JCtx

Hey gang, looking to get back into the Lexus family for the 5th time. It's been a while since the last SC430. Made a mistake buying the GTR, thinking it was more of a fast GT car due to its size, weight, and being a 4-seater. But feels more of a crude and heavy sports car, if you can call it that. My main beefs are the uncomfortable seats, that even caused cramping on my 160# frame, and how noisy it is on the highway, augmented by the engine screaming in 6th gear at the tune of 4K rpm at the ton. The last 2 things that are also pushing me to sell is the car was softened for 2015, and it now has too much body-roll IMO. And you CANNOT deactivate traction/stability control without voiding the powertrain warranty (had to sign a form to that effect). At least now launching doesn't void it anymore, but it's quick enough without having to do that. By the way, I only drive this car in manual mode, and that's exactly the way I plan to drive my next, now that manual trannies are basically a thing of the past.

Anyway, that's why I'm looking into a true GT car now. And the RC-F is at the top of my list. I'm fine giving up all-out speed for more refinement and luxury, which is what a GT car is all about. Drove one yesterday, and before getting to my disappointments and requests, let me say I was VERY impressed with the seats, steering wheel, overall driving position, etc. The ML stereo is simply fantastic as well. And the luxury options enough. Ride quietness is also enough. Was expecting a bit quieter being a Lexus, but it's entirely acceptable, especially compared to the very noisy GTR. One reviewer said it was as noisy as a cheap subcompact, but that's not the case IMO. Minor detractions were the minivan-like parking brake pedal, the very small screen, the infuriating infotainment controller, lack of bolster adjustment GSs have, and lack of the adjustable suspension even 'lowly' F-sport RCs have (that one is a head-scratcher). But the biggest omission of all was the lack of a DCT tranny. And the annoying and artificial cabin engine noise. THAT's where I need your help folks. Let me address my issues and requests one by one, to hopefully get help here:

1. Super delayed downshifts in manual mode, even in sport+ mode. Keep in mind this was on a non-perf pack car. Here's what I need you to try folks, in each of the performance modes (sport, sport+, expert, etc), AND manual mode: Do an aggressive (not WOT needed) roll-on upshifting from 2 to 6th gear at about 5 to 6K rpm. Notice how long it takes for the tranny to upshift from the moment you press the paddle. Then release the throttle (coasting) and start downshifting (engine braking), getting the rpm to the same 6K rpm or so. DID THE DOWNSHIFTS TAKE LONGER? AND HOW LONGER? Now get the car to 7th at a low speed, and downshift on the throttle for more power, like simulating a 2-lane highway pass. And quickly drop 2 or 3 gears until you get the rpm up there. HOW LONG DID IT TAKE COMPARED TO UPSHIFTS? On the car I drove yesterday, the delay was dismal on coasting downshifts. But forgot to try it on downshifts under power (for passing). On coasting downshifts, the 'rev matching' was pathetic, at least on this non-perf-pack car. But that's exactly what I expected of a torque-converter (TC) automatic tranny. Guess Lexus wanted to simulate a DCT tranny, but I'd MUCH rather get quick downshifts than a half-a$$ rev-matching all day long. Curious if perf pack cars have less of a delay. And also curious if the delay is less among the modes. Hope somebody can answer that for me. If at least the downshifts under power are quick (even without a throttle blip), there's hope I might like this car as it is.

2. Assuming the tranny delay is still there in perf pack cars even in sport+ mode, Does anybody know if the tranny logic can be reprogrammed by a dealer to switch from lethargic rev-matched downshifts to quick non-rev-matched ones? That'd be the lesser of the evils for me. The tranny obviously only locks the converter (2-8) on upshifts, which are acceptably quick even for me. But releasing line pressure on the TC to allow engine to rev-match, then reapply pressure again obviously takes too freaking long on a conventional TC planetary-gear tranny. At least Mercedes replaced the TC with a wet-clutch pack in their planetary-gear tranny, making it less of a handicap against much quicker DCTs. By the way, the downshift delay yesterday was about ONE second, regardless of driving mode.

3. The fake engine noise was downright annoying to me, and it comes in 2 flavors: the low-frequency drone that starts at around 2.8K rpm. And the annoyingly loud and artificial noise that comes all of a sudden right at 4K rpm. And yes, I HATE intake noise. Much rather hear at the mechanical music of an engine, even if more subdued. And THAT's exactly what you supposedly get (according to Carlos Lago, a well-known magazine tester I don't particularly like ). One of them, I suppose the 4K-rpm one, comes courtesy of an intake trumpet with a vacuum actuator that takes all of a minute to disconnect and plug with a golf tee. Has anybody here done that? If not, would you be willing to do it for me, and report which of the 2 noises went away (or both, hopefully), and how you liked it ? It takes another minute to reverse, if wanted. I'd greatly appreciate that . Finally on this subject, the other noise is probably driven by the speakers, a la BMW. And a dealer tech said there was a way to disable it by the owner. Is that the case? Didn't have a chance to mess with the settings.

