RS-R vs KWv3 coilovers
11-17-15, 07:38 PM
#1
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
RS-R vs KWv3 vs Penske vs FIGS coilovers
Last edited by jsmacks; 11-20-15 at 10:48 AM.
11-18-15, 05:43 AM
#2
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rc-...r-the-rcf.html
The RRRacing / Penske system offers more adjustability, better quality, and further is independently dyno tested (yes, the shocks) likewise track tested for true street / track applications. I have been working with Rafi for over a month to get this system completely dialed in for the RCF.
This system doesnt disappoint.
11-18-15, 06:24 AM
#3
Sponsor
iTrader: (1)
Josh, thank you for the review.
I put together a quick list comparing our RR-Racing/Penskes to RSR & KW:
(1) We use a "True Rear Coilover" NOT divorced spring setup like RSR and KW. This allows us to run significantly higher spring rates while maintaining sufficient droop suspension travel. Suspension travel is essential for maintaining control and tire contact with the road.
(2) Our spring rates area about 60% higher than RSR and KW... ALL WHILE MAINTAINING EXCELLENT ROAD COMFORT. High spring rates are key to taming the weight transfer of a heavy car like the RCF, and making it handle like a BRZ.
(3) Every Penske Racing Shock is 100% made in USA, and is assembled by the same techs/engineers who build IndyCar, NASCAR, LMP1, TransAm, etc shocks. Same attention to detail goes into making our shocks as they put into making the uber-expensive race car shocks. EVERY shock gets dyno tested prior to release.
(4) We use helper springs (not "pre-loaded" springs like BC, RSR, etc) and we do not use fixed upper perches. Helper springs help us to get adequate droop travel to maintain tire contact with the road. Upper spring perches keep the spring from bowing.
(5) We include all spherical bearing top mounts. We do not fit our coilovers with any rubber isolators nor do we reuse stock upper mounts as does KW.
(6) KW coilovers are made of steel and are heavy. Penske Shocks are 100% billet aluminum. They save about 20lbs over stock components and KW. Penske 7500 shocks are MONOTUBE construction (KW are twin tube) and feature independent Compression and Rebound adjustment.
(7) SUPPORT: Of you every damage a shock due to an accident, Penske shocks are totally rebuildable and serviceable. More importantly, they have a quick turnaround time and keep all the parts in stock at their Reading, PA facility. RR-Racing is located 20min from Penske, so we can make sure you are taken care of should the need arise.
In short... you get what you pay for.
-Rafi
I put together a quick list comparing our RR-Racing/Penskes to RSR & KW:
(1) We use a "True Rear Coilover" NOT divorced spring setup like RSR and KW. This allows us to run significantly higher spring rates while maintaining sufficient droop suspension travel. Suspension travel is essential for maintaining control and tire contact with the road.
(2) Our spring rates area about 60% higher than RSR and KW... ALL WHILE MAINTAINING EXCELLENT ROAD COMFORT. High spring rates are key to taming the weight transfer of a heavy car like the RCF, and making it handle like a BRZ.
(3) Every Penske Racing Shock is 100% made in USA, and is assembled by the same techs/engineers who build IndyCar, NASCAR, LMP1, TransAm, etc shocks. Same attention to detail goes into making our shocks as they put into making the uber-expensive race car shocks. EVERY shock gets dyno tested prior to release.
(4) We use helper springs (not "pre-loaded" springs like BC, RSR, etc) and we do not use fixed upper perches. Helper springs help us to get adequate droop travel to maintain tire contact with the road. Upper spring perches keep the spring from bowing.
(5) We include all spherical bearing top mounts. We do not fit our coilovers with any rubber isolators nor do we reuse stock upper mounts as does KW.
(6) KW coilovers are made of steel and are heavy. Penske Shocks are 100% billet aluminum. They save about 20lbs over stock components and KW. Penske 7500 shocks are MONOTUBE construction (KW are twin tube) and feature independent Compression and Rebound adjustment.
(7) SUPPORT: Of you every damage a shock due to an accident, Penske shocks are totally rebuildable and serviceable. More importantly, they have a quick turnaround time and keep all the parts in stock at their Reading, PA facility. RR-Racing is located 20min from Penske, so we can make sure you are taken care of should the need arise.
In short... you get what you pay for.
-Rafi
__________________
We Engineer Track Proven Upgrades For Your Lexus!
SUPERCHARGERS : ECU TUNING : SUSPENSION : EXHAUST : PPE MASTER DEALER
SUPERCHARGERS : ECU TUNING : SUSPENSION : EXHAUST : PPE MASTER DEALER
Last edited by RRRacing; 11-18-15 at 12:27 PM.
11-18-15, 07:00 AM
#4
Driver
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: manama
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Josh, thank you for the review.
