test-drove the new RC F and M4
12-04-14, 07:11 PM
#1
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test-drove the new RC F and M4
I recently had an opportunity to drive both the new RC F and BMW M4 and I wanted to share my impressions with those who've been, like myself, drooling and lusting over both of those cars since their announcement a few years back. I've been waiting and checking for them to come into stock for a while... To say that I was excited would be a huge understatement! I got a call about the RC F a few weeks ago to tell me that they had one available for a test drive, at last.
When I first saw the RC F on pictures I didn't much like the front end, even after seeing it on the freeway one time I thought the front was hideous. But once I went and saw it in person it slowly grew on me. It looks more menacing up-close, not as silly and enormous, and the headlights make it look more futuristic than one would expect. Overall, the car looks really mean and has a lot of presence. The quad exhaust looks more subtle than I was hoping for, not as stylish as the ISF design. The interior is just beautiful. The steering wheel is essentially the same as the 3IS, but the seats were just as good as you'd imagine after seeing the pictures. They hug you the same way as the 3IS fsport seats. They have larger side bolsters and softer headrests (the 3IS ones are like bricks...). I still think this is the best interior I've ever seen, hands down. The new digital dash display is awesome with all its fancy hi-tech graphics. Not really a fan of both digital and analog speedo clustered together like that, though.
Now, performance wise, i went in with really high expectations. From what I'd heard and read, it was supposed to be a really quick car. Some said it was just a monster... I've driven two ISF's before and was really impressed, so I thought the RCF should be even better... The car sounds really nice, not too loud, not too quiet, it reminded me of the new mustang GT when you rev it up, it's got that typical v8 rumble and exhaust crackle tones, pure muscle car stuff. I was able to take it onto the freeway to see how it cruises. Just like with the ISF, i wanted to see how it pulls in 3rd and 4th gears (around 4k rpm), as that seems most practical for daily driving. I put it into manual mode, downshifted into 4th, and it dropped the gears almost instantly unlike my 3IS. I gave it full throttle expecting something incredible. But the car didn't really pull all that hard. It definitely felt capable, but there wasn't that wow factor to it, more of a "hmm, that's pretty good", and that's not what I was really looking for in a car of this caliber, and, and it was not much different from doing the same thing in my 3IS in 4th gear. I downshifted into 3rd, and that's when it finally woke up and started to pull, but even so, still not as impressive as I was led to believe. When the windows are up, the car doesn't really sound as aggressive as one would expect from a V8. It's not any louder than my 3IS with intake and exhaust, it's just a bit deeper. And when cruising in higher gears, or even on the street, with the rpm's below 3k, there is little to no torque to play with. When it's in that low rpm range, it feels like a slug. Even the ISF felt a bit more nimble and had a better pull. The brakes were strong, with a great bite. The handling was solid, but once again, not any different from a 3IS. To sum it up, this car is definitely something one could be happy with as a daily driver, but it won't pull your hair back in any way unless your expectations are well within reason and common sense, and mine were set too high, especially when the car costs 75k+ (as equipped). To be honest, I left the dealership disappointed. I spent a long time looking at videos and pics of this car prior to driving it, but it's just not the car I'd truly connect with when there is another option available, and now onto that!