I don't want to make another expensive car-purchase mistake folks. If this car had a DCT tranny and no fake engine noises, I'd be driving one right now, since I can basically do an even exchange for the GTR (I'd be losing 30 grand in a year, but at least no more cash outlay). Since I can't drive a perf-pack car, at least for now, I'm relying on your valuable input. Another consideration is we're so late in the model year, and this is the first year of the RC-F, I'm considering waiting for 2016s, to hopefully fix some of the annoyances and little issues with first-year cars. I could also just fix the seat issue on my GTR, and add additional insulation to fix my main gripes with the car. All comments welcome folks. Thank you again for all the super help I've gotten so far .

DrRick

i've never heard of ANY GTR being too soft or having too much body roll.

why are you on the highway going 6th gear at 4k rpm? how fast are you going? 70 in 6th is only 2500rpm. and you CAN turn off VDC...the 3rd toggle switch to the right...but launching with it off voids the warranty. why would they have a button to disable it if you could never use it? you can turn VDC off at the track...road courses...and slide the car around all you want.

sounds like you need to take another test drive in the GTR with a more knowledgable dealer. because your past experience just doesnt make sense...

no offense...but those are some pretty derogatory things to say about a car you only test drove when you dont have the info right about a car that you own. forgive me if im misunderstanding.

JCtx

No wonder nobody likes you here man. You're telling me I don't know nothing about my car, when you're the one who doesn't know crap? Are you in high-school? Geez. FYI, 2015 GTRs were softened up on the suspension (both in spring rate and shock damping), to make it more of a GT car, along with supposedly better insulation (no noticeabale difference). Nissan didn't get that right. And the VDC button is there in case you need to get unstuck, as per the owner's manual. And if you exceed 5 mph, it sends a code to the ECU, which voids your powertrain warranty. If you had bought a new one you'd know, because you need to sign a form. Don't bother responding and making an even bigger fool out of yourself. You're in my ignored list now.

05RollaXRS

He is correct. In recent years, Nissan went for the two-pronged approach. NISMO GTR for track capabilities as priority while the standard GTR was softened up for better daily drivability and more GT attributes. It was a strategy to improve mass appeal and hence the poor sales.

DrRick

I know that it was softened up. I get that. But it was a brick, before. I've still never heard anyone call it 'too soft' or say it had 'too much body roll'. That was my only point...

RNM GS3

Perf pack will not solve the issues you have.
I think M4 may be the better car for you as it has:
1) DCT - one of the best
2) Adjustable suspension
3) Quiet ride and limited engine noise unless you really get on it or put in M mode.

RCF is not as refined nor as athletic but it has more sense of occasion, its louder, and more raw.....I personally like it better.

JCtx

Indeed. Nobody knows exactly what was changed and how much, but my guess is Nissan haphazardly just softened the springs and shocks without proper physical testing (R35 is on its way out). The car feels disjointed (for lack of a better word) when pushed, regardless of shock setting. Hard to explain, but it's not a confidence-inspiring feel, even though I learned how to extract maximum performance out of it. And I'm far from the only one who thinks that. And it simply has too much body-roll, and at that point understeer takes hold, since you just can't throttle-steer this car, due to its AWD system and intrusive TC. Up to 8/10s, it's actually easy to drive fast; very forgiving (and boring, if you know what you're doing). But beyond that, it's a disjointed mess; just not fun. Was expecting to at least get stiffer sways, but wasn't the case. This car is very similar to the SC430: hard ride, but lots of body roll. The worst of both worlds IMO. The suspension needs to be tuned as a complete system, and it's not that easy. If I was to keep it, I'd start with both sways, and hope it ends there, to quell the body-roll. And also insulate the cabin completely (removing everything) to actually make it more GT, fix the seats for an inch more hiproom, and change the tires to MPSSs. Anyway, I'm happy to report here that there're only 2 cars that IMO have been tuned perfectly for their purpose, and neither has adjustable suspension: The Cayman GTS (sport suspension -no PASM), and the RC-F. Tuned like that, there's no need for adjustable suspension. I was mighty impressed with the RC-F. Never imagined that pig would handle like it does... AND feel good doing it. It handles better than my GTR, and it's almost 200 lbs heavier. Hardly any body-roll, very neutral handling, and amazing feel. Was fishtailing controllably with the utmost smoothness (at the urging of the salesman, mind you. And it was a used car,or wouldn't have done it even if asked out of respect of new machinery). And was driving the car for the first time. The same feeling I get with Caymans with sport suspension. A hell of an accomplishment for Lexus. Unfortunately, can't say the same about its tranny. Hope the performance pack solves the lethargic downshifts in manual mode some... at least under power, so the car is not dangerous in passing situations.

