Interesting mustang 5.0, Rcf, m4 comparison
07-26-16, 03:11 PM
#31
Pole Position
Of all of the cars I considered before buying my RC F, the M4 was not even on the list. To me it's fugly. Performance matters little if the appearance of the car doesn't appeal to me. The Porsche Cayman S (981) was the closest to winning my money. I even went as far as getting a loan approval on it. But I bailed at the last minute. The next closest was a F-Type (V8). But the price killed it. After that the Vette. M4? Not even on the radar...
However, all I was stating is that most M owners don't cross shop Lexuses, but they will look at Mustangs, Camaros and Vettes regularly, sometimes even longing for a Mustang like the GT350.
I was simply making the observation that among a lot of car enthusiasts, Lexus is not seen as a 'performance car' company. I think it's sad, honestly, because they're missing out....but Lexus is simply not there yet, not well known in the broader marketplace for pure performance.
And I feel there's some upside to this, it makes RCFs rare. When you see one, it stands out. That's a good thing. I see BMW 4-series everywhere, but you don't see many RCs or IS'.
And before you guys get all defensive again, keep in mind, I've probably logged more Lexus miles than many of you having owned 3 (and still own 2 of them, all 550,000+ miles worth between them). So, like all of you, I'm a Lexus fan at heart.
But I'm a car fan more than a Lexus fan. So I got a BMW, because it had a lot of appeal, for me.....and I'm one of the M owners who didn't even think about cross-shopping Vettes, Mustangs or Camaros (they're just not my style). I cross-shopped RCFs, V cars and C63s. The M won out, this time.....but I still spend most of my time in my two Lexuses.
So, don't worry about what other people think about your car, just enjoy it. There will always be those that love your car (and your wife or girlfriend), and those that don't.
It's life.
Last edited by KevinGS; 07-26-16 at 03:30 PM.
07-26-16, 03:16 PM
#32
Pole Position
No need for all of that not everyone likes M cars not everyone likes F cars, not everyone likes (insert car). No hate from me or Kevin on the F at all, I'm glad they are out but majority of the M fan base won't consider an F just like some here won't consider a M. There are some that jump ship to either sides just the way it is. I mauled a E46 M3 in my SC300 years ago it had Supra swap making mid 5's at wheel but he didn't know that he said nice Toyota at light and after the beating he rolled up window at next light and said nothing. I laughed all the way home but I had a buddy at that time with a E46 M3 that was respectful of my setup. Point is everyone is different.
I like cars. I like Lexuses.
I also like German cars, and some American cars too.
I'm a car guy first, and really, I migrated to Lexus because of the strength and durability of the platform.
I migrated to a BMW recently because of the strength of its ability to make me feel like a kid behind the wheel.
Who knows what I'll get next, but now I'm trying to reverse the clock, so it will have to be even more fun.....and all these "toys" are made possible because my Lexuses are built like tanks and may last for another 5 to 10 years, giving me the ability to own less reliable toys, and turn them in when I'm finished. For me, it's a win-win.
07-26-16, 03:21 PM
#33
Exactly, plex
I like cars. I like Lexuses.
I also like German cars, and some American cars too.
I'm a car guy first, and really, I migrated to Lexus because of the strength and durability of the platform.
I migrated to a BMW recently because of the strength of its ability to make me feel like a kid behind the wheel.
Who knows what I'll get next, but now I'm trying to reverse the clock, so it will have to be even more fun.....and all these "toys" are made possible because my Lexuses are built like tanks and may last for another 5 to 10 years, giving me the ability to own less reliable toys, and turn them in when I'm finished. For me, it's a win-win.
I like cars. I like Lexuses.
I also like German cars, and some American cars too.
I'm a car guy first, and really, I migrated to Lexus because of the strength and durability of the platform.
I migrated to a BMW recently because of the strength of its ability to make me feel like a kid behind the wheel.