A few days go by and I'm told by a friend that there are a few m4's on the lot at a local dealership. I found the time to go check them out. Well, just like the RC F, this car was something I was drooling over for quite some time, looking at all the concept pics, inquiring about it from dealers, going to its first launch, etc. And respectively, my expectations were through the roof with this car as well. After some hesitation from the salesman about letting me drive an m4, saying how they don't want joyriders driving their cars with no intention of buying (makes sense), he finally comes back with the keys. Unlike the lexus salesman, this guy let me drive it right off the display lot in front of the building. So I start it up expecting the car to sound like a lawnmower as that's what most complaints were all about, but, on the contrary, I was shocked to learn that it did not sound anything as people were saying. It actually sounded much better than the rc f, even just starting it up. What I found interesting was how quickly it revved up when I tapped the gas and the rpms jumped to around 5k almost immediately, it reminded me of my 350z when I had a lighter flywheel and clutch installed. It's quite amazing to see that kind of thing in a car with a dual clutch gearbox that it can still rev like that. The second I drove it off the lot I noticed how responsive the gas pedal was, even in normal mode. It felt exciting and a bit intimidating as I wasn't used to that. I switched the car into sport on all settings, put it into manual mode, and was just trying to get a feel for it on the street. The car had more or less 15 miles on it at the time, and I really wanted to warm it up fully, so I kept cruising for a while with occasional tap on the gas to feel some pull. The car responded really well to the slightest input of gas, even being a turbo engine, it still has that instant torque feel that you get on the 3IS, just not as much of it. You can hear the turbos spool up in a second, and it picks up right away even at low rpm. The torque was just amazing which definitely lives up to all the hype. Even in higher gears the car just pulls so well. It's very loud on the inside, with windows up, ac on, etc, it still sounds like you're cruising with windows down next to concrete walls, all that nice sound is channeled into the cabin, and I thought that was really genius as that still is the real sound of the car, it's just not muffled like on the RC F. Many will not believe when I say this, but the car sounds way better than the rc F, in any gear, mode, throttle input, etc. it sounds much like a V8 car, very deep, lots of exhaust backfire, plus the turbo spool and the blow off valve opening sounds intoxicating when you let off the gas. It was like a 335i on crack. The steering felt really solid. The ride was quite harsh on the stiffest setting, but then I switched it to comfort and it made a huge difference and just floated over bumps. The shifts were incredible: instant and with a lot of kick on its highest setting (3 total). I tried the comfort shift setting as well, and that made the car shift seamlessly, without a kick in the back, but with just the same quickness (not sure what the point is then of the 3 different modes...). The seats are just as nice as on the RC F, plus you can adjust how much they hug you. The dash is very plain and old school, but trust me when i say this, once this car starts moving, none of that matters. It's just an angry car, perfect for those who want that extra sharpness, instant response, etc.
Overall, I have to say, I have found the perfect car for myself. Not sure if I am ever going to get one as it's not exactly affordable for most people, but it is one of those cars that leave you literally speechless. I'm not sure how much faster it would be against the RC F in a drag race, but in all practical cases, the RC F feels like a bus in comparison. Where the bmw just leaps out of that rpm hole when the boost comes in, and it comes in super early, and pulls strong all the way up sounding like an angry lion, the RC F takes its time and just feels heavy and you wanna kick it in the butt to get it moving. It doesn't feel inspiring. The bmw feels like a race car with that sharp, loud, and aggressive feel of the torque, shifting, and steering. The lexus is the perfect car for that person who's just looking for a quick and sporty coupe. But, speaking for myself, the only way I'd consider the RC F now is if the M4/M3 never existed.
When I first saw the RC F on pictures I didn't much like the front end, even after seeing it on the freeway one time I thought the front was hideous. But once I went and saw it in person it slowly grew on me. It looks more menacing up-close, not as silly and enormous, and the headlights make it look more futuristic than one would expect. Overall, the car looks really mean and has a lot of presence. The quad exhaust looks more subtle than I was hoping for, not as stylish as the ISF design. The interior is just beautiful. The steering wheel is essentially the same as the 3IS, but the seats were just as good as you'd imagine after seeing the pictures. They hug you the same way as the 3IS fsport seats. They have larger side bolsters and softer headrests (the 3IS ones are like bricks...). I still think this is the best interior I've ever seen, hands down. The new digital dash display is awesome with all its fancy hi-tech graphics. Not really a fan of both digital and analog speedo clustered together like that, though.