Hey, have another question for the masses: If you're, let's say in 8th gear at 50 mph in manual mode, and want maximum acceleration right away, can you just keep the left paddle depressed for a second or so with the throttle mashed, and does the tranny downshift to the lowest possible gear? Or do you have to actually click the paddle repeatedly until it double-beeps? Thx.

EthanV

Hi there, the performance pack is not gonna make any different to the tranny shifting delay. The performance pack will include carbon fiber roof, wing and torque vectoring differential(TVD). The TVD will help you on corner thats it. Since you are get used with the DCT, the 8 speeds sport direct shift from Lexus is slower than DCT for sure. You can do some research on the 8speeds of Lexus. Yes you will have to keep tap the paddle to down shift to the gear that you want so 8th to 4th you have to tap four times. If you are not happy about the delay then sorry this car is not for you unless Lexus update the transmission on mid cycle refresh but who know. I hope I answer all your questions on the RCF.

JCtx

Yes you did Ethan, for the most part; thank you very much. Could you please tell me if the big downshift delay in manual mode when coasting (gas pedal off) also applies when under power (gas pedal mashed)? As I mentioned, could live with delayed engine-braking delays, but not when I need the power. Hope that makes sense.

Hey folks, found the opposite of what I want to do on the video below. But there's an easy way to apply constant vacuum (flap closed all the time) as well. Or could just unplug the connector, but could throw a code. Will try it both ways: flap closed all the time, and open all the time. At least open all the time doesn't sound artificial, coming on all of a sudden at 4K rpm; THAT is what I don't like. The noise that bothers me the most, however, is a drone between 2.5K to 3.5K rpm, and need to investigate what causes it. I think there's a trumpet pointing to the firewall in that case, but need to keep digging. And will scrutinize a car tomorrow, to find out for sure. For now, I give you a way to have the 4K-rpm loud intake sound all the time, for those into that . Takes a minute to do and undo. You can just try capping it with a few pieces of a plastic shopping bag, and slip the hose over it, just to try it. Then buy a proper cap (for both sides) if you do. If I find something else on the low rpm drone, will post it too. Hope this helps folks

Swacer

With your concerns, I'm wondering why you're looking at the RC-F anymore to be honest.

I would begin to say...why don't you look at something else. Did you like the power of the GT-R? Did you feel it was too much? You say you have had several V8s, why not look at other companies as well?

You say you like to shift, can you drive a stick? Why not look at a Hellcat Challenger/Charger? Unlimited power, relatively high grade stuff inside, and certainly a head turner.

If you want an auto, but still have power, why not look at a Chevy SS? I am yet to see a review that someone said the car wasn't a league above the average Chevy.

Or perhaps a new CTS-V? If you want something smaller, why not an ATS-V? You could look at a coupe or sedan depending on what your life situation holds for you.

Or you could sit on the GT-R for another year or two (since your hard depreciation has already occurred), and wait on the Acura NSX.

I personally hate the german brands, so you won't see me suggesting anything from them.

Personally, I would avoid DCT, as while they may be great at first, the repair bills on them are substantial.

I'll be honest, I do not see Toyota retuning the transmission. The transmission was pulled from the IS-F, and from my understanding, not much has changed. You're never going to have a retuning option, so what setting you have, are what you're going to have at least till a refresh in 2019ish. I would consider a different company.

F1nALMSfan

As much as I really love this car, if you’re concerns with it are going to be the transmission, and to a lesser degree the intake noise, then as stated above, maybe this car will be too much of a compromise for you.

I my opinion, not considering the weight of the car, the transmission is the biggest detriment of the car. While in full auto mode, in sport +, the car does a great job of being in the right gear and downshifting at the right time. I really don’t have issues here at all. But like yourself, I was always a manual transmission guy, and really love being in control of the shifting. I feel though that the manual shifting is like Jekyll and Hyde.

While driving the car hard, sport + and manual mode, I feel the transmission does a pretty good job. Single gear downshifts with a proper amount of throttle blip are fairly immediate and work well, and really in this type of driving, you rarely need to downshift multiple gears. Upshift at redline to the next gear also works great and allows for a really uninterrupted delivery of power. So full out driving, I am happy with.

