitive market.
Enron was just a total fraud, as you already know.
Your last comment about JUST GET USE TO DECLINING SERVICE???? What!!!??? You lawyers would have a field day with this one!!! How about the folllowing senario......Chevy says "Hey, the reason your ignition switch failed in your Chevy Cobalt is because we were not making enough money at our GM HQ. Yeah, we knew the ignition switches failing long before actual production, but it was just too costly to STOP the press and redo. So we just went ahead with the original design. BTW, we had calculated we will actually come out way ahead money wise by going ahead with the original design and deal with the failures if and when people found out!!!"
WHAT!!!??? I just need to get used to YOUR supposedly declining profits (and your subsequent illogical reason for "declining service/quality") so that you TOP BRASS people/CEO can line yourselves with deep pockets with all the cash!!! I don't think the above logic will fly with most people with at least with some basic intelligence.
Another senario: In your example of the car dealer not making it in ONE store, but IS making it in another store and uses that to offset thd nonperformanING store. So just imagine I take my car (branded XYZ) to the nonperformaNing store and got bad service and only to be told, "Hey, this store is not making it because the owner's spent too much on the fancy building and THAT WAS why you got BAD service. Had you gone to our sister store across town, we would have given you EXCELLENT service for the same price (maybe even cheaper). Or you can come back later in 15 years, the building will be PAID OFF and THEN we can give you EXCELLENT service!!!!"
My point is again:
There is just no excuse for bad service, even in a competitive market
One local store I hear is sinking and losing huge $$$ and THAT STORE has one of the nicest, newest, most expensive buildings I have seen for a dealership. The owners have another store with an older facility apparently offsetting some losses . . . perhaps they will end up a target for Sonic who I am sure loves great deals on set-up facilities.
. . . Enron had a pretty fancy building also . . .
As is typical with Internet, topics and original points go off into the weeds and people focusing on being obstinate loaded purely armed with virtual world knowledge (educated by Google culture) take the original points slightly to mostly off beam to keep emphasizing their vast virtual world expertise. . .
The original point was simply get used to declining service as profit margins are getting less and less and resulted in massive pay cuts on both the sales and service sides in the last 1 or 2 years. The internet is killing smaller market, privately owned dealerships that cannot afford to match the deep price discounting of larger market or corporate chain operated dealerships receiving huge back end volume revenue from the mfg.
Are the Sonics and large volume market dealerships benefiting from back end volume $$$ making money? Yes, but their profit margins from sales are also less and less and they have also cut staff wages.
I don't know the service side revenue $$$s, but I have been told that the service side, not the sales side, are keeping a lot of dealerships afloat. You guys in this thread insisting on massive per unit sales profit for new and used are just talking out your . . .
A guy I know just got a Porsche dealership in Florida, but his new car allocation is so puny it would not pay for the building. He is looking for service revenue.
. . . Enron had a pretty fancy building also . . .
As is typical with Internet, topics and original points go off into the weeds and people focusing on being obstinate loaded purely armed with virtual world knowledge (educated by Google culture) take the original points slightly to mostly off beam to keep emphasizing their vast virtual world expertise. . .
The original point was simply get used to declining service as profit margins are getting less and less and resulted in massive pay cuts on both the sales and service sides in the last 1 or 2 years. The internet is killing smaller market, privately owned dealerships that cannot afford to match the deep price discounting of larger market or corporate chain operated dealerships receiving huge back end volume revenue from the mfg.
Are the Sonics and large volume market dealerships benefiting from back end volume $$$ making money? Yes, but their profit margins from sales are also less and less and they have also cut staff wages.
I don't know the service side revenue $$$s, but I have been told that the service side, not the sales side, are keeping a lot of dealerships afloat. You guys in this thread insisting on massive per unit sales profit for new and used are just talking out your . . .
A guy I know just got a Porsche dealership in Florida, but his new car allocation is so puny it would not pay for the building. He is looking for service revenue.
Last edited by lexusrus; 08-15-16 at 12:18 AM.
08-15-16, 07:09 AM
#45
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
The problem really isn't the brand, the dealerships, or their service depts. The problem is PEOPLE. These "techs" these dealers hire are just **** bags (usually bros/goofy car bros/goofy teens) who know nothing about cars except FAST MAN FAST AND FURIOUS MAN SPACERS MAN and who don't give a **** that they don't and don't give a **** about YOUR car. These people simply are just not passionate about what they do and do just enough to get a pay check. Obviously there are exceptions but those are few and far between.
My best policy after owning several cars (mostly BMWs) is don't let anyone touch your car except you. Unless necessary, warranty repairs, etc.
Example, my brand new IS200t that I just bought two weeks ago came with a nice sandpaper finish to its paint and scratches on the finish up the wazoo. I didn't notice until I brought it home. The car is silver so out in the sun you don't notice. Well the dealer is 40 miles away from me and I told them. They said bring it in and they'll take care of it. Yeah... I can see it now. A bunch of teenagers scrubbing my car down @ 100"mph" causing even more scratches to the paint. And I KNOW they won't clay the car (which is what's necessary because the car had obviously been sitting outdoors for some time). No thanks. I clayed and waxed the car myself. Now it feels like factory perfection. Only a job I could have done. Nobody will care enough about a car they don't own.
As for dealerships, I recommend you all install dash cams. Then report bad behavior to corporate. You can check out my dashcam review in my blog. #10: http://e46cooling.blogspot.com/2016/...d-bmw-e46.html
My best policy after owning several cars (mostly BMWs) is don't let anyone touch your car except you. Unless necessary, warranty repairs, etc.
Example, my brand new IS200t that I just bought two weeks ago came with a nice sandpaper finish to its paint and scratches on the finish up the wazoo. I didn't notice until I brought it home. The car is silver so out in the sun you don't notice. Well the dealer is 40 miles away from me and I told them. They said bring it in and they'll take care of it. Yeah... I can see it now. A bunch of teenagers scrubbing my car down @ 100"mph" causing even more scratches to the paint. And I KNOW they won't clay the car (which is what's necessary because the car had obviously been sitting outdoors for some time). No thanks. I clayed and waxed the car myself. Now it feels like factory perfection. Only a job I could have done. Nobody will care enough about a car they don't own.
As for dealerships, I recommend you all install dash cams. Then report bad behavior to corporate. You can check out my dashcam review in my blog. #10: http://e46cooling.blogspot.com/2016/...d-bmw-e46.html