Now, performance wise, i went in with really high expectations. From what I'd heard and read, it was supposed to be a really quick car. Some said it was just a monster... I've driven two ISF's before and was really impressed, so I thought the RCF should be even better... The car sounds really nice, not too loud, not too quiet, it reminded me of the new mustang GT when you rev it up, it's got that typical v8 rumble and exhaust crackle tones, pure muscle car stuff. I was able to take it onto the freeway to see how it cruises. Just like with the ISF, i wanted to see how it pulls in 3rd and 4th gears (around 4k rpm), as that seems most practical for daily driving. I put it into manual mode, downshifted into 4th, and it dropped the gears almost instantly unlike my 3IS. I gave it full throttle expecting something incredible. But the car didn't really pull all that hard. It definitely felt capable, but there wasn't that wow factor to it, more of a "hmm, that's pretty good", and that's not what I was really looking for in a car of this caliber, and, and it was not much different from doing the same thing in my 3IS in 4th gear. I downshifted into 3rd, and that's when it finally woke up and started to pull, but even so, still not as impressive as I was led to believe. When the windows are up, the car doesn't really sound as aggressive as one would expect from a V8. It's not any louder than my 3IS with intake and exhaust, it's just a bit deeper. And when cruising in higher gears, or even on the street, with the rpm's below 3k, there is little to no torque to play with. When it's in that low rpm range, it feels like a slug. Even the ISF felt a bit more nimble and had a better pull. The brakes were strong, with a great bite. The handling was solid, but once again, not any different from a 3IS. To sum it up, this car is definitely something one could be happy with as a daily driver, but it won't pull your hair back in any way unless your expectations are well within reason and common sense, and mine were set too high, especially when the car costs 75k+ (as equipped). To be honest, I left the dealership disappointed. I spent a long time looking at videos and pics of this car prior to driving it, but it's just not the car I'd truly connect with when there is another option available, and now onto that!
A few days go by and I'm told by a friend that there are a few m4's on the lot at a local dealership. I found the time to go check them out. Well, just like the RC F, this car was something I was drooling over for quite some time, looking at all the concept pics, inquiring about it from dealers, going to its first launch, etc. And respectively, my expectations were through the roof with this car as well. After some hesitation from the salesman about letting me drive an m4, saying how they don't want joyriders driving their cars with no intention of buying (makes sense), he finally comes back with the keys. Unlike the lexus salesman, this guy let me drive it right off the display lot in front of the building. So I start it up expecting the car to sound like a lawnmower as that's what most complaints were all about, but, on the contrary, I was shocked to learn that it did not sound anything as people were saying. It actually sounded much better than the rc f, even just starting it up. What I found interesting was how quickly it revved up when I tapped the gas and the rpms jumped to around 5k almost immediately, it reminded me of my 350z when I had a lighter flywheel and clutch installed. It's quite amazing to see that kind of thing in a car with a dual clutch gearbox that it can still rev like that. The second I drove it off the lot I noticed how responsive the gas pedal was, even in normal mode. It felt exciting and a bit intimidating as I wasn't used to that. I switched the car into sport on all settings, put it into manual mode, and was just trying to get a feel for it on the street. The car had more or less 15 miles on it at the time, and I really wanted to warm it up fully, so I kept cruising for a while with occasional tap on the gas to feel some pull. The car responded really well to the slightest input of gas, even being a turbo engine, it still has that instant torque feel that you get on the 3IS, just not as much of it. You can hear the turbos spool up in a second, and it picks up right away even at low rpm. The torque was just amazing which definitely lives up to all the hype. Even in higher gears the car just pulls so well. It's very loud on the inside, with windows up, ac on, etc, it still sounds like you're cruising with windows down next to concrete walls, all that nice sound is channeled into the cabin, and I thought that was really genius as that still is the real sound of the car, it's just not muffled like on the RC F. Many will not believe when I say this, but the car sounds way better than the rc F, in any gear, mode, throttle input, etc. it sounds much like a V8 car, very deep, lots of exhaust backfire, plus the turbo spool and the blow off valve opening sounds intoxicating when you let off the gas. It was like a 335i on crack. The steering felt really solid. The ride was quite harsh on the stiffest setting, but then I switched it to comfort and it made a huge difference and just floated over bumps. The shifts were incredible: instant and with a lot of kick on its highest setting (3 total). I tried the comfort shift setting as well, and that made the car shift seamlessly, without a kick in the back, but with just the same quickness (not sure what the point is then of the 3 different modes...). The seats are just as nice as on the RC F, plus you can adjust how much they hug you. The dash is very plain and old school, but trust me when i say this, once this car starts moving, none of that matters. It's just an angry car, perfect for those who want that extra sharpness, instant response, etc.