I put together a quick list comparing our RR-Racing/Penskes to RSR & KW:
(1) We use a "True Rear Coilover" NOT divorced spring setup like RSR and KW. This allows us to run significantly higher spring rates while maintaining sufficient droop suspension travel. Suspension travel is essential for maintaining control and tire contact with the road.
(2) Our spring rates area about 60% higher than RSR and KW... ALL WHILE MAINTAINING EXCELLENT ROAD COMFORT. High spring rates are key to taming the weight transfer of a heavy car like the RCF, and making it handle like a BRZ.
(3) Every Penske Racing Shock is 100% made in USA, and is assembled by the same techs/engineers who build IndyCar, NASCAR, LMP1, TransAm, etc shocks. Same attention to detail goes into making our shocks as they put into making the uber-expensive race car shocks. EVERY shock gets dyno tested prior to release.
(4) We use helper springs and we do not use fixed upper perches. Helper springs help us to get adequate droop travel to maintain tire contact with the road. Upper spring perches keep the spring from bowing.
(5) We include all spherical bearing top mounts. We do not fit our coilovers with any rubber isolators nor do we reuse stock upper mounts as does KW.
(6) KW coilovers are made of steel and are heavy. Penske Shocks are 100% billet aluminum. They save about 20lbs over stock components and KW. Penske 7500 shocks are MONOTUBE construction (KW are twin tube) and feature independent Compression and Rebound adjustment.
(7) SUPPORT: Of you every damage a shock due to an accident, Penske shocks are totally rebuildable and serviceable. More importantly, they have a quick turnaround time and keep all the parts in stock at their Reading, PA facility. RR-Racing is located 20min from Penske, so we can make sure you are taken care of should the need arise.
In short... you get what you pay for.
-Rafi
I put together a quick list comparing our RR-Racing/Penskes to RSR & KW:
(1) We use a "True Rear Coilover" NOT divorced spring setup like RSR and KW. This allows us to run significantly higher spring rates while maintaining sufficient droop suspension travel. Suspension travel is essential for maintaining control and tire contact with the road.
(2) Our spring rates area about 60% higher than RSR and KW... ALL WHILE MAINTAINING EXCELLENT ROAD COMFORT. High spring rates are key to taming the weight transfer of a heavy car like the RCF, and making it handle like a BRZ.
(3) Every Penske Racing Shock is 100% made in USA, and is assembled by the same techs/engineers who build IndyCar, NASCAR, LMP1, TransAm, etc shocks. Same attention to detail goes into making our shocks as they put into making the uber-expensive race car shocks. EVERY shock gets dyno tested prior to release.
(4) We use helper springs and we do not use fixed upper perches. Helper springs help us to get adequate droop travel to maintain tire contact with the road. Upper spring perches keep the spring from bowing.
(5) We include all spherical bearing top mounts. We do not fit our coilovers with any rubber isolators nor do we reuse stock upper mounts as does KW.
(6) KW coilovers are made of steel and are heavy. Penske Shocks are 100% billet aluminum. They save about 20lbs over stock components and KW. Penske 7500 shocks are MONOTUBE construction (KW are twin tube) and feature independent Compression and Rebound adjustment.
(7) SUPPORT: Of you every damage a shock due to an accident, Penske shocks are totally rebuildable and serviceable. More importantly, they have a quick turnaround time and keep all the parts in stock at their Reading, PA facility. RR-Racing is located 20min from Penske, so we can make sure you are taken care of should the need arise.
In short... you get what you pay for.
-Rafi
11-18-15, 12:29 PM
#5
Sponsor
iTrader: (1)
http://www.rr-racing.com/Racing-Pens...rcxfsu0002.htm
And dont forget about our URSR (Ultimate Steering Response System):
http://www.rr-racing.com/Lexus-Lower...isfxlca001.htm
__________________
We Engineer Track Proven Upgrades For Your Lexus!
SUPERCHARGERS : ECU TUNING : SUSPENSION : EXHAUST : PPE MASTER DEALER
SUPERCHARGERS : ECU TUNING : SUSPENSION : EXHAUST : PPE MASTER DEALER
11-18-15, 01:58 PM
#6
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
More adjustability in what way?
Better quality how?
Would you be able to quantify both of these statements with comparative details?
One concern I have with the Penske system is that it seems very track oriented. My car will never see a track or possibly a smooth road ever in it's life being as that I live in Hawaii on Oahu with skinny, rough, pothole filled roads and lots of cars. My biggest concern after overall build quality is rideability, comfort and dampening options.
From the Penske site - "Our goal was to achieve instant turn-in response, at-the -limit balance and predictability at the track, all while maintaining poise and reasonable comfort on the street. "
That to me sounds very track oriented with a "reasonable" concern to every day driveability and comfort. I need a greater focus on average street use for my intended use of the car.
Honestly asking.. I would really love to know facts. The KWs look pretty nice for what I'm looking at doing with them..