Who knows what I'll get next, but now I'm trying to reverse the clock, so it will have to be even more fun.....and all these "toys" are made possible because my Lexuses are built like tanks and may last for another 5 to 10 years, giving me the ability to own less reliable toys, and turn them in when I'm finished. For me, it's a win-win.
07-26-16, 03:52 PM
#35
Lead Lap
Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So arguing about what car looks better is silly. But I get it, cars are like wives, it's an emotional decision.....so at the mere thought of someone not loving what you love, it's easy to get overly-emotional about it. I understand, we're human.
However, all I was stating is that most M owners don't cross shop Lexuses, but they will look at Mustangs, Camaros and Vettes regularly, sometimes even longing for a Mustang like the GT350.
I was simply making the observation that among a lot of car enthusiasts, Lexus is not seen as a 'performance car' company. I think it's sad, honestly, because they're missing out....but Lexus is simply not there yet, not well known in the broader marketplace for pure performance.
And I feel there's some upside to this, it makes RCFs rare. When you see one, it stands out. That's a good thing. I see BMW 4-series everywhere, but you don't see many RCs or IS'.
And before you guys get all defensive again, keep in mind, I've probably logged more Lexus miles than many of you having owned 3 (and still own 2 of them, all 550,000+ miles worth between them). So, like all of you, I'm a Lexus fan at heart.
But I'm a car fan more than a Lexus fan. So I got a BMW, because it had a lot of appeal, for me.....and I'm one of the M owners who didn't even think about cross-shopping Vettes, Mustangs or Camaros (they're just not my style). I cross-shopped RCFs, V cars and C63s. The M won out, this time.....but I still spend most of my time in my two Lexuses.
So, don't worry about what other people think about your car, just enjoy it. There will always be those that love your car (and your wife or girlfriend), and those that don't. It's life.
However, all I was stating is that most M owners don't cross shop Lexuses, but they will look at Mustangs, Camaros and Vettes regularly, sometimes even longing for a Mustang like the GT350.
I was simply making the observation that among a lot of car enthusiasts, Lexus is not seen as a 'performance car' company. I think it's sad, honestly, because they're missing out....but Lexus is simply not there yet, not well known in the broader marketplace for pure performance.
And I feel there's some upside to this, it makes RCFs rare. When you see one, it stands out. That's a good thing. I see BMW 4-series everywhere, but you don't see many RCs or IS'.
And before you guys get all defensive again, keep in mind, I've probably logged more Lexus miles than many of you having owned 3 (and still own 2 of them, all 550,000+ miles worth between them). So, like all of you, I'm a Lexus fan at heart.
But I'm a car fan more than a Lexus fan. So I got a BMW, because it had a lot of appeal, for me.....and I'm one of the M owners who didn't even think about cross-shopping Vettes, Mustangs or Camaros (they're just not my style). I cross-shopped RCFs, V cars and C63s. The M won out, this time.....but I still spend most of my time in my two Lexuses.
So, don't worry about what other people think about your car, just enjoy it. There will always be those that love your car (and your wife or girlfriend), and those that don't.
It's life.
07-26-16, 04:58 PM
#36
Pole Position
I'm not emotional. I'm stating my opinion. As is everyone else, including you. I don't like the M4. I didn't like the M4 before I owned my RC F. If I wanted one I could have bought one for cheaper than my RC F. The rarity of the RC F is exactly why I bought it. I prefer things that not everyone has, or has had. The same is true of my women...
07-26-16, 05:45 PM
#37
"Tell them to own the RCF first"? 
German car enthusiasts won't even consider the RCF. They'll go test drive a Camaro SS and Mustang GTs (and not even the 350), and of course Type F's and AMGs, even Caddy V's....yet they won't even test drive an RCF. Think about that. Hec,some of them are on the Caddy and Ford forums, but you mention a Lexus, and most chuckle. But mention a GT350, and the M guys get real defensive about their purchase. It's funny to me.
So, Lexus has a long way to go to capture the German car enthusiasts....but until then, just be happy that the RCF and GSF are 2 of Lexus' best kept secrets. They're rare birds out in the streets, and I think you all should revel in that.
