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I have a new (5,000 miles) 2015 Lexus RC F.
I live in Los Angeles, CA and took it to the Willow Springs Race Track this week-end.
I'm nowhere near an expert racer. In fact, just starting out getting SCCA-certified/novice racing license. But I raced Karts / Motorcycles thirty years ago when I was in my 20's
The concept of having a luxury street car (daily-driver) that was also track-able was very appealing to me, which I why I settled on the Lexus RC F. I was between a (gasp!) BMW M4 and the RC. I had test driven the M4 first - and the local BMW dealer was really driving a deal. The sales guy got me a week-end driving Bimmers at their new (exclusive) BMW Thermal racetrack in Cochella, CA. It was a blast! For what it's worth - the M4 is an extremely balanced and predictable car to drive on the track.
However I LOVED the aggressive and beautiful lines of the Lexus! The BMW M4 is really plain Jane compared to the RC F, but Jeremy Clarkson's (bogus) test drive compare between the two had me believing that the RCF was a bloated, under-powered BOAT-of-a -car. And after buying a 4-cyl Mitsu Eclipse (I also had the SIX, which I loved) I swore that I would never make the same mistake again!
And then I test drove an RCF...
I was blown away by it, and immediately bought one. The V-8 response AND sound was incredible. That was a couple of months ago.
NOW, my (brief) impressions from the track at Willows (the FASTEST track in the west)
The RCF is very well behaved and STABLE. Even in "EXPERT" mode (which it was in the whole time out there). It is as sure-footed a car as any. You really have to force and provoke it to go sideways and break traction, which at any time you can easily correct. It's chassis is definitely tuned to favor under-steering, which is fine because the THROTTLE steering responsiveness is so great! In fact, one of the racing instructors remarked at how sure-footed the car was... ESPECIALLY with the Torque vectoring, etc. I told him that I had all of the Traction Control, etc. OFF. We both got a laugh out of that!
I pushed it hard for two days straight, 4-6 hours of nearly continuous track duty - and it didn't miss a beat. NO brake fade. No overheating. It wasn't even breaking a sweat. Now, admittedly - it was pretty cold out in the mornings, but still - it was pushed hard and it got pretty warm in the afternoon in the desert hills of Lancaster, CA. I recently installed an RR Racing AOS ("Oil catch can"). Checked it when I got home...not a DROP of oil to be found. The only other modification I made was I purchased a set of new FEDERAL FormozaFD2 tires for the track (definitely wasn't going to "run down" my $1,200 set OEM Michelin Pilot's). Also have a set of RR Racing's USRS LCA bushings - that I didn't get a chance to put on.
The only real problem I had is that I really couldn't (wouldn't) push it to the "ragged edge" - and that hampered it's (and my) performance. The track at Willow is extremely challenging and technical - so I always maintained a margin of safety (i.e track space) because, well - it's a $75K Lexus!? Sorry, but I just couldn't do it. The other observation is that the lighter, smaller cars on the track also seemed to be able to pull much more lateral G's on the sweeping long arced sections of the track - they were "walking" away from me at times, however in the tight "S" curves, the Lexus performed very well - especially with the previously mentioned THROTTLE STEER.
This revelation is leading me to the conclusion that if I really desire to push my amateur RACING career forward, I'm better off cruising my RCF beauty down the boulevard - and buying a '91 240SX, modding it full out - for when I want to really toss a car around on the streets of Willow, without being a nervous wreck. I will still occasionally let the Lexus out on the track from time to time - after all, it was MADE for the track; and it shows...
Very cool. Glad you had a great time and are interested in track stuff. I have had the pleasure and great fortune of being around the track and racing since since late 70s, 48 now. The 240 sounds fun, but you may also consider a spec Miata or a spec racer ford. A lot of guys also have great fun in Honda H5 itb. Great and somewhat economical way to enter the sport and learn the ropes.
Anyone else have experience taking the RCF to a drag strip? I recently took mine to Homestead Miami Speedway for the 1/8th mile drag strip races and was running 8.6 to 8.7 consistently at about 85-88 mph. My RCF only had about 300 miles on it at the time (this is how I break in my engine ). It wasn't bad, I beat a '15 5.0 Mustang, a '98 supercharged Mustang, a '15 Impreza WRX with upgraded turbo and tune twice, and a (not sure what year) R32 VW GTI Turbo.