Now the more normal occurrence, you aren’t on the track or a canyon road, but instead are out on the street or freeway driving. Multiple gear downshifts take some time. Cruising in 8th gear, and downshifting to a gear to give torque to pass, can be a frustrating experience, especially if you are coming from a DSG. While I know it really is a matter of seconds, waiting to go from 8th to say 5 or 4 seems to take forever. This is really where I find fault in the shifting of this transmission, it just seems lazy in this scenario.

A small part of this, and one that the FI competitors don’t have, is the lack of really much torque down low; which creates that need to shift from 8 to 4 to really give you the power you are looking for.

Again, I love this car, the above are nitpicks I have which I would I think we all would love fixed, but I am a very happy owner at this point. Best of luck on your decision going forward, I am happy to give further perspective on any aspect of the car.

JCtx

Thank you for your honest opinions folks. Not interested in any American car anymore. Not into retro crap (basically eliminating all 'pony cars'), nor the equally cheap-built GMs (had 3 Corvettes, and I'm done with GM for life). Not too much into the 'big-3' Germans (BMW, Audi, MB) either. And there's no local Porsche dealer, so they're out until I move. My only 2 realistic optons right now are the RC-F or keep the GTR. Will go drive it again in a little bit, and try everything I need to try, including opening the flap all the time and closing it all the time, and see how that goes. Each car has lots of compromises and advantages, as expected. It's just a matter of deciding which one is the better car for me. Will keep you posted in the afternoon. Thanks again for all your help and comments.

RNM GS3

If you need to convince yourself to buy a certain car then its not for u.
Especially a sports car, we are not talking about minivans.

There are a lot of Great cars from the Americans, Germans, and Japanese even Korea. Nobody builds a perfect car but the build quality is good from most everyone these days. The sheer volume of great sports cars accross all manufacturers has never been higher.

If you have the money - get the new MB GT, another great choice.

JCtx

You're wrong buddy. Leave that for Jay Leno. Or if you're just looking for a single-purpose car. When you can only buy ONE such car, especially when you already own a very good one, there will ALWAYS be several compromises made; you just have to choose the least 'offensive' ones to you.

Anyway, I'm happy to report I have decided to join the Lexus family again with the RC-F. The car I drove yesterday (a different one), didn't have the low-rpm drone of the first one. The transmission lag is there, in both coasting and under power, but I can live with that. Tried the car with the intake flap open all the time, closed all the time, and stock. Stock was the best option. The salesman I tested the car with (a long-time friend) drove the crap out of it (a used 'executive' car with 5K miles, so fully broken-in), and he's a very good driver. I also did the same thing with all nannies off, sport, sport+, and expert, and was drifting like a pro right off the bat, with absolutely smooth transitions. However, I lost control on a drift from a dig when the torque converter locked up, so I now know what not to do on the streets (he he). At least not with all nannies off. We did all kinds of testing. The best mode for our level of expertise was 'expert'. It allowed the tail to be sideways about 30º before the nannies kicking in. Both expert and all nannies off show all nannies off on the dash, by the way. But with 'expert' on the dash, they intervene as mentioned above. Awesome. I also MUCH prefer paddles on the steering column, but will get used to these. And THAT is also what sold me on this car. On the GTR, can't turn traction control off without losing warranty, plus with AWD it wouldn't be nearly as fun anyway. It's a very quick car, and also very forgiving. But this RWD RC-F is just more fun to drive, even with its handicapped tranny. So there you have it. Just have to find the best way to unload my like-new GTR the best way possible. For all pactical purposes, it'll be an even exchange. Will keep you posted on what I end up with. I settled on a white/red car. Local dealer has one with every option, but it's a demo, in the showroom (everybody gets in), with 78 miles and several test drives. They obviously say it's brand new. Albuquerque has another, brand new with 11 miles and nobody has sat on it, but it has been under the elements for a month. AND it does not have the PCS/radar-cruise option. I will start a thread on that, to see if I make it a deal-breaker option or not. The ALB car is 78,625 vs 73,878, and 77K for mine. Still waiting for ELP numbers (they don't like to deal, as they're the only dealer around), but I'm not thrilled to buy a demo. And 2016s are just around the corner, so I'd be buying a year-old car. I'm thinking to wait for a 2016, probably for Nov delivery. Oh, ELP also has another 2015 coming equipped with every option, but it's black/red. The interior I want, but don't like it, AND don't want it in black. Decisions, decisions. Comments on purchase options welcome. Will keep you posted.