The new LC500 is going to help, but Lexus still needs another affordable, performance car (somewhere between $50k - $75k). Basically, they need another ISF.
Again, I'm a Lexus guy, I've owned 3, still own 2, swear by them......but when it came time for a coupe, I needed less grill. You can say I'm still adjusting to this latest generation. And the M has little traction, so it's dangerous....too much torque for the tires. It's far from perfect, but it's loads of fun....which I hope is the same thing you can say about the RCF.
German car enthusiasts won't even consider the RCF. They'll go test drive a Camaro SS and Mustang GTs (and not even the 350), and of course Type F's and AMGs, even Caddy V's....yet they won't even test drive an RCF. Think about that. Hec,some of them are on the Caddy and Ford forums, but you mention a Lexus, and most chuckle. But mention a GT350, and the M guys get real defensive about their purchase. It's funny to me.So, Lexus has a long way to go to capture the German car enthusiasts....but until then, just be happy that the RCF and GSF are 2 of Lexus' best kept secrets. They're rare birds out in the streets, and I think you all should revel in that.
The new LC500 is going to help, but Lexus still needs another affordable, performance car (somewhere between $50k - $75k). Basically, they need another ISF.
Again, I'm a Lexus guy, I've owned 3, still own 2, swear by them......but when it came time for a coupe, I needed less grill. You can say I'm still adjusting to this latest generation. And the M has little traction, so it's dangerous....too much torque for the tires. It's far from perfect, but it's loads of fun....which I hope is the same thing you can say about the RCF.
But, my lil' stable of cars are not usually the norm i don't think, because my Viper guys don't usually own German cars or an RCF. Just like my Porsche buddies don't usually have a Viper in their garage & i don't think any of them have an RCF in their garage either. I'm just a guy that Loves ALL cars & i don't specifically care the brand normally. But, i've never owned a Mustang or a Caddy, they really don't do anything for me, i've had a several BMW's & they're ok but to me they're waaaay over-priced & just bland looking.
07-26-16, 10:34 PM
#38
Driver School Candidate
I am a current owner of an IS350. Former owner of two IS300. I cross-shopped the RC-F and F80 M3 before pulling the trigger on the M3. I actually did buy an RC-F, which I then sold to my father in law. I still get to drive it once in a while 😂😂😂. It was an impulse purchase as I fell in love with the interior, but I just could not get past the front end. Ordered the M3 in May. It arrived at Port Hueneme just this past Sunday. Unfortunately there is a defect on the rear differential, so BMW has issued a stop sale/delivery on my car along with a few thousand other M2/3/4 5 and 6 series cars produced from May-July. I'm contemplating if I should proceed and wait for BMW to fix it as there is no eta on the solution.
07-27-16, 04:47 AM
#39
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
I am a current owner of an IS350. Former owner of two IS300. I cross-shopped the RC-F and F80 M3 before pulling the trigger on the M3. I actually did buy an RC-F, which I then sold to my father in law. I still get to drive it once in a while 😂😂😂. It was an impulse purchase as I fell in love with the interior, but I just could not get past the front end. Ordered the M3 in May. It arrived at Port Hueneme just this past Sunday. Unfortunately there is a defect on the rear differential, so BMW has issued a stop sale/delivery on my car along with a few thousand other M2/3/4 5 and 6 series cars produced from May-July. I'm contemplating if I should proceed and wait for BMW to fix it as there is no eta on the solution.
Good luck on the M3. Even if it gets delivered it might end up having more issues and spend a lot more time in the shop garage than yours.
07-27-16, 06:17 AM
#40
I am a current owner of an IS350. Former owner of two IS300. I cross-shopped the RC-F and F80 M3 before pulling the trigger on the M3. I actually did buy an RC-F, which I then sold to my father in law. I still get to drive it once in a while 😂😂😂. It was an impulse purchase as I fell in love with the interior, but I just could not get past the front end. Ordered the M3 in May. It arrived at Port Hueneme just this past Sunday. Unfortunately there is a defect on the rear differential, so BMW has issued a stop sale/delivery on my car along with a few thousand other M2/3/4 5 and 6 series cars produced from May-July. I'm contemplating if I should proceed and wait for BMW to fix it as there is no eta on the solution.