In sport + mode I had issues getting off the line though, I either spun tires a little if I used torque brake or took off too slow without torque braking. And when I put the car in Expert mode it almost went sideways on me from the launch lol (this was the only race I lost, got a 9.6 on this one).
Anyone have a better method of getting off the line as quick as possible since this car does not have a real launch mode? I'm planning on taking my RCF on January 2nd to Palm Beach International Raceway for the 1/4th mile drag strip races to see how I fare.
Here are some comparative track times for Willow: the RC F is 14/87 in the times and in excellent company. The car nicely holds its own on the track. Once you have experienced some drifting in the car you rapidly realize the car allows you to be in control with throttle steering corrections.
ISF001 thanks for this! I knew that the RC came in just 3/10ths of a sec. behind the M4 (which luckily for BMW it panned out this way - or their Chief Engineer would have had some serious explaining to do!!), HOWEVER - I had NO idea that compared to the rest of the platforms out there, just how high the RC F ranked. That's awesome. Now I'm definitely glad that I got the Lexus. The issue with the M4 is that the tail-end is a little bit "too loose" for my liking, now that I've had a chance to drive both on the track. The Bimmer "wants" to get sideways so much, that I feel it can actually lull you into taking on that style of driving. In the Lexus I feel that it "helps" me be a better driver because it's such a great "point and shoot" chassis.
And as far as the throttle-steer response, if you can commit to it - there's no other option for this car.
Again, thanks for the info.
BTW - I went to the Danny McKeever Racing School SCCA-accredited two-day course, which I highly recommend. Danny, Jim and the other instructors were great - and I really improved a good deal. Probably will return in the spring for a follow up.
I'm glad the tires worked out for you and you had a great time. Did you install the smart controller also?
-Zach
Thanks Zach,
You guys are great. No, I didn't get a chance to install the APEXI - I barely got my AOS "catch can" put in the night before, but I plan to put it in next week when I'm on vacation. I'm also gonna install some carbon-fiber accents on the exterior and maybe even paint or powder-coat my brake calipers!
I think that Orange will look great along with the UltraSonic BLUE on the body.
HehHeh!
The next mod after that will probably be the new Titanium Air Intake from R&R. I like it better than the LEMS - and the price is right too!
ISF001 thanks for this! I knew that the RC came in just 3/10ths of a sec. behind the M4 (which luckily for BMW it panned out this way - or their Chief Engineer would have had some serious explaining to do!!), HOWEVER - I had NO idea that compared to the rest of the platforms out there, just how high the RC F ranked. That's awesome. Now I'm definitely glad that I got the Lexus. The issue with the M4 is that the tail-end is a little bit "too loose" for my liking, now that I've had a chance to drive both on the track. The Bimmer "wants" to get sideways so much, that I feel it can actually lull you into taking on that style of driving. In the Lexus I feel that it "helps" me be a better driver because it's such a great "point and shoot" chassis.
And as far as the throttle-steer response, if you can commit to it - there's no other option for this car.
Again, thanks for the info.
BTW - I went to the Danny McKeever Racing School SCCA-accredited two-day course, which I highly recommend. Danny, Jim and the other instructors were great - and I really improved a good deal. Probably will return in the spring for a follow up.
Great post. I really enjoyed reading it. Nice to see our RCF is performing so well against competition. I have yet to track mine but there is a very nice track about 30 miles away that is beckoning me and I plan to visit it in the spring. Thanks again for sharing.
I told him that I had all of the Traction Control, etc. OFF. We both got a laugh out of that!
Hey Keith, in case you didn't know, you did NOT have stability control fully off, even when the dash lights seemed to indicate that. The good news? No need to be a nervous wreck, since you were plenty safe. Expert mode allows you to have plenty of fun. But if you get the car sideways more than probably 25º, it'd kick in and save the day. I tried it and in expert mode VSC intervened nicely (VSC flashes on the dash). Turned everything off, tried again, and spun out. By the way, to turn everything off you have to hold the button down for about 3 seconds while in sport+ mode, and the only difference between expert and all off, is the 'expert' light off. I honestly don't see the need to turn everything off, unless it's not your car, like we (salesman is a friend of mine, and an excellent driver) were doing on an executive demo. But am curious to hear your input next time you take it to the track. Push the car in expert mode until VSC intervenes, and let us know if you need any more than that. Probably not, since drifting is never the fastest way around a track, especially by more than a few degrees when throttle steering (and 'expert' allows plenty of that). Hope this helps man, and welcome to the family.