Overall, I have to say, I have found the perfect car for myself. Not sure if I am ever going to get one as it's not exactly affordable for most people, but it is one of those cars that leave you literally speechless. I'm not sure how much faster it would be against the RC F in a drag race, but in all practical cases, the RC F feels like a bus in comparison. Where the bmw just leaps out of that rpm hole when the boost comes in, and it comes in super early, and pulls strong all the way up sounding like an angry lion, the RC F takes its time and just feels heavy and you wanna kick it in the butt to get it moving. It doesn't feel inspiring. The bmw feels like a race car with that sharp, loud, and aggressive feel of the torque, shifting, and steering. The lexus is the perfect car for that person who's just looking for a quick and sporty coupe. But, speaking for myself, the only way I'd consider the RC F now is if the M4/M3 never existed.
12-05-14, 04:50 AM
#5
Lexus Test Driver
Thats typically what everyone is saying between the 2 cars. The RC-F is a V8, fat pig, with poor gearing, and loads of underwhelmingness. The M4 on the other hand, had the spirited BMW drive, and with the boosted V6, will run laps around the RC-F.
Lexus wanted to create a coupe, and honestly, I think they failed. Especially considering the price point, 467hp is underwhelming at 4000lbs. For $70k, you can have so much more than Lexus is willing to offer. Plus, they simply can't get around the uglyness that is that front end. I really hope someone was fired for that suggestion.
The list of cars you can get for $70k is outstanding. Heck, for $70k, I can put a ZL1 in my driveway, and do about 12k worth the work to it, and put down close to 800rwhp, while providing about 75% of the luxury. Now of course, you can write this argument off if you're only concerned on what badging you have.....smh
Now, on the other hand, the BMW is nice up front, but the maintenance on it will be a nightmare as time goes on. I have no interest in the german brands because the reliability isn't there.
In regards to this comparison though, M4 >>>>> RC-F
Lexus wanted to create a coupe, and honestly, I think they failed. Especially considering the price point, 467hp is underwhelming at 4000lbs. For $70k, you can have so much more than Lexus is willing to offer. Plus, they simply can't get around the uglyness that is that front end. I really hope someone was fired for that suggestion.
The list of cars you can get for $70k is outstanding. Heck, for $70k, I can put a ZL1 in my driveway, and do about 12k worth the work to it, and put down close to 800rwhp, while providing about 75% of the luxury. Now of course, you can write this argument off if you're only concerned on what badging you have.....smh
Now, on the other hand, the BMW is nice up front, but the maintenance on it will be a nightmare as time goes on. I have no interest in the german brands because the reliability isn't there.