.... j/k
07-27-16, 06:21 AM
#41
Lexus Test Driver
Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So arguing about what car looks better is silly. But I get it, cars are like wives, it's an emotional decision.....so at the mere thought of someone not loving what you love, it's easy to get overly-emotional about it. I understand, we're human.
However, all I was stating is that most M owners don't cross shop Lexuses, but they will look at Mustangs, Camaros and Vettes regularly, sometimes even longing for a Mustang like the GT350.
I was simply making the observation that among a lot of car enthusiasts, Lexus is not seen as a 'performance car' company. I think it's sad, honestly, because they're missing out....but Lexus is simply not there yet, not well known in the broader marketplace for pure performance.
And I feel there's some upside to this, it makes RCFs rare. When you see one, it stands out. That's a good thing. I see BMW 4-series everywhere, but you don't see many RCs or IS'.
And before you guys get all defensive again, keep in mind, I've probably logged more Lexus miles than many of you having owned 3 (and still own 2 of them, all 550,000+ miles worth between them). So, like all of you, I'm a Lexus fan at heart.
But I'm a car fan more than a Lexus fan. So I got a BMW, because it had a lot of appeal, for me.....and I'm one of the M owners who didn't even think about cross-shopping Vettes, Mustangs or Camaros (they're just not my style). I cross-shopped RCFs, V cars and C63s. The M won out, this time.....but I still spend most of my time in my two Lexuses.
So, don't worry about what other people think about your car, just enjoy it. There will always be those that love your car (and your wife or girlfriend), and those that don't. It's life.
However, all I was stating is that most M owners don't cross shop Lexuses, but they will look at Mustangs, Camaros and Vettes regularly, sometimes even longing for a Mustang like the GT350.
I was simply making the observation that among a lot of car enthusiasts, Lexus is not seen as a 'performance car' company. I think it's sad, honestly, because they're missing out....but Lexus is simply not there yet, not well known in the broader marketplace for pure performance.
And I feel there's some upside to this, it makes RCFs rare. When you see one, it stands out. That's a good thing. I see BMW 4-series everywhere, but you don't see many RCs or IS'.
And before you guys get all defensive again, keep in mind, I've probably logged more Lexus miles than many of you having owned 3 (and still own 2 of them, all 550,000+ miles worth between them). So, like all of you, I'm a Lexus fan at heart.
But I'm a car fan more than a Lexus fan. So I got a BMW, because it had a lot of appeal, for me.....and I'm one of the M owners who didn't even think about cross-shopping Vettes, Mustangs or Camaros (they're just not my style). I cross-shopped RCFs, V cars and C63s. The M won out, this time.....but I still spend most of my time in my two Lexuses.
So, don't worry about what other people think about your car, just enjoy it. There will always be those that love your car (and your wife or girlfriend), and those that don't.
It's life.Prior to the Lexus facelift, redesign, new grills and the RCF, they were the last mid to high end brand I would consider purchasing as I though their cars were hideous and for grand parents. The RCF is a different beast and an incredible car for the money. It may take Lexus a while to shake it's deeply entrenched image as a grandpa car maker and perhaps some new sportier models like the LC-RC will help.
Regarding cross shopping, there is a huge used market for cheap M cars and used 335s that are priced comparably to the American muscle cars so that is more of a natural market for the market segment. I doubt guys purchasing new M, new AMGs and I know the Porsche guys don't usually cross shop for Mustangs, Cameros and Anerican muscle. Been around these guys, teach the to drive on race tracks and etc. and I never hear anything like what do you think about that new Mustang or Camero. There are other cars discussed, just not those . . ., but we are talking completely different markets.
Last edited by DougHII; 07-27-16 at 07:08 AM.