Hey Keith, in case you didn't know, you did NOT have stability control fully off, even when the dash lights seemed to indicate that. The good news? No need to be a nervous wreck, since you were plenty safe. Expert mode allows you to have plenty of fun. But if you get the car sideways more than probably 25º, it'd kick in and save the day. I tried it and in expert mode VSC intervened nicely (VSC flashes on the dash). Turned everything off, tried again, and spun out. By the way, to turn everything off you have to hold the button down for about 3 seconds while in sport+ mode, and the only difference between expert and all off, is the 'expert' light off. I honestly don't see the need to turn everything off, unless it's not your car, like we (salesman is a friend of mine, and an excellent driver) were doing on an executive demo. But am curious to hear your input next time you take it to the track. Push the car in expert mode until VSC intervenes, and let us know if you need any more than that. Probably not, since drifting is never the fastest way around a track, especially by more than a few degrees when throttle steering (and 'expert' allows plenty of that). Hope this helps man, and welcome to the family.
Throttle steering does not mean drifting. Drifting is just an overstated example of a use of throttle steering that novices tend to equate with the term. I think he was referring to, my assumption since he receiving instruction from someone who know what they are doing, proper use of the throttle to control the arc. That is the fastest way around the track and a skill needed if one is to transition to higher driving levels and approach the limits of a car or motorcycle the track.
I typically tried to teach students to use tiny throttle inputs to control arc early in the process and once they demonstrated proper use of maintenance throttle. Some begin to develop the feel after a few weekends at the track, some never do and do good just to use maintenance throttle to cruise through turns at 7 or 8/10ths even after years of driving on the track.
RE: Nannies
I don't like nannies. They are unsettling to me when they kick in, but I am dang glad when lower level students have them. That said, nothing better than learning car control and technique in a momentum car that has zero nannies be it an Elise, an old Miata or something simple like a Formula Dodge/Mazda like we used at Skip Barber. Nice to learn on tracks with huge run offs unlike many where I instructed, Laguna Seca, Barber, RA, Gateway used to create a pucker factor for sure. Willow, Putnam VIR and etc are great places to learn.
Indeed. And that was exactly my point. If you're throttle steering and overdo it a little (rotating car), causing a slight drift, nannies won't intervene in 'expert' mode. So that mode is not a hindrance when not purposely drifting. I encouraged the OP to overdo it (to drift) on purpose so he knows the limits that 'expert' allows. And yes, all testers do nowadays for their stupid publications is drift any RWD (or even FWD) car just because it looks 'cool'. It's stupid, slower, and you eat your expensive tires for breakfast.
That's it exactly..."use of throttle steering to control the arc" and then "maintenance throttle". This is in lieu of braking to control the situation. Brakes=Slowing Down, Throttle=Speeding Up (or maintaining Speed).
For the above reasons, including:
DRIFTING (SLIDING) IS:
1) It's slower around turns (though not quite as "sexy" I guess in today's younger sub-culture - i.e. the "fast and furious" crowd) - who probably have never even seen a track. Actually when I was in my 20's - I was one of 'em. Had the "wink" mirror, the cabin net, the FIRE EXTINGUISHER...What the F#&^ do you need a fire extinguisher for???
Anyway - the girls liked it! LOL
2) It's a sure quick way to generate lots of "good looking" smoke - and $$$$ along with it in (expensive) tires.
3) It can be dangerous as well - because at that point you're not PREDICTABLE on the track - and predictability is the name of the game, for yours - and your fellow racer's benefit.
My goal is to never reach that 25 DEG sideways angle. But thanks for the clarification.
As the instructor told us - "every time you're not accelerating in a straight-line, you're going slower around the track than everyone who is!"
The other quote I remember is:
"You got go SLOW (at the RIGHT speed) to go FAST!"
Oh, by the way. The brakes were ROCK SOLID. ZERO fade - at all. They were the OEM pads. When they wear out I will probably get some Hawk HPS's.
12-15-15, 09:56 PM
Took my new RC F to the track
). It wasn't bad, I beat a '15 5.0 Mustang, a '98 supercharged Mustang, a '15 Impreza WRX with upgraded turbo and tune twice, and a (not sure what year) R32 VW GTI Turbo.
. But am curious to hear your input next time you take it to the track. Push the car in expert mode until VSC intervenes, and let us know if you need any more than that. Probably not, since drifting is never the fastest way around a track, especially by more than a few degrees when throttle steering (and 'expert' allows plenty of that). Hope this helps man, and welcome to the family.