In regards to this comparison though, M4 >>>>> RC-F
12-05-14, 05:28 AM
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M4 is an awesome car I had E92M3 and i think the M4 is a better and more refined vehicle although it has twin turbo inline six
After reading this it makes me wanna take out my M4 out fot a ride I recently got some sort of exhaust can TSB done on my M4 and since then the exhaust note has gotten even louder
Too bad it has been raining here in so cal so i have been using my Is250 hopefully tomorrow ill be able to take my M4 out
After reading this it makes me wanna take out my M4 out fot a ride I recently got some sort of exhaust can TSB done on my M4 and since then the exhaust note has gotten even louder
Too bad it has been raining here in so cal so i have been using my Is250 hopefully tomorrow ill be able to take my M4 out
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12-05-14, 08:41 AM
#8
Lexus Test Driver
Even in a straight line, the RC-F matched the M3 with a 0-60 mph in 3.9 seconds and was only off by 3/10ths in the 1/4 mile in the R&T PCOTY. Around the track, RC-F was only a few tenths slower both in the R&T PCOTY and MT Streets of willow.
It is quite ridiculous people making such ludicrous assertions based on what the "butt dyno" tells them.
RC-F has a very flat torque curve so the acceleration is not felt like the M4 where there is turbo lag for a couple of split seconds and then sudden slam of torque. Most of the journalists have preferred the RC-F engine over the M4 engine because of its sound and response.
12-05-14, 09:09 AM
#9
Road & Track's PCOTY road test guy contacted me yesterday.
As I thought, they did not drive the the RC-F with the torsen. They drove the yet to be delivered RC-F carbon with the TVD to produce the 3.9 0-60 time.
This is pertinent to our discussion on the 3.9 run done by R&T and published on the web. The words below are verbatim:
"We use a GPS based data acquisition system called VBOX to record all of our data and then correct for weather conditions. It was generally cool and cloudy weather. Since the RC F runs an eight-speed automatic, best runs come from a straight forward launch procedure: hold the brake for a moment to build revs, release and go. Very easy and repeatable. It was a standstill start, and yes, that’s how we do it.
We only use estimates when we our unable to test ourselves, but official test results come from us. (PCOTY--All You Need to Know)
And no, we run one long acceleration run that includes the time to reach 60mph all the way through the 1/4 mile.
Our RC F came with the Carbon package, which includes the Torque Vectoring Differential.
Great car!"
"The RC-F was one of the most pleasant surprises of that PCOTY group for me. Endlessly comfortable—could daily-drive it forever—but wields Thor's hammer on demand."
He also said the time was EASILY repeatable. So, we just need to get the facts straight as a group.
12-05-14, 10:16 AM
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M4 is hands down a better sports car than RCF. I am not blaming Lexus for giving us RCF though. In fact I appreciate a lot what Lexus has done. It is a very bold move and they deserve a credit for that. BMW, however, is the company that has been producing the sports cars for decades. This company is known for producing the driver's cars. So I would think it is ok to admit that.
Last edited by salvadorik; 12-05-14 at 10:35 AM.
12-05-14, 10:22 AM
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TheShaddix - buddy, thanks for your honest review. I would give more consideration to this kinda review than what generally biased and corrupt journalist offer. Not saying all journalists are corrupt but a lot of times their reviews are pre-staged by the manufacturer.
Don't put this on RCFs forum or else you shall be banned from CL. lol jk
Don't put this on RCFs forum or else you shall be banned from CL. lol jk
12-05-14, 10:35 AM
#14
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Some people may, indeed, like the RCF more. After driving both, for me, there is no more competition between the two. I was really leaning towards the lexus due to the brand and its reliability, and I really like my 3IS, plus the cool and modern interior, but all that was my opinion until I drove the M4. I'm not biased in any way towards one or the other. I go for the car that feels best in practical ways: freeway pulls in higher gears without having to downshift; street cruising and how it feels on torque and throttle inputs, etc. And since I'd be leasing one anyway, reliability in the long term isn't much of a concern. And from what I've heard, the previous M3 was quite reliable.
I just wanted to share my opinion because I'm really glad I got to drive both of these cars that I've really been lusting over for so long. The experience was very special in both cars, for sure, but one just stood well above the other in the end. But I'll say this much, if I had an RC F and couldn't have an M4, I'd be just fine! I'd modify it to my taste with some wheels, drop, and exhaust, and be happy for sure. I'd even settle for an ISF...