07-27-16, 06:25 AM
#42
Pole Position
Whoa now Kev, if you look at my sig. you would see i am one of those German car enthusiasts that DID consider an RCF, so much that i BOUGHT one! But, my lil' stable of cars are not usually the norm i don't think, because my Viper guys don't usually own German cars or an RCF. Just like my Porsche buddies don't usually have a Viper in their garage & i don't think any of them have an RCF in their garage either. I'm just a guy that Loves ALL cars & i don't specifically care the brand normally. But, i've never owned a Mustang or a Caddy, they really don't do anything for me, i've had a several BMW's & they're ok but to me they're waaaay over-priced & just bland looking.
But, my lil' stable of cars are not usually the norm i don't think, because my Viper guys don't usually own German cars or an RCF. Just like my Porsche buddies don't usually have a Viper in their garage & i don't think any of them have an RCF in their garage either. I'm just a guy that Loves ALL cars & i don't specifically care the brand normally. But, i've never owned a Mustang or a Caddy, they really don't do anything for me, i've had a several BMW's & they're ok but to me they're waaaay over-priced & just bland looking. I've never owned an American car, but I've seriously contemplated them recently, and it's not to say I won't get one in the future.And once I get adjusted to the front grill, I'll likely own another Lexus.
This is my first German car, and it's a lot of fun. It serves its purpose for me, for now.
I am a current owner of an IS350. Former owner of two IS300. I cross-shopped the RC-F and F80 M3 before pulling the trigger on the M3. I actually did buy an RC-F, which I then sold to my father in law. I still get to drive it once in a while ������. It was an impulse purchase as I fell in love with the interior, but I just could not get past the front end. Ordered the M3 in May. It arrived at Port Hueneme just this past Sunday. Unfortunately there is a defect on the rear differential, so BMW has issued a stop sale/delivery on my car along with a few thousand other M2/3/4 5 and 6 series cars produced from May-July. I'm contemplating if I should proceed and wait for BMW to fix it as there is no eta on the solution.
the front is what attracted me to buy the Rcf in the first place! Guess everyone has different taste and the front is too aggressive for toned down folks that like to blend in. Same goes for the colors.
Good luck on the M3. Even if it gets delivered it might end up having more issues and spend a lot more time in the shop garage than yours.
Good luck on the M3. Even if it gets delivered it might end up having more issues and spend a lot more time in the shop garage than yours.
But until the warranty is up, it's a helluva car to torture. LOL I've driven this car extremely hard, with many trips to the redline (and beyond when I forget to shift because everything is happening so fast), and it hasn't given me a single problem, yet (**finding wood to knock on**)...no overheating, no transmission hiccups, nada. So I will say this, BMW built the M to be punished, but then it will take you home dawdling along at a leisurely pace. It's a solid piece of engineering for sure, but no way are most M drivers owning this beyond the warranty period. Instead, they'll just trade it in, and get the "next best thing".
07-27-16, 08:34 AM
#43
Who cares, really? Maybe when I was 21 it mattered, but I could care less what perceived respect is given by the BMW crowd, lol. I used to own a BMW and belonged to at least two forums. A real car enthusiast wouldn't need convincing to entertain what any car brings to the table. A Japanese car with 5.0 468hp V8, purposely built on a sports car platform with technology and reliability to boot. I don't know about you, but this has never happened before. A real car enthusiast would acknowledge this. Respect, lol.
07-27-16, 08:47 AM
#44
Pole Position
Regarding cross shopping, there is a huge used market for cheap M cars and used 335s that are priced comparably to the American muscle cars so that is more of a natural market for the market segment. I doubt guys purchasing new M, new AMGs and I know the Porsche guys don't usually cross shop for Mustangs, Cameros and Anerican muscle. Been around these guys, teach the to drive on race tracks and etc. and I never hear anything like what do you think about that new Mustang or Camero. There are other cars discussed, just not those . . ., but we are talking completely different markets.
Never once have I heard someone even considering an RCF, the M's natural Japanese competitor, not even in the discussion, they don't even research the car. One day I asked why no one was considering an RCF, and I got blasted.