Last edited by jsmacks; 11-18-15 at 02:05 PM.
11-18-15, 03:12 PM
#7
I would venture to say you haven't read the links not the info above. If you have, you'd realize the rrracing system was tested the backroads on PA. To use one word, the roads suck. Pothole ridden, ruts, uneven, and they use oil and gravel to fill in the holes. Needless to say, when driving slow or fast the car ate it up. Kindly refocus above. All your questions pertaining to quality and craftmenship are answered.
Do know I'm not trying to be smart Or brash. I just believe you overlooked some key points that were made in prior posts
Do know I'm not trying to be smart Or brash. I just believe you overlooked some key points that were made in prior posts
Trending Topics
11-18-15, 03:27 PM
#9
Sponsor
iTrader: (1)
More adjustability in what way?
Better quality how?
Would you be able to quantify both of these statements with comparative details?
One concern I have with the Penske system is that it seems very track oriented. My car will never see a track or possibly a smooth road ever in it's life being as that I live in Hawaii on Oahu with skinny, rough, pothole filled roads and lots of cars. My biggest concern after overall build quality is rideability, comfort and dampening options.
From the Penske site - "Our goal was to achieve instant turn-in response, at-the -limit balance and predictability at the track, all while maintaining poise and reasonable comfort on the street. "
That to me sounds very track oriented with a "reasonable" concern to every day driveability and comfort. I need a greater focus on average street use for my intended use of the car.
Honestly asking.. I would really love to know facts. The KWs look pretty nice for what I'm looking at doing with them..
Better quality how?
Would you be able to quantify both of these statements with comparative details?
One concern I have with the Penske system is that it seems very track oriented. My car will never see a track or possibly a smooth road ever in it's life being as that I live in Hawaii on Oahu with skinny, rough, pothole filled roads and lots of cars. My biggest concern after overall build quality is rideability, comfort and dampening options.
From the Penske site - "Our goal was to achieve instant turn-in response, at-the -limit balance and predictability at the track, all while maintaining poise and reasonable comfort on the street. "
That to me sounds very track oriented with a "reasonable" concern to every day driveability and comfort. I need a greater focus on average street use for my intended use of the car.
Honestly asking.. I would really love to know facts. The KWs look pretty nice for what I'm looking at doing with them..
Regarding build quality, I simply ask you to research a thing or two about "Penske Racing Shocks." These are the best of the best and if every shock did not perform flawlessly on the track, they would not be used so extensively in every form of racing.
If you have no real focus on performance then my best advice is you can save your money and not buy our coilovers, or RSRS, or KW.... just get lowering springs and call it a day.
Our product is about street and track performance. They are equally capable on the street and the track -- but they will really be appreciated by those who know how to push their RCF's to the limit. From a performance perspective, I am 100% confidant our setup is in another league compared to anything else currently available. KW's *may* be more comfortable, or may not, I cannot say.
Rafi
__________________
We Engineer Track Proven Upgrades For Your Lexus!
SUPERCHARGERS : ECU TUNING : SUSPENSION : EXHAUST : PPE MASTER DEALER
SUPERCHARGERS : ECU TUNING : SUSPENSION : EXHAUST : PPE MASTER DEALER
11-18-15, 03:44 PM
#10
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
..but again.. I would ask you directly as a company to quantify exactly where your claim of "the best of the best" and "better quality" comes from. Surely.. you should be able to quantify this with exact details. Is the grade of rubber you use in your seals superior? Your metal of a higher quality? Your bounce more for the ounce? What? Simply telling a potential customer to "Google it" instead of coming out with it is definitely not the best choice of play.
..and of course I'm worried about performance and quality, or I wouldn't even need lowering springs or a even a Lexus for that matter. I would be hack sawing the OEM coils on my '96 Civic. Let's be real here. I'm interested properly building for my intended purposes, a brand new, $80,000 refined sports car.
What I don't want is a track focused system that is built more for drifting through mirror smooth s-curves with only "reasonable" concern for every day, real world conditions and driving.
What can you tell me in quantifiable terms how your product is better than XYZ.. OR.. tell me how your race prepped applications are suitable for every day driving as well.. with quantifiable points rather than hyperbole? That's all I'm asking. All ears.
..and of course I'm worried about performance and quality, or I wouldn't even need lowering springs or a even a Lexus for that matter. I would be hack sawing the OEM coils on my '96 Civic. Let's be real here. I'm interested properly building for my intended purposes, a brand new, $80,000 refined sports car.
What I don't want is a track focused system that is built more for drifting through mirror smooth s-curves with only "reasonable" concern for every day, real world conditions and driving.
What can you tell me in quantifiable terms how your product is better than XYZ.. OR.. tell me how your race prepped applications are suitable for every day driving as well.. with quantifiable points rather than hyperbole? That's all I'm asking. All ears.