I do not care about the track times. You have to take into account that most people will never take these cars to the track. And for sure, once you rev the hell out of the RC F, it does make similar power, but the bmw does the same at 2k rpm without any effort, you press the pedal in any gear, wait a second or so, and it just jumps out of the hole. And in most real world scenarios that is the recipe for a great car - one that can get up and go without you looking like an idiot revving it in lower gears. That is, like stated above, the nature of turbo cars. But nothing was stopping lexus from going the same route. They opted out for a V8 once again when everyone is going forced induction, and the car is way too heavy when it has no reason to be. The m4 weighs around 400lbs less, give or take, but they look identical in size. So as a consumer, you choose whichever does best in real world situations. I'd never take either of these to the track, as to me it would mean abusing the crap out of them, if done properly, and that's not something I want to do to a car I want to take care of. I'd be more than happy daily driving one or the other. To me it's always been about that low end torque. The RC F has none of that for some reason.
And for the comment about the sound on the outside, I have heard the car standing next to it, it sounds just as amazing as when you drive it. It idles nicely with a V8 tone to it. There is no E92 M3 tin can sound in the exhaust that I was never a fan of, it's just a deep and solid tone. Maybe the RC F sounds louder on the outside, and I doubt that, but when you actually drive both cars, the sound is more lively in the bmw, and it doesn't matter how they achieved that, it's just a fact. It's louder, it's intoxicating, and the turbo spool and bov sounds are just perfect. The lexus, with the windows up, sounds like a 3IS with a nice intake and exhaust, deep and loud and screaming on top end. There isn't much more to it. And with its weight and low torque numbers, it honestly is not much faster than an IS 350. Bottom line is, anyone who cares about these two cars should test-drive them and draw their own conclusions.
I just wanted to share my opinion because I'm really glad I got to drive both of these cars that I've really been lusting over for so long. The experience was very special in both cars, for sure, but one just stood well above the other in the end. But I'll say this much, if I had an RC F and couldn't have an M4, I'd be just fine! I'd modify it to my taste with some wheels, drop, and exhaust, and be happy for sure. I'd even settle for an ISF...
I do not care about the track times. You have to take into account that most people will never take these cars to the track. And for sure, once you rev the hell out of the RC F, it does make similar power, but the bmw does the same at 2k rpm without any effort, you press the pedal in any gear, wait a second or so, and it just jumps out of the hole. And in most real world scenarios that is the recipe for a great car - one that can get up and go without you looking like an idiot revving it in lower gears. That is, like stated above, the nature of turbo cars. But nothing was stopping lexus from going the same route. They opted out for a V8 once again when everyone is going forced induction, and the car is way too heavy when it has no reason to be. The m4 weighs around 400lbs less, give or take, but they look identical in size. So as a consumer, you choose whichever does best in real world situations. I'd never take either of these to the track, as to me it would mean abusing the crap out of them, if done properly, and that's not something I want to do to a car I want to take care of. I'd be more than happy daily driving one or the other. To me it's always been about that low end torque. The RC F has none of that for some reason.
And for the comment about the sound on the outside, I have heard the car standing next to it, it sounds just as amazing as when you drive it. It idles nicely with a V8 tone to it. There is no E92 M3 tin can sound in the exhaust that I was never a fan of, it's just a deep and solid tone. Maybe the RC F sounds louder on the outside, and I doubt that, but when you actually drive both cars, the sound is more lively in the bmw, and it doesn't matter how they achieved that, it's just a fact. It's louder, it's intoxicating, and the turbo spool and bov sounds are just perfect. The lexus, with the windows up, sounds like a 3IS with a nice intake and exhaust, deep and loud and screaming on top end. There isn't much more to it. And with its weight and low torque numbers, it honestly is not much faster than an IS 350. Bottom line is, anyone who cares about these two cars should test-drive them and draw their own conclusions.