I share this so that we realize as Lexus fans that much of the car enthusiast marketplace still considers Lexus to be a Japanese Buick company, and they treat the previous ISF like an anomaly, a rare car in a lineup filled with luxury, comfort-focused vehicles. And the LFA, as great as it is, you almost never see them on the road....so it's a distant memory to most, even for diehard enthusiasts.
So because of this, Lexus doesn't sell many souped up F models, which means they don't spend a significant chunk of R&D trying to produce more F models. Sad for us, because we don't get 3 or 4 F models to choose from (i.e. ISF, GSF, RCF, LSF, RXF, etc.), instead we only get 1 or 2.
But that's good for you all that own F's, because what you're driving is a rare breed on the street....not a lot of F's on the road. Having a rare car has it's charm, I know I'd appreciate that.
Last edited by KevinGS; 07-27-16 at 08:58 AM.
07-27-16, 09:39 AM
#45
Lexus Test Driver
Quite a few threads in the M forum of people seriously considering GT350s, Camaro SS' and Vettes....some have even traded their M's in for GTs and Vettes (less so on the Camaros)....and of course quite a few migrate to AMGs and Porsches.
Never once have I heard someone even considering an RCF, the M's natural Japanese competitor, not even in the discussion, they don't even research the car. One day I asked why no one was considering an RCF, and I got blasted.
I share this so that we realize as Lexus fans that much of the car enthusiast marketplace still considers Lexus to be a Japanese Buick company, and they treat the previous ISF like an anomaly, a rare car in a lineup filled with luxury, comfort-focused vehicles. And the LFA, as great as it is, you almost never see them on the road....so it's a distant memory to most, even for diehard enthusiasts.
So because of this, Lexus doesn't sell many souped up F models, which means they don't spend a significant chunk of R&D trying to produce more F models. Sad for us, because we don't get 3 or 4 F models to choose from (i.e. ISF, GSF, RCF, LSF, RXF, etc.), instead we only get 1 or 2.
But that's good for you all that own F's, because what you're driving is a rare breed on the street....not a lot of F's on the road. Having a rare car has it's charm, I know I'd appreciate that.
Never once have I heard someone even considering an RCF, the M's natural Japanese competitor, not even in the discussion, they don't even research the car. One day I asked why no one was considering an RCF, and I got blasted.
I share this so that we realize as Lexus fans that much of the car enthusiast marketplace still considers Lexus to be a Japanese Buick company, and they treat the previous ISF like an anomaly, a rare car in a lineup filled with luxury, comfort-focused vehicles. And the LFA, as great as it is, you almost never see them on the road....so it's a distant memory to most, even for diehard enthusiasts.
So because of this, Lexus doesn't sell many souped up F models, which means they don't spend a significant chunk of R&D trying to produce more F models. Sad for us, because we don't get 3 or 4 F models to choose from (i.e. ISF, GSF, RCF, LSF, RXF, etc.), instead we only get 1 or 2.
But that's good for you all that own F's, because what you're driving is a rare breed on the street....not a lot of F's on the road. Having a rare car has it's charm, I know I'd appreciate that.
RE: Your comment about owning German cars out of warranty
You are correct about BMW. Lol, my one new M experience was so bad even though my too numerous to count trips to the dealer were covered by warranty . . . Never again.
You apparently don't know much about Porsches though. I put 35k, 55k and 80k on 3 911 turbos owned between 2001 and 2011 and only had an instrument cluster replaced when tail wouldn't go up in the 01. I drove my 97 for 4 years and cannot recall any issues in 4 years, but it has been a while. Throughout the years, the only 911 NA headaches were the pre-993 air cooled top end rebuilds generally required around 80k.
Turbo and NA 911s are generally bullet proof but for that random RMS/IMS that impacted the NA 996 and 997.1 motors.
I offered to buy my wife a M6 convertible here recently and she said "No, I will never let you buy another BMW after that M3 you had."
Last edited by DougHII; 07-27-16 at 10:00 AM.