Last edited by jsmacks; 11-18-15 at 03:48 PM.
11-18-15, 06:53 PM
#11
..but again.. I would ask you directly as a company to quantify exactly where your claim of "the best of the best" and "better quality" comes from. Surely.. you should be able to quantify this with exact details. Is the grade of rubber you use in your seals superior? Your metal of a higher quality? Your bounce more for the ounce? What? Simply telling a potential customer to "Google it" instead of coming out with it is definitely not the best choice of play.
..and of course I'm worried about performance and quality, or I wouldn't even need lowering springs or a even a Lexus for that matter. I would be hack sawing the OEM coils on my '96 Civic. Let's be real here. I'm interested properly building for my intended purposes, a brand new, $80,000 refined sports car.
What I don't want is a track focused system that is built more for drifting through mirror smooth s-curves with only "reasonable" concern for every day, real world conditions and driving.
What can you tell me in quantifiable terms how your product is better than XYZ.. OR.. tell me how your race prepped applications are suitable for every day driving as well.. with quantifiable points rather than hyperbole? That's all I'm asking. All ears.
..and of course I'm worried about performance and quality, or I wouldn't even need lowering springs or a even a Lexus for that matter. I would be hack sawing the OEM coils on my '96 Civic. Let's be real here. I'm interested properly building for my intended purposes, a brand new, $80,000 refined sports car.
What I don't want is a track focused system that is built more for drifting through mirror smooth s-curves with only "reasonable" concern for every day, real world conditions and driving.
What can you tell me in quantifiable terms how your product is better than XYZ.. OR.. tell me how your race prepped applications are suitable for every day driving as well.. with quantifiable points rather than hyperbole? That's all I'm asking. All ears.
I have nothing against any manufacturer. The initial request was to be enlightened about a new product. Instead of becoming knowledgeable or asking pointed questions to understand more.....you became an internet troll. This is a place of education and people deserve to be treated with respect. You sir, are quite disrespectful.
Admis you can take it from here
11-18-15, 07:34 PM
#12
Driver
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: manama
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
11-19-15, 06:11 AM
#14
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Alberta
Posts: 878
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Once more I'm going to request you read and not respond prior to doing so. The 3rd post really covers the full aspect of your rant. Furthermore, you should respect your audience and realize the caliber of intelligence of the individuals that are responding tto you. I find it funny you're throwing out the price of the car, yet you're not special. We all paid that price to be here. We have the same car. So once more, with respect read in detail. If you don't understand, take your own advise and " google it ".
I have nothing against any manufacturer. The initial request was to be enlightened about a new product. Instead of becoming knowledgeable or asking pointed questions to understand more.....you became an internet troll. This is a place of education and people deserve to be treated with respect. You sir, are quite disrespectful.
Admis you can take it from here
I have nothing against any manufacturer. The initial request was to be enlightened about a new product. Instead of becoming knowledgeable or asking pointed questions to understand more.....you became an internet troll. This is a place of education and people deserve to be treated with respect. You sir, are quite disrespectful.
Admis you can take it from here
I believe the Penske Coils may be too track oriented for your need OP. They are of phenomenal design and engineering however the KW's can be set up to be extremely plush (albeit slightly bouncy)
I have no experience with the RSR coils and therefore cannot comment
11-19-15, 06:42 AM
#15
Sponsor
iTrader: (1)
I don't believe he is trolling by any means; he is asking legitimate questions prior to dropping $3500usd on a set of coilover's which may or may not suit his needs.
I believe the Penske Coils may be too track oriented for your need OP. They are of phenomenal design and engineering however the KW's can be set up to be extremely plush (albeit slightly bouncy)
I have no experience with the RSR coils and therefore cannot comment
I believe the Penske Coils may be too track oriented for your need OP. They are of phenomenal design and engineering however the KW's can be set up to be extremely plush (albeit slightly bouncy)
I have no experience with the RSR coils and therefore cannot comment
I think what folks don't realize is how comfortable the RRR/Penske setup is. You can set it up to be as comfortable as stock, without being bouncy, and while still using 60% higher spring rates than RSR/KW to control weight transfer. Reason KW's get bouncy is that they have soft springs and rely on the bump stops to increase the effective spring rate. When a suspension starts riding on bump stops the spring rate ramps up very rapidly (in a non-linear way) which is not good for ride or handling.
My advice to the OP is if he has no interest in improving the handling of his car, and mainly concerned with NVH and ride.... save yourself a ton of $$ and get a good set of lowering springs.
Rafi
__________________
We Engineer Track Proven Upgrades For Your Lexus!
SUPERCHARGERS : ECU TUNING : SUSPENSION : EXHAUST : PPE MASTER DEALER
SUPERCHARGERS : ECU TUNING : SUSPENSION : EXHAUST : PPE MASTER